[silvermuse]

Hi there! Been reading Head-Fi and following classifieds for a while, but never made an account (well, I had an old one under another email that I never used).

I thought I'd test the waters and see if anyone had good advice for me!

Thank you SO MUCH in advance if you read this and offer advice. I've tried to make it clear and well-organized. You're welcome to just read the bullet points and ignore the details, just to peek what I've heard and what I'm looking for and looking at. If you wish, you can read the other notes I added.




My prior listening experience

As a teenager, didn't know much about hi-fi, was getting into classical music heavily and that was most of my listening, owned all of these at the same time:

• Sennheiser HD 598 (loved these, were my main pair for years)
• AKG K 240 (was too inexperienced to judge)
• Sony MDR 7506 (was too inexperienced to judge)

Fast forward a decade or two, to what I've had over the past few years:

• Bose QC 35 ii (my main for everything, amazing noise canceling but NEVER use it, I actually use them unpowered and wired all the time, and genuinely feel that, at least for my pair, the sound quality seems much worse when turned on, despite what analyses say - I never use them on the go anymore and live alone, so I don't use the wireless OR the noise canceling, so why do I still own them? hence the desire to explore better headphones for my use case)
• Apple AirPods Pro 2 (love the convenience of these, exclusively use them when going out instead of the Bose, never enjoyed in-ears much and any I've ever had tend to either be uncomfortable or gradually fall out and I have to reseat them often, including with these AirPods, but not uncomfortable and do sound pretty good to me - not good enough though that I ever pull them out at home for listening)

What I've dabbled in recently:

• HIFIMAN Edition XS (first step into mid-fi, I wanted to hear the soundstage and boy was it impressive, had some great experiences but then returned them due to buyer's remorse at the time, despite enjoying them)
• HIFIMAN Ananda (six months later I went in again, this time on a great deal on Anandas, and they sounded fairly similar to what I remembered liking about the Edition XS's but I actually got them cheaper and felt happy about the price; sadly, the cables were SUPER loose on them and it became a constant annoyance with unplugging and audio quality issues from movement)
• Topping DX3 Pro+ (had this powering the Edition XS, seemed to work well, but I have no reference point for DACs and amps so I'm totally lost with recognizing their value, just blindly following advice here)
• Beyerdynamic Amiron Home (got this in a trade+cash for the Anandas, they seem like a fun listen, obviously much closer with less soundstage, but I did immediately enjoy them and don't feel too bad about getting to try them out in the interim, even if I feel like I prefer the wide soundstage - sadly, haven't had two higher quality headphones at the same time to really compare)

My use case

• I listen almost exclusively at home at my PC.
• My listening is about 50% classical (mostly piano, then symphonic, then whatever) and 50% various genres and anything else (often rock and metal, or soundtracks, or sometimes pop, but no big focus).
• I currently have a FiiO K7 in the mail as my DAC/Amp, so I'll be working with that first.

Budget and goals

My goal is headphones that are around $500, but feel okay about owning headphones up to $800 if they felt like a seriously great experience, though I'm picky and susceptible to nocebo affect with tech (I lean towards assuming and perceiving that there isn't that much difference unless it slaps me in the face) and hence a lot of buyer's remorse, so an $800 pair is a big risk for me.

My goal for a whole system is under $1000. I already have the FiiO K7 arriving soon, so hopefully that covers an appropriate amp for this sort of system. If it doesn't work out, I'd return it and replace it with something at the same price range.

That leaves like $500-800 range for headphones, and I either want:

1. Two different pairs that complement each other
2. One single pair that is worth the tier upgrade in price

Options I've been exploring and would love feedback on

Headphone options if I want 2 different pairs (in the $150-500 range each):

