[krude]

Had the chance to try the Ferrum Oor with Hypsos today. I tried the stack with abyss 1266 using Stock cable.I also tried the Ferrum For only with Hypsos. I just want to let people know that the Ferrum stack needs to work as a stack as to get its best sound quality. With the Hypsos, bass was deeper and sound stage improved. I had it on high gain and volume at about 11 to 12 o'clock when using with stack.

After that I took my Abyss 1266 and tried the Violectric V550 (however at another shop as no shop in Hk have both). With the Violectric V550, the gain was like set to zero and volume needed to be about 1 o'clock as to drive the abyss to a decent volume. I would say the Ferrum stack or Violectric V550 does the job in driving the abyss to get that soundstage and the bass. I asked the person to change the gain a higher level (I think 18 - might be not correct, he said there is still another level). Anyway with that gain the level was about 9 to 10 o'clock.

Having a difficult time on deciding which one to go for. If Ferrum then it needs to be stack as to get the best sound (I did think about buying the Oor only, however cannot now as just tried it). I would say they both on Par (stack or v550) and I think there is still more potential from the V550 volume as I was was only at 10 on the volume dial.

Price is another factor, Ferrum stack is like 3190 USD and the V550 is like 2300USD.

Both machine look nice and compact. I will also get a Dac too, the denafrips ares2

Currently have the Singer Sa1 and not a match for the abyss at all. So looking for an Amp that could cover me for a few years.

Any recommendations as will be using it to drive abyss and maybe other headphones down the road like Utopia or Abyss. Thanks and stay safe

Pro tip, I'm pretty sure both are class a, and this means that you get most SQ by dropping the gain low (0 for Oor) and cranking the volume a bit higher. It gives full power at all times which is then attenuated. I think same would be true for V550 as it is true for Soloist GT as well (using it with TC and Susvara on low gain).

 

[prismstorm]

Once again, I don't think the Susvara lacks bass. It's just softer than Audeze / Focal / Abyss. Drums don't sound as real and impactful, and it is by a wide margin. Even with EQ. That is my one and only argument.

So do you keep it just for certain genres and switch to Audeze / Focal / Abyss when anything with bass is being played? I have found Susvara's tuning is great for instrumental / classical / jazz, but makes almost everything else flat, soft, emotionless, and un-engaging.

That's not the problem. It's the opposite. For certain music, when it does require impact, Susvara does not deliver enough of it relative to 1266TC and Utopia. That's the point.

Agreed, it's not delivering world class slam for world class price, even after the chain and power has been improved to match it. I guess it's just the nature of it, and am surprised it gained such a favourable reputation even with this level of bass performance.

@prismstorm What song were you listening to when you posted the picture of your volume ? I'm willing to bet nothing is wrong in your setup, but rather reading all of the impressions has lead to unrealistic expectations. Also people have noted that the susvara has good bass, but its softer, but then you read with the right "synergy" it can be unlocked ! "wow this is what its supposed to sound like".....well I guess you're hearing exactly that now... So even with the "right" gear it still soft. I've noted users saying that this is STILL the case even with something like the AHB2 - "proper" amplification.....

To me, even on my peasant gear the susvara lines up with what I have been reading and expecting.. its only relatively softer compared to other headphones all things equal, but I would say this is the nature of the driver regardless of "proper" amplification, IMO.

I was curious about the dac/amp combo, but now I'm not so sure. What do you think ?

I forgot what song I was playing at that time, but I could tell you that I constantly had to crank the volume knob on the Ferrum OOR in high gain (+dB) to 3 o'clock because everything was so inaudible. Nothing stands out and everything is hiding in the back, vocals in particular are extremely 'soft-spoken' and not prominent or present enough, thus everything that's not pure piano / orchestral / jazz simply doesn't work. Piano fares better because piano tracks rarely need 'bass slam' and does not involve 'engaging vocals'. But even in well recorded jazz tracks, the saxophone and guitars would sound good, but the vocals were always too 'subtle' to bring out the emotions, and not in a good way.

