[anoxy]

That's what I can't wrap my head around—if something is 'the best' there can't be anything 'better'...
 
And if sound is subjective, why would it be better?

 

[ericp10]

Quote:

No offense, but that reminds me of Apple and their 'S' devices....slightly annoying for ASG-2 upgraders like me who might feel like they are getting duped by not getting the 'finest drivers' with 'specs higher than average.' Instead we're only getting the mediocre or average quality components. Why not just make all of them like ASG-2S instead?

 
 
I think you're looking at it wrong. They are two totally different products. One is a different premium product. Nobody complained when Shure offered it's premium SE535 (red I think?). Many claim it sounds quite better than the regular SE535. Some say the W4R sounds better than the W4. I have yet to write and demand that Westone replace my W4 with the better W4R. Really? Either you want the product that is offered (which is fantastic when I heard it); or you want the premium (different product); or you want to do business with a company who will bend to "your" every personal whim. There are companies out there like that, but guess what? You pay for them to bend to your personal whims.
 
I think your statement is unfair, insulting and a bit annoying toward Aurisonics. I would state the same thing if this was asked of Westone, Shure or any other company that is in business to sell their quality products, and not in business to make a "pal" happy and give a whole lot of something for nothing. I might be reading your questions wrong (and I'm not trying to be offensive or insulting), but that's how they are coming across to me. 
Maybe I should ask Aurisonics to pay me for defending the company against these type of questions? lol 

  .... Wouldn't be fair to you guys, but it would surely make ME happy! That's how some of your questions and statements come across to me. lol

 

[Aurisonics]

Quote:

could you shed some light as how some parts would be "better"?

[size=10pt]Slightly higher density in the N52 neodymium, voice coil alignment different, slight difference in the diaphragm material, differences in the amount of glue securing the VC wires, magnetic flux slight differences, etc... This list could go on and on. The same goes for if they fall out of the spec (which is very tight) on the low side  they are scrap.[/size]

 

[anoxy]

Quote:

 
 
I think you're looking at it wrong. They are two totally different products. One is a different premium product. Nobody complained when Shure offered it's premium SE535 (red I think?). Many claim it sounds quite better than the regular SE535. Some say the W4R sounds better than the W4. I have yet to write and demand that Westone replace my W4 with the better W4R. Really? Either you want the product that is offered (which is fantastic when I heard it); or you want the premium (different product); or you want to do business with a company who will bend to "your" every personal whim. There are companies out there like that, but guess what? You pay for them to bend to your personal whims.
 
I think your statement is unfair, insulting and a bit annoying toward Aurisonics. I would state the same thing if this was asked of Westone, Shure or any other company that is in business to sell their quality products, and not in business to make a "pal" happy and give a whole lot of something for nothing. I might be reading your questions wrong (and I'm not trying to be offensive or insulting), but that's how they are coming across to me. 
Maybe I should ask Aurisonics to pay me for defending the company against these type of questions? lol 

  .... Wouldn't be fair to you guys, but it would surely make ME happy! That's how some of your questions and statements come across to me. lol

Wasn't meant as an attack on Aurisonics. Just because I have the balls to ask questions that might offend, doesn't mean that is my intention. I seek honesty and transparency in companies about their intentions and marketing dynamics. If they are like Apple, trying to steal more of your money by releasing an iPhone 4 and then an iPhone 4S shortly after with the same current gen technology, I tend to dislike that tactic. This is coming from somebody who believes capitalism is the worst thing that ever happened to mankind.
But like I said, I'm never attacking them with the intention to harm. I'm prodding them for the sake of transparency in their practices, and answers to why they choose to do the things they do. They don't have to answer, but Dale graciously does, and I respect that.