1. HIFIMAN Edition XS or Ananda - I'd be down to have one of these be one of my two pairs, the soundstage is very fun, and I know they're comfortable on my head if I choose to daily drive them (I wear my headphones sometimes all day). However, I wasn't necessarily... blown away, as a beginner. I just enjoyed them.
2. HIFIMAN Sundara - Could go cheaper and make these an option, though I feel like since I've already tried two higher tier HIFIMAN options, and which are still in my price range, that I shouldn't bother with these.
3. Sennheiser HD600 / 6XX / 660S / other 6__? - I've never tried one of these and have been recommended to do so. It sounds like they'd be great and an awesome option in a mid-fi multi-headphone system, BUT I've heard debates that they are indeed extremely different from one another and people seem to love/hate different ones and have their preferences, so I really really struggle to know which one to go for. Seems like there could very likely be a right and wrong choice for me out of the 6__ options. Maybe even 560S fits in here? Or 650? I had the 598's before and that's my only reference. I think I have them in storage and should pull them out to try now.
4. Sennheiser HD660S2 - have been recommended these as far better than the other 6__ options and a step up from the 660S
5. Focal Clear (OG?) / Elex / Elear? - could be in this price range, don't know anything about them apart from often seeing them mentioned
6. Audede LCD-X / 2 / 3 - sometimes could be in this price range, but as with the Focals I just don't know anything about them apart from seeing them often namedropped

Headphone options if I just want 1 more expensive pair (in the $500-800 range):

1. Sennheiser HD800S - Have heard that these can be endgame for some people. No idea if they align with what my preferences will end up being, but have heard great stuff and might just barely be in my budget. (Is the 8XX the same thing?)
2. HIFIMAN Arya - Can almost find these cheap enough to run in the double headphone setup, but not sure how much better they would be for me versus the Edition XS or Ananda, for the price. Then again, knowing I did at least enjoy those, maybe it's more of a good thing for me and fairly safe bet for spending more money.
3. Audeze LCD-X / 2 / 3 - Depending on the model and deal, some are in this price range
4. Focal Clear (OG?) / Elex / Elear? - Also see these mentioned a lot, but don't know a lot about them.
5. JM XTC Open - Apparently these might be ridiculously good for under $1000, though I don't know if my starter setup would be worthy of driving them, but extremely interested in this option

DAC/Amps options (I don't know if I can justify beyond the $200 price range for my first DAC/Amp, before I really know anything about them):

1. FiiO K7 - this is in the mail, going to try it out first, I don't know how to judge it but if it works it works and I'll probably keep it without trying any other options
2. Schiit stack / Atom stack - keep hearing about these and they can be a similar price range ($150-300) as the other options here, but didn't decide to go that route yet
3. Topping DX3 Pro+ - had it, returned it with the Edition XS, but it did seem to work fine, no way to compare it really. I actually did buy it again with the Anandas but it was defective and had to return, so I didn't decide to buy it a 3rd time... but I maybe still might!
4. Heard tube amps can be important? No idea, I'm new to stuff like that, and things like balanced cables, etc.

 

[Icos]

I really love my HD600s. I can listen to just about anything on them and it'll sound good, though my favorite part about them is the comfort of wearing them. I swapped the pads to the dekoni fenestrated sheepskin pads and I can listen to them forever without my ears getting sore from pressure or fatigued from the sound. Unfortunately I tend to use in-ears more, but I hope folks who are better with over-ears can give more detailed feedback about hd600s alternatives/competitors.

 

[Shane D]

Hi there! Been reading Head-Fi and following classifieds for a while, but never made an account (well, I had an old one under another email that I never used).

I thought I'd test the waters and see if anyone had good advice for me!

Thank you SO MUCH in advance if you read this and offer advice. I've tried to make it clear and well-organized. You're welcome to just read the bullet points and ignore the details, just to peek what I've heard and what I'm looking for and looking at. If you wish, you can read the other notes I added.




My prior listening experience

As a teenager, didn't know much about hi-fi, was getting into classical music heavily and that was most of my listening, owned all of these at the same time:

• Sennheiser HD 598 (loved these, were my main pair for years)
• AKG K 240 (was too inexperienced to judge)
• Sony MDR 7506 (was too inexperienced to judge)

Fast forward a decade or two, to what I've had over the past few years:

• Bose QC 35 ii (my main for everything, amazing noise canceling but NEVER use it, I actually use them unpowered and wired all the time, and genuinely feel that, at least for my pair, the sound quality seems much worse when turned on, despite what analyses say - I never use them on the go anymore and live alone, so I don't use the wireless OR the noise canceling, so why do I still own them? hence the desire to explore better headphones for my use case)
• Apple AirPods Pro 2 (love the convenience of these, exclusively use them when going out instead of the Bose, never enjoyed in-ears much and any I've ever had tend to either be uncomfortable or gradually fall out and I have to reseat them often, including with these AirPods, but not uncomfortable and do sound pretty good to me - not good enough though that I ever pull them out at home for listening)

