[HiFiHawaii808]

Man I was close to buying the OOR Hypsos stack but now on the fence. Wish there were more comparisons against the iDSD Pro Signature aside from the one shared earlier.

No one here has heard the Wells Audio Dragon L2 & Ferrum to compare as well? I’m aware the former is a tube hybrid but am looking to supplement it with a musical solid state that can better drive susvara down the line.

Its hard to do such comparisons because it's hard to get the 2 amps in the same place at the same time to do it. The dealers are different. I've heard the iDSD Pro Signature when I was shopping for tube amps and I found at that time that hybrids don't sound like tube amps at all, so I ruled it out for my needs. I heard it with my ZMF Verite Closed and for those headphones it did not work. I did demo the Clear MG and Clear OG on it which is when I decided I preferred the OG over the MG. It sounded okay but nothing special. The Ferrum Orr on the other hand is the best I have ever heard my Focal Utopias. It takes a headphone that otherwise has a relatively small sound stage and makes it grand and fixes the treble problems I had with it. To be honest, the Ferrum Orr improves the Utopia more than it improves the Susvara. Don't get me wrong, I bought the Orr because in part because it really pairs well with my Susvara and adds a nice alterative signature to my Ampsandsound Rockwell tube amp with a slightly more bass emphasis than the mids focused tube amp. But, the percentage improvement in sound to the Susvara is a lot smaller than it is for the Utopia. I am excited to see what a tube preamp can do with the Orr per @Sajid Amit's review of it with the Primaluna EVO 400 preamp.

 

[LarsMan]

Not the first mention that OOR is said to be lacking in dynamics. That Michael de Lazzer review mentioned the same thing too.

As an Oor stack owner, I'd like to say that my experience is that it's one of the most dynamic headphone amps I've ever heard. Mine rocks like a beast.... So different people have different experiences with the same product.... I enjoy Michael's reviews a lot, even though sometimes I disagree with his evaluations, but he kept the Oor and sold the other SPL Phonitor he had, so apparently the dynamics were quite sufficient for him...

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

As an Oor stack owner, I'd like to say that my experience is that it's one of the most dynamic headphone amps I've ever heard. Mine rocks like a beast.... So different people have different experiences with the same product.... I enjoy Michael's reviews a lot, even though sometimes I disagree with his evaluations, but he kept the Oor and sold the other SPL Phonitor he had, so apparently the dynamics were quite sufficient for him...

He's entertaining, but it's hard for me to take seriously someone who had Sultan win a shootout with Odin.

 

[LarsMan]

I know I will regret replying to you............but sowhatwtf it is a friday. Drummers don't all KICK the KICK drum with the same force, Drummers don't all hit their top hats with the same force. There is not a standard recording level/output level for recording engineers on drums........Punch/Impact being represented isn't linear from track to track just as it isn't linear from headphone to headphone. Some headphones have better low reach or dynamics that can better represent Punch/Impact.....you are one of 2 or 3 folks in all of these threads that continues with this distortion/power supply soap box and it is again pedantic.

... and there are always 'Beats'!

 

[LarsMan]

He's entertaining, but it's hard for me to take seriously someone who had Sultan win a shootout with Odin.

I don't know what a Sultan and an Odin are - IEM's I'd guess? Never heard one, so I've got no opinion on his opinions on that!

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

I don't know what a Sultan and an Odin are - IEM's I'd guess? Never heard one, so I've got no opinion on his opinions on that!

Yeah, IEMs. Maybe he is better with headphones and headphone gear.

 

[kumar402]

Wow reading all these impression about Susvara, it feels like someone is describing the sound signature of Sonnet Morpheus DAC. Great cohesive sound, excellent Timbre and Tonality. You can listen to it for hours. Has good Bass but just that the slam misses the mark in few songs when you are in that sort of mood. I can totally relate to that.
Looks like Susvara need Rockna Wavedream to rock it.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

Wow reading all these impression about Susvara, it feels like someone is describing the sound signature of Sonnet Morpheus DAC. Great cohesive sound, excellent Timbre and Tonality. You can listen to it for hours. Has good Bass but just that the slam misses the mark in few songs when you are in that sort of mood. I can totally relate to that.
Looks like Susvara need Rockna Wavedream to rock it.

Nailed it. That's Susvara when paired with the right DAC and AMP.

 

[Tachyon88]

@prismstorm What song were you listening to when you posted the picture of your volume ? I'm willing to bet nothing is wrong in your setup, but rather reading all of the impressions has lead to unrealistic expectations. Also people have noted that the susvara has good bass, but its softer, but then you read with the right "synergy" it can be unlocked ! "wow this is what its supposed to sound like".....well I guess you're hearing exactly that now... So even with the "right" gear it still soft. I've noted users saying that this is STILL the case even with something like the AHB2 - "proper" amplification.....

To me, even on my peasant gear the susvara lines up with what I have been reading and expecting.. its only relatively softer compared to other headphones all things equal, but I would say this is the nature of the driver regardless of "proper" amplification, IMO.

I was curious about the dac/amp combo, but now I'm not so sure. What do you think ?

 

[iFi audio]

susvara is such a controversial HP

Susvara is, well, demanding, but not as controversial as HD800 were after their release more than a decade ago. Now that was one polarizing product in the good sense of the word

Good old days when on one end we had LCD-2 fans, while folks into HD800 were entrenched on the other

 

[801evan]

That's not the problem. It's the opposite. For certain music, when it does require impact, Susvara does not deliver enough of it relative to 1266TC and Utopia. That's the point.