 

[nyonya]

Quote:

Wasn't meant as an attack on Aurisonics. Just because I have the balls to ask questions that might offend, doesn't mean that is my intention. I seek honesty and transparency in companies about their intentions and marketing dynamics. If they are like Apple, trying to steal more of your money by releasing an iPhone 4 and then an iPhone 4S shortly after with the same current gen technology, I tend to dislike that tactic. This is coming from somebody who believes capitalism is the worst thing that ever happened to mankind.
But like I said, I'm never attacking them with the intention to harm. I'm prodding them for the sake of transparency in their practices, and answers to why they choose to do the things they do. They don't have to answer, but Dale graciously does, and I respect that.

Capitalism is the reason we have everything we have today, and the only economic system that has proven sustainable. Also, not that I'm a fan of Apple or anything, but the 4S had significantly upgraded graphics and a much better camera than the 4, so it was a decent upgrade. Of course it's always the consumer's choice whether to spend more on a new, shinier item or not...kind of like with IEMs or any products.
 
Carry on...

 

[jrkong]

Quote:

That's what I can't wrap my head around—if something is 'the best' there can't be anything 'better'...
 
And if sound is subjective, why would it be better?

With the ASG-1S the driver difference comes from picking out the best drivers out of the batch so they are matched better. You will never find drivers that always match specific specs, some will always be a bit better then others. For the ASG-1S, Dale said 1 in every 100 drivers match the required specs so are you saying it's wrong to charge extra for this extra bit of care? What would you do with the remaining drivers?

 

[gnarlsagan]

Quote:

Wasn't meant as an attack on Aurisonics. Just because I have the balls to ask questions that might offend, doesn't mean that is my intention. I seek honesty and transparency in companies about their intentions and marketing dynamics. If they are like Apple, trying to steal more of your money by releasing an iPhone 4 and then an iPhone 4S shortly after with the same current gen technology, I tend to dislike that tactic. This is coming from somebody who believes capitalism is the worst thing that ever happened to mankind.
But like I said, I'm never attacking them with the intention to harm. I'm prodding them for the sake of transparency in their practices, and answers to why they choose to do the things they do. They don't have to answer, but Dale graciously does, and I respect that.

 
It's totally a fair question. Dale is right though; there are good reasons for two different models. Even totl cans like the HD800 and LCD-3 have small differences between pairs, and some may measure slightly better than others.
 
Also etymotic, who hand matches drivers, has a maximum tolerance of +-1dB. Some drivers may be -.9dB and some may be -.1dB as an example, and they must be matched accordingly. The differences are small (inaudible to many), but some people will pay extra for the slightest increase in quality, hence justifying a new product line. I could see etymotic doing this with the ER4S, with a tolerance of say +-.2dB instead of 1dB, and marketing it as the ER4ST, which I would totally buy. 

 

[anoxy]

Quote:

Capitalism is the reason we have everything we have today, and the only economic system that has proven sustainable. Also, not that I'm a fan of Apple or anything, but the 4S had significantly upgraded graphics and a much better camera than the 4, so it was a decent upgrade. Of course it's always the consumer's choice whether to spend more on a new, shinier item or not...kind of like with IEMs or any products.
 
Carry on...

Yeah no kidding, and it's also the reason society is a craphole of material greed, war, and the jonas brothers. Also, of course it's the only proven sustainable economic system. It's only been in place for a few hundred years—nothing else has had a chance to be 'proven,' at least not in the US. I consider myself an anarchist so I could rattle on for days about this junk.
 
carry on.

 

[anoxy]

Quote:

With the ASG-1S the driver difference comes from picking out the best drivers out of the batch so they are matched better. You will never find drivers that always match specific specs, some will always be a bit better then others. For the ASG-1S, Dale said 1 in every 100 drivers match the required specs so are you saying it's wrong to charge extra for this extra bit of care? What would you do with the remaining drivers?

Well that's good information to know. I was not aware components could vary so much in technical ability. 