What I've dabbled in recently:

• HIFIMAN Edition XS (first step into mid-fi, I wanted to hear the soundstage and boy was it impressive, had some great experiences but then returned them due to buyer's remorse at the time, despite enjoying them)
• HIFIMAN Ananda (six months later I went in again, this time on a great deal on Anandas, and they sounded fairly similar to what I remembered liking about the Edition XS's but I actually got them cheaper and felt happy about the price; sadly, the cables were SUPER loose on them and it became a constant annoyance with unplugging and audio quality issues from movement)
• Topping DX3 Pro+ (had this powering the Edition XS, seemed to work well, but I have no reference point for DACs and amps so I'm totally lost with recognizing their value, just blindly following advice here)
• Beyerdynamic Amiron Home (got this in a trade+cash for the Anandas, they seem like a fun listen, obviously much closer with less soundstage, but I did immediately enjoy them and don't feel too bad about getting to try them out in the interim, even if I feel like I prefer the wide soundstage - sadly, haven't had two higher quality headphones at the same time to really compare)

My use case

• I listen almost exclusively at home at my PC.
• My listening is about 50% classical (mostly piano, then symphonic, then whatever) and 50% various genres and anything else (often rock and metal, or soundtracks, or sometimes pop, but no big focus).
• I currently have a FiiO BTR7 in the mail as my DAC/Amp, so I'll be working with that first.

Budget and goals

My goal is headphones that are around $500, but feel okay about owning headphones up to $800 if they felt like a seriously great experience, though I'm pick and susceptible to nocebo affect with tech (I lean towards assuming and perceiving that there isn't that much difference unless it slaps me in the face) and hence a lot of buyer's remorse, so an $800 pair is a big risk for me.

My goal for a whole system is under $1000. I already have the FiiO BTR7 arriving soon, so hopefully that covers an appropriate amp for this sort of system. If it doesn't work out, I'd return it and replace it with something at the same price range.

That leaves like $500-800 range for headphones, and I either want:

1. Two different pairs that complement each other
2. One single pair that is worth the tier upgrade in price

Options I've been exploring and would love feedback on

Headphone options if I want 2 different pairs (in the $150-400 range each):

1. HIFIMAN Edition XS or Ananda - I'd be down to have one of these be one of my two pairs, the soundstage is very fun, and I know they're comfortable on my head if I choose to daily drive them (I wear my headphones sometimes all day). However, I wasn't necessarily... blown away, as a beginner. I just enjoyed them.
2. HIFIMAN Sundara - Could go cheaper and make these an option, though I feel like since I've already tried two higher tier HIFIMAN options, and which are still in my price range, that I shouldn't bother with these.
3. Sennheiser HD600 / 6XX / 660S / other 6__? - I've never tried one of these and have been recommended to do so. It sounds like they'd be great and an awesome option in a mid-fi multi-headphone system, BUT I've heard debates that they are indeed extremely different from one another and people seem to love/hate different ones and have their preferences, so I really really struggle to know which one to go for. Seems like there could very likely be a right and wrong choice for me out of the 6__ options. Maybe even 560S fits in here? Or 650? I had the 598's before and that's my only reference. I think I have them in storage and should pull them out to try now.
4. Focal Elex - could be in this price range

Headphone options if I just want 1 more expensive pair (in the $400-800 range):

1. Sennheiser HD800S - Have heard that these can be endgame for some people. No idea if they align with what my preferences will end up being, but have heard great stuff and might just barely be in my budget. (Is the 8XX the same thing?)
2. HIFIMAN Arya - Can almost find these cheap enough to run in the double headphone setup, but not sure how much better they would be for me versus the Edition XS or Ananda, for the price. Then again, knowing I did at least enjoy those, maybe it's more of a good thing for me and fairly safe bet for spending more money.
3. Audeze LCD-X / 2 / 3 - Don't know a ton about these, have a friend who loves the LCDs in general, and see them mentioned a lot.
4. Focal Clear (OG?) / Elex - Also see these mentioned a lot, but don't know a lot about them.