Yes that was my impression. I watched YouTube reviews that praised the Ferrum OOR to be among the top combination with the Susvara. I also read all the impressions in this thread, and expected this stack was the 'cure' that my Susvara needed to unleash its full potential, 'find' its lack of bass, and sound tremendously better. Reality is that it did improve against the Jotenheim 2 I was using before, but it's also several time the price, and it was nowhere near the level of power I thought it would be, since I'm always in high gain and the volume is near maxed-out, not much headroom left. Everything sounds very natural, open, transparent and clear, but it's far from emotional or engaging, like how a LCD-4Z sounds.

My current combo is Bifrost 2 balanced into Ferrum OOR powered by the HYPSOS. I am running the Susvara via Silver Dragon cable out of the OOR's XLR output in high gain.

 

[MatW]

So do you keep it just for certain genres and switch to Audeze / Focal / Abyss when anything with bass is being played? I have found Susvara's tuning is great for instrumental / classical / jazz, but makes almost everything else flat, soft, emotionless, and un-engaging.

Agreed, it's not delivering world class slam for world class price, even after the chain and power has been improved to match it. I guess it's just the nature of it, and am surprised it gained such a favourable reputation even with this level of bass performance.

I forgot what song I was playing at that time, but I could tell you that I constantly had to crank the volume knob on the Ferrum OOR in high gain (+dB) to 3 o'clock because everything was so inaudible. Nothing stands out and everything is hiding in the back, vocals in particular are extremely 'soft-spoken' and not prominent or present enough, thus everything that's not pure piano / orchestral / jazz simply doesn't work. Piano fares better because piano tracks rarely need 'bass slam' and does not involve 'engaging vocals'. But even in well recorded jazz tracks, the saxophone and guitars would sound good, but the vocals were always too 'subtle' to bring out the emotions, and not in a good way.

Yes that was my impression. I watched YouTube reviews that praised the Ferrum OOR to be among the top combination with the Susvara. I also read all the impressions in this thread, and expected this stack was the 'cure' that my Susvara needed to unleash its full potential, 'find' its lack of bass, and sound tremendously better. Reality is that it did improve against the Jotenheim 2 I was using before, but it's also several time the price, and it was nowhere near the level of power I thought it would be, since I'm always in high gain and the volume is near maxed-out, not much headroom left. Everything sounds very natural, open, transparent and clear, but it's far from emotional or engaging, like how a LCD-4Z sounds.

My current combo is Bifrost 2 balanced into Ferrum OOR powered by the HYPSOS. I am running the Susvara via Silver Dragon cable out of the OOR's XLR output in high gain.

The Bifrost 2 output voltage is 4V. Having a DAC that puts out a higher voltage (my DACs are ~6V) helps a lot with the volume headroom on the OOR.

To be clear, this won’t solve what you perceive to be a lack of bass. For that you should check out a TC. And either sell the Susvara or keep it for certain genres, as you said.

 

[krude]

So do you keep it just for certain genres and switch to Audeze / Focal / Abyss when anything with bass is being played? I have found Susvara's tuning is great for instrumental / classical / jazz, but makes almost everything else flat, soft, emotionless, and un-engaging.

Agreed, it's not delivering world class slam for world class price, even after the chain and power has been improved to match it. I guess it's just the nature of it, and am surprised it gained such a favourable reputation even with this level of bass performance.

I forgot what song I was playing at that time, but I could tell you that I constantly had to crank the volume knob on the Ferrum OOR in high gain (+dB) to 3 o'clock because everything was so inaudible. Nothing stands out and everything is hiding in the back, vocals in particular are extremely 'soft-spoken' and not prominent or present enough, thus everything that's not pure piano / orchestral / jazz simply doesn't work. Piano fares better because piano tracks rarely need 'bass slam' and does not involve 'engaging vocals'. But even in well recorded jazz tracks, the saxophone and guitars would sound good, but the vocals were always too 'subtle' to bring out the emotions, and not in a good way.

Yes that was my impression. I watched YouTube reviews that praised the Ferrum OOR to be among the top combination with the Susvara. I also read all the impressions in this thread, and expected this stack was the 'cure' that my Susvara needed to unleash its full potential, 'find' its lack of bass, and sound tremendously better. Reality is that it did improve against the Jotenheim 2 I was using before, but it's also several time the price, and it was nowhere near the level of power I thought it would be, since I'm always in high gain and the volume is near maxed-out, not much headroom left. Everything sounds very natural, open, transparent and clear, but it's far from emotional or engaging, like how a LCD-4Z sounds.

My current combo is Bifrost 2 balanced into Ferrum OOR powered by the HYPSOS. I am running the Susvara via Silver Dragon cable out of the OOR's XLR output in high gain.

I should really ignore it at this point bc you clearly ignore half of the advice you're given and you haven't even replied to a pm, but one last shot.

I turned down output from my DAC (May at 5.8v balanced) to 50%, so I'm getting less than 3V from it, you should be getting 4v. On high gain I still get almost deafening volume at 12 oclock and 2 oclock 0 gain. Also with well recorded bass heavy tracks I get decent sub action without any EQ.

What do you use as source? I asked that a few times and got no answer, but do you get 0db out from your digital? Are you sure your DAC is working as expected? Are you sure your Susvara is not faulty? It looks to me like something is fundamentally wrong in your setup. Did you buy Susvara new btw?

 

[LarsMan]

I should really ignore it at this point bc you clearly ignore half of the advice you're given and you haven't even replied to a pm, but one last shot.

I turned down output from my DAC (May at 5.8v balanced) to 50%, so I'm getting less than 3V from it, you should be getting 4v. On high gain I still get almost deafening volume at 12 oclock and 2 oclock 0 gain. Also with well recorded bass heavy tracks I get decent sub action without any EQ.

What do you use as source? I asked that a few times and got no answer, but do you get 0db out from your digital? Are you sure your DAC is working as expected? Are you sure your Susvara is not faulty? It looks to me like something is fundamentally wrong in your setup. Did you buy Susvara new btw?

How do you turn down the balanced output on the Holo May?

 

[krude]

How do you turn down the balanced output on the Holo May?

I set digital volume to 50%

 

[LarsMan]

Set set digital volume to 50%

I don't see any kind of volume control on my Holo May DAC. Are you talking about the Hypsos?

 

[krude]

I don't see any kind of volume control on my Holo May DAC. Are you talking about the Hypsos?

I mean digital out from my source aka macbook. May itself indeed does not have volume built in.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

Agreed, it's not delivering world class slam for world class price, even after the chain and power has been improved to match it. I guess it's just the nature of it, and am surprised it gained such a favourable reputation even with this level of bass performance.

That's because, at least for me, not all of my music requires world class slam. Most of the Classical music I listen to, for example, does not require it. Vocals do not require it. Classical and acoustic guitar do not require it. Then, the other attributes of the Susvara come into play and it is so good that I can easily get lost in the musical bliss and the Susvara is better than any other headphone I''ve heard. If I am listening to Dirty DIana by Michael Jackson, I want the 1266TC with the WA33.

 

[LarsMan]

I mean digital out from my source aka macbook. May itself indeed does not have volume built in.

Ah HAH!!! Thank you, Krude - I've just started using that MacBook as my source, and I was not very familiar with it. Really appreciate your suggestions!

 

[Jonathan Crouch]

So do you keep it just for certain genres and switch to Audeze / Focal / Abyss when anything with bass is being played? I have found Susvara's tuning is great for instrumental / classical / jazz, but makes almost everything else flat, soft, emotionless, and un-engaging.

Agreed, it's not delivering world class slam for world class price, even after the chain and power has been improved to match it. I guess it's just the nature of it, and am surprised it gained such a favourable reputation even with this level of bass performance.

I forgot what song I was playing at that time, but I could tell you that I constantly had to crank the volume knob on the Ferrum OOR in high gain (+dB) to 3 o'clock because everything was so inaudible. Nothing stands out and everything is hiding in the back, vocals in particular are extremely 'soft-spoken' and not prominent or present enough, thus everything that's not pure piano / orchestral / jazz simply doesn't work. Piano fares better because piano tracks rarely need 'bass slam' and does not involve 'engaging vocals'. But even in well recorded jazz tracks, the saxophone and guitars would sound good, but the vocals were always too 'subtle' to bring out the emotions, and not in a good way.

Yes that was my impression. I watched YouTube reviews that praised the Ferrum OOR to be among the top combination with the Susvara. I also read all the impressions in this thread, and expected this stack was the 'cure' that my Susvara needed to unleash its full potential, 'find' its lack of bass, and sound tremendously better. Reality is that it did improve against the Jotenheim 2 I was using before, but it's also several time the price, and it was nowhere near the level of power I thought it would be, since I'm always in high gain and the volume is near maxed-out, not much headroom left. Everything sounds very natural, open, transparent and clear, but it's far from emotional or engaging, like how a LCD-4Z sounds.

My current combo is Bifrost 2 balanced into Ferrum OOR powered by the HYPSOS. I am running the Susvara via Silver Dragon cable out of the OOR's XLR output in high gain.

After getting my own Susvara I was under the impression they tuned it not to slam as hard as other headphones or at least it feels like they tried to make the FR as flat as possible. Not that it’s a bad thing personally I prefer it for a lot of things.

I do want to get a 1266 in the distant future but I’m completely satisfied with the performance of the Susvara.

The real question is has anyone here actually used it on the EF1000 the amp that was designed for it? I’ve heard it sounds different, but given the EF1000’s design I wouldn’t know what to expect myself.

 

[jlbrach]

to me the susvara is a fantastic all around listen...to me the bass is excellent and pretty much everything is well staged...there are tons of HP's out there and if "slam" however we define it is your thing there are several HP's I would suggest are better for you

 

[SalR406]

The real question is has anyone here actually used it on the EF1000 the amp that was designed for it? I’ve heard it sounds different, but given the EF1000’s design I wouldn’t know what to expect myself.

I just heard the Susvara/EF1000 combination at the CanJam NYC show last weekend. That amp is difficult to find in-person for an audition, so I appreciated the rare opportunity. The EF1000 comes in a two-piece chassis, it's physically very large (and deep) for a headphone amp, and it runs hot. So, you need the desk space or rack space to install it, plus the means to meet its very high price.

I thought the sonic performance was truly outstanding. I'm not very adept at using audiophile terminology to accurately describe what I heard. I would say it was definitely in my top-3 setups at the show. It's easy to become completely immersed in the music - crystal clear airy treble, well-controlled bass, and beautiful mids. The Susvara/EF1000 combination at the HIFIMAN table was my first audition after arriving at the show on Saturday morning. I liked it so much, I tried the same combination again at the Bloom Audio table later in the afternoon. Great stuff. I really enjoyed it.

 

[801evan]

Reviewer getting sub-bass. Speak amp not required. Actually, seeing the responses of speak amp owners, you definitely won't get sub bass with speaker amps.

 

[krude]

Reviewer getting sub-bass. Speak amp not required. Actually, seeing the responses of speak amp owners, you definitely won't get sub bass with speaker amps.

Yeah I did some testing yesterday, bass heavy tracks do get decent sub bass on Susvara + Oor without EQ. It's not TC sub, but then Susvara is not TC, that has been discussed. You get all of the notes, all the way to 20Hz. Did a sine sweep tests 20Khz to 20Hz and it actually all the way to 20Hz.

As for the speaker amp situation, I've eluded to that in one of the posts before. You can get a speaker amp that will not be linear when it deals with higher impedance loads (speaker amps are designed for max 8ohms), so you might be getting a bass lift (effectively same as EQ just done accidentally by the amp iteself) when using it with 60ohms which it is not intended to be used with. It could be a nice and pleasing effect, akin to using tube amps with high output impedance, but is effectively like engaging EQ. A lot of integrates also have on board EQ (tone control) and a loudness button (v shape bass treble lift) button, which will make the sound more "spicy" but again, it's just EQ.

Power wise, assuming it would scale linearily, Oor would have 60W into 8Ohms of class a power (it's not totally pure class a afaik, but close enough, and it sounds and behaves like class a, so it is class a for me), and most totl class a speaker amps incidentally have 50W to 60W of pure class a ... that's only my conclusion, everyone needs to make their own research in the end.

All I know is I can have Susvara clean and reference, or I can add a bass shelf EQ and it shakes, rumbles and hits hard when the tracks asks it to if I want a more "in the club" feel.