 

[nyonya]

Hi all,
 
I'm currently auditioning a demo unit of the AS-2s - just thought I'd share some thoughts. I don't have the depth of experience that members like ericp10 and FlySweep have, so I'd think their opinions should carry more weight. Anyways, here's a short comparison of the AS-2s vs. my current favorite IEM, the GR07 Mk II:
 
Overall, the signatures of these are very very close; this is a good thing for me, as I picked the GR07s over all the other IEMs I've had the fortune to hear (check my profile for a list of almost everything I've heard; I've also briefly auditioned the Ortofon EQ-5, Brainwavz B2 and Hisound Crystal). The bass of the AS-2s hits lower than the GR07s, if you can believe it - making everything sound just that much sharper. I'd previously found the GR07s the kings of sub-bass, but the AS-2 is clearly better in this regard. The mids of the AS-2s sound very much in line with the bass and the treble - a little more forward than the GR07s I think, but it's very close. The treble of the AS-2s sounds very technically competent - I'm not a huge treblehead but they do seem slightly better than the GR07s here - certainly a bit less fatiguing. I'd guess it's missing some of those peaks in the upper registers of the GR07s, but I'll leave it to more experienced members to corroborate that.
 
The separation on the AS-2s is clearly better than the GR07s as well - if audio memory serves, they aren't far from the UM3X here. Also, I finally see what eke2k6 means with respect to the GR07's soundstage - it really is height that they're missing, which the AS-2 isn't. Consequently, it certainly sounds more open and well-rounded than the (now in my mind) squished GR07. The AS-2s are more efficient as well, requiring about a 5 step lower volume level than the Vsonics out of my Clip Zip - which by the way drives them just fine. I do hope to experiment with some better sources at some point.
 
If I had to pick one word to describe the AS-2s, it would be: natural. Everything sounds great on these - the timbre is great, and I'm pretty confident the dynamics are improved over the GR07 as well. It sounds very cohesive as well - I can't pinpoint any difference between the sound of the dynamic driver and the balanced armatures; I won't pretend to be an expert in this area however.
 
Now for the main question: are these improvements worth a ~$350 premium (my other option is getting custom tips for my GR07s)? I have yet to fully figure that out, but I'm leaning towards ordering a pair.
 
If anyone has any specific questions, or any tracks they'd like me to listen to with these and provide feedback - I'm happy to do that. I'll be going on vacation starting Friday morning however, so won't be able to listen to these after that.

 

[gnarlsagan]

Hi all,

I'm currently auditioning a demo unit of the AS-2s - just thought I'd share some thoughts. I don't have the depth of experience that members like ericp10 and FlySweep have, so I'd think their opinions should carry more weight. Anyways, here's a short comparison of the AS-2s vs. my current favorite IEM, the GR07 Mk II:

Overall, the signatures of these are very very close; this is a good thing for me, as I picked the GR07s over all the other IEMs I've had the fortune to hear (check my profile for a list of almost everything I've heard; I've also briefly auditioned the Ortofon EQ-5, Brainwavz B2 and Hisound Crystal). The bass of the AS-2s hits lower than the GR07s, if you can believe it - making everything sound just that much sharper. I'd previously found the GR07s the kings of sub-bass, but the AS-2 is clearly better in this regard. The mids of the AS-2s sound very much in line with the bass and the treble - a little more forward than the GR07s I think, but it's very close. The treble of the AS-2s sounds very technically competent - I'm not a huge treblehead but they do seem slightly better than the GR07s here - certainly a bit less fatiguing. I'd guess it's missing some of those peaks in the upper registers of the GR07s, but I'll leave it to more experienced members to corroborate that.

The separation on the AS-2s is clearly better than the GR07s as well - if audio memory serves, they aren't far from the UM3X here. Also, I finally see what eke2k6 means with respect to the GR07's soundstage - it really is height that they're missing, which the AS-2 isn't. Consequently, it certainly sounds more open and well-rounded than the (now in my mind) squished GR07. The AS-2s are more efficient as well, requiring about a 5 step lower volume level than the Vsonics out of my Clip Zip - which by the way drives them just fine. I do hope to experiment with some better sources at some point.