DAC/Amps options:

1. FiiO BTR7 / K7 / K7 BT - as mentioned, the BTR7 is arriving and was a strong recommendation for my situation from a friend who is into hifi, but I'm assuming I should maybe return it for the K7 because I only listen at my desktop, almost exclusively. I also heard that the K7 BT might be an upgrade from the K7? But if it's just the BT function, then I don't care. So, deciding whether to maybe buy the K7 and test it side-by-side with the BTR7 and return one, is that a good idea?
2. Schiit stack / Atom stack - keep hearing about these and they can be a similar price range ($150-300) as the other options here, but didn't decide to go that route yet
3. Topping DX3 Pro+ - had it, returned it with the Edition XS, but it did seem to work fine, no way to compare it really. I actually did buy it again with the Anandas but it was defective and had to return, so I didn't decide to buy it a 3rd time... but I maybe still might!
4. Heard tube amps can be important? No idea, I'm new to stuff like that, and things like balanced cables, etc.

There are several good DAC/Amps from FiiO, HiFiman and several others
For headphones I would go with Headphones.com and get some Focal Elex's. Last looked they were $499.00 new and $449.00 open-box. Awesome headphone and great all rounder. If you are feeling flush you might be able to get an open box Clear for $839.00, although I would just stick with the Elex.

And the Elex's are not too hard to drive, although I seem to recall my DAP not doing a great job with them (Sony NW-ZX300).

 

[phoneslave86]

I'd check out custom tuned JM audio XTC. You can get any tuning you like as they are handmade to order with Beryllium or BioNanoWool drivers. People with expensive headphone collections favor them for overall listening. They run around $800 and it's a great experience with some of the best customer service I've seen. They also scale to the moon if you ever go big.

 

[dunring]

From what you describe, if I had to pick out a system it would be to stretch the budget and get an open box Arya Stealth from Hifiman, which then can bump out the warranty to 18 months following them on Facebook. The Topping L50/E50 would be my pick for that, silent noise floor, and the same power on all connectors so you don't need to spend on balanced cables. I've had almost every Hifiman model, and the Arya Stealth was the one that made everything else sound like a dud

 

[silvermuse]

I really love my HD600s. I can listen to just about anything on them and it'll sound good, though my favorite part about them is the comfort of wearing them. I swapped the pads to the dekoni fenestrated sheepskin pads and I can listen to them forever without my ears getting sore from pressure or fatigued from the sound. Unfortunately I tend to use in-ears more, but I hope folks who are better with over-ears can give more detailed feedback about hd600s alternatives/competitors.

I hear people rave about each different 6__, but I'm pretty motivated to try the 600S out of the lot. I'm down to have them as an option, feel like they'll be comfortable based on my 598 experience. I think it's hard to argue against at least getting a pair to try out when I've never gotten any of them!

 

[silvermuse]

There are several good DAC/Amps from FiiO, HiFiman and several others
For headphones I would go with Headphones.com and get some Focal Elex's. Last looked they were $499.00 new and $449.00 open-box. Awesome headphone and great all rounder. If you are feeling flush you might be able to get an open box Clear for $839.00, although I would just stick with the Elex.

And the Elex's are not too hard to drive, although I seem to recall my DAP not doing a great job with them (Sony NW-ZX300).

Yeah, the Focal Elex is a name I keep hearing and the reduced price around $450 that I've seen in a few places seems very tempting. I think the only thing steering me away from that is that I really know next to nothing about them. I studied the HIFIMAN lineup more, and I know a bit more about people's impressions and descriptions of Senns, but when it comes to Focals and Audezes I haven't really done any study on them or what they're like.
For now I'll have the FiiO BTR7 or maybe swap to a K7, hopefully that is more than sufficient for a Focal Elex if I grab that. I think it's very likely I go with a duo of Senn 6__ + Elex or + Arya.

 

[silvermuse]

I'd check out custom tuned JM audio XTC. You can get any tuning you like as they are handmade to order with Beryllium or BioNanoWool drivers. People with expensive headphone collections favor them for overall listening. They run around $800 and it's a great experience with some of the best customer service I've seen. They also scale to the moon if you ever go big.

That sounds very