'requires' impact is subjective. And that means the preference for 1266tc/utopia/lcd4 is a subjective preference to bass peak (lcd4) and distortion (utopia/1266tc). With a poor signal chain, you WILL need the distortion of both to get the punch and impact your hungry for because of poor signal chain. Same reason why the same ppl are hyping Susvara with speaker amps because they have little clue on getting a low noise floor and saying susvara lacks bass.

Distortion likes distortion. That's why the false impression that utopia and TC punches harder. It doesn't punch harder, it just distorts harder.

I know I will regret replying to you............but sowhatwtf it is a friday. Drummers don't all KICK the KICK drum with the same force, Drummers don't all hit their top hats with the same force. There is not a standard recording level/output level for recording engineers on drums........Punch/Impact being represented isn't linear from track to track just as it isn't linear from headphone to headphone. Some headphones have better low reach or dynamics that can better represent Punch/Impact.....you are one of 2 or 3 folks in all of these threads that continues with this distortion/power supply soap box and it is again pedantic.

You're talking about two things. Your kick drum point and the variance of such is something that's in the recording. But why transfer that to different headphones hitting the kick drum differently on the same track.

And yes, susvara and stealth has that low reach quality. Exactly why the very active posters here cry it lacks bass because of their poor signal chain, but blames the susvara. But again, you are confusing 'punch' and impact with low reach. Those are completely opposite.

 

[krude]

'requires' impact is subjective. And that means the preference for 1266tc/utopia/lcd4 is a subjective preference to bass peak (lcd4) and distortion (utopia/1266tc). With a poor signal chain, you WILL need the distortion of both to get the punch and impact your hungry for because of poor signal chain. Same reason why the same ppl are hyping Susvara with speaker amps because they have little clue on getting a low noise floor and saying susvara lacks bass.

Distortion likes distortion. That's why the false impression that utopia and TC punches harder. It doesn't punch harder, it just distorts harder.


You're talking about two things. Your kick drum point and the variance of such is something that's in the recording. But why transfer that to different headphones hitting the kick drum differently on the same track.

And yes, susvara and stealth has that low reach quality. Exactly why the very active posters here cry it lacks bass because of their poor signal chain, but blames the susvara. But again, you are confusing 'punch' and impact with low reach. Those are completely opposite.

I know a thing or two about audio engineering and what you say makes little sense to me as a whole. Single bits ring true, but it looks like you could be conflating a few things and creating your own theory. What do you understand as distortion?

And yes, the physical intensity with which a driver is able to reproduce a transient is often called slam, and it is just that, the amount of physicality a driver is able to reproduce. That's why most dynamic drivers slam harder. Same for IEMs, pretty much all of them with DD for bass slam harder (with exceptions), it's simple physics.

I'm not saying that there are no grains of truth with what you're saying, but it's not nearly as black and white as you're making it up to be.

Tube amps with high impedance out create "distortion" and elevated bass, most noticeable again with DD sets, but it's a desired effect. Tube amps also give you a perception of more bass bc they introduce harmonic distortion. Is it bad? No, it's what people use for music prosuction itself, it's part of the music production and reproduction since forever pretty much. It's a very wide topic and it looks to me like you're trying to give simple answers to complex questions and make a dogma out of it. Sorry didn't mean to sound offensive but it's simply wrong.

 

[chargedcapacitor]

I know a tthing or two about audio engineering and what you say makes little sense to me as a whole. Single bits ring true, but it looks like you could be conflating a few things and creating your own theory. What do you understand as distortion?

And yes, the physical intensity with which a driver is able to reproduce a transient is often called slam, and it is just that, the amount of physicality a driver is able to reproduce. That's why most dynamic drivers slam harder. Same for IEMs, prety much all of them with DD for bass slam harder (with exceptions), it's simple physics.

I'm not saying that there are no grains of truth with what you're saying, but it's not nearly as black and white as you're making it up to be.

Tube amps with high impedance out create "distortion" and elevated bass, most noticeable again with DD sets, but it's a desired effect. Tube amps also give you a perceltion of more bass bc they introduce harmonic dustortion. Is it bad No, it's what people use for music prosuction itself, it's part of the music production and reproduction since forever pretty much. It's a very wide topic and it looks to me like you're trying to give simple answers to complex questions and make a dogma out of it. Sorry didn't mean to sound offensive but it's simply wrong.

They are a known troll, it's best to just ignore them.

 

[krude]

They are a known troll, it's best to just ignore them.

I see

 

[801evan]

I know a ting or two about audio engineering and what you say makes little sense to me as a whole. Single bits ring true, but it looks like you could be conflating a few things and creating your own theory. What do you understand as distortion?

And yes, the physical intensity with which a driver is able to reproduce a transient is often called slam, and it is just that, the amount of physicality a driver is able to reproduce. That's why most dynamic drivers slam harder. Same for IEMs, pretty much all of them with DD for bass slam harder (with exceptions), it's simple physics.

You are right here. What I'm saying is the poor interpretation of reviewers in thinking this and then thinking the utopia is reproducing that correctly is quite wrong.

Tube amps with high impedance out create "distortion" and elevated bass, most noticeable again with DD sets, but it's a desired effect. Tube amps also give you a perception of more bass bc they introduce harmonic distortion. Is it bad? No, it's what people use for music prosuction itself, it's part of the music production and reproduction since forever pretty much

You are right here but this is a discussion on TOTL. That's like saying "oh the night mode on the phone just makes people's skin look better so people should use it on a display that 100% compliant to dci-p3. Oh dci-p3 is just too cold. It's all subjective u know."