If I had to pick one word to describe the AS-2s, it would be: natural. Everything sounds great on these - the timbre is great, and I'm pretty confident the dynamics are improved over the GR07 as well. It sounds very cohesive as well - I can't pinpoint any difference between the sound of the dynamic driver and the balanced armatures; I won't pretend to be an expert in this area however.

Now for the main question: are these improvements worth a ~$350 premium (my other option is getting custom tips for my GR07s)? I have yet to fully figure that out, but I'm leaning towards ordering a pair.

If anyone has any specific questions, or any tracks they'd like me to listen to with these and provide feedback - I'm happy to do that. I'll be going on vacation starting Friday morning however, so won't be able to listen to these after that.

More forward mids = very good thing. Can you compare the mids a bit more? How does mid-bass and lower treble affect the mids? Awesome impressions btw. You're a natural.

 

[nyonya]

Quote:

More forward mids = very good thing. Can you compare the mids a bit more? How does mid-bass and lower treble affect the mids? Awesome impressions btw. You're a natural.

I'm not sure how to properly describe mids - I will say I find nothing lacking in the AS-2s' mids, and I think they're basically perfectly placed in the spectrum - I had never thought the GR07s' mids to be recessed, but they're undoubtedly farther back than the AS-2s'. I haven't noticed any bleed from the midbass into the midrange - the bass doesn't sound boosted to me. If it's at all boosted it's no more so than the GR07s' bass. Can't really say much about lower treble at this point, will try to listen more for that tomorrow. So far though, male voices sound very natural on these - will give some Nightwish a spin tomorrow to get the female flavor 

 
And thanks for the compliment! Just trying to use the vocabulary I've learned on here to describe what I hear, it's very helpful actually.

 

[Idsynchrono_24]

At long last, someone who has a pair of the vaunted AS-2 can contribute some impressions. I'm really curious about the treble response on these things being that they contain proprietary armatures. Do cymbals have an airy shimmer and natural decay as opposed to being hazy and splashy? Does it sound like an actual piece of metal is being struck by a drumstick? With regards to the soundstage how do they stack up to the SM3? Since you mention that there is height to the soundstage, would you say that they sound more similar to a full sized headphone? How's the imaging on them, I take it things are more dimensional and layered vs. the GR07? Sorry for the barrage of questions haha

 

[kenman345]

Just wanna point out Dale has made it clear the demo units floating around are not using the tweaks he mentioned a few posts ago. But I would assume that the tweaks would keep the signature just make everything better

 

[nyonya]

Quote:

At long last, someone who has a pair of the vaunted AS-2 can contribute some impressions. I'm really curious about the treble response on these things being that they contain proprietary armatures. Do cymbals have an airy shimmer and natural decay as opposed to being hazy and splashy? Does it sound like an actual piece of metal is being struck by a drumstick? With regards to the soundstage how do they stack up to the SM3? Since you mention that there is height to the soundstage, would you say that they sound more similar to a full sized headphone? How's the imaging on them, I take it things are more dimensional and layered vs. the GR07? Sorry for the barrage of questions haha

I do think that cymbals sound very natural on these - have the proper weight, a bit more than the GR07 in comparison I feel. Every bit of percussion sounds very defined and powerful - it's a bit hard to describe, but I put it down to the great sub-bass and separation. It is not however a pure basshead IEM - the SM3 and UM3X had too much bass for me, these feel just right. Unfortunately I no longer have the triple-drivers to do a direct comparison.
 
In terms of soundstage, relative to the SM3 I think these have more space. They don't quite have the centering aspect of the SM3 - making you feel like the vocals are coming from inside your head and all instruments are arranged around you. The soundstage is about as wide as the GR07s' and definitely taller. I'm not exactly sure how to listen for layering, but I do think the imaging is better than the GR07s.
 
I unfortunately have never really listened to a good full sized headphone unfortunately, so I can't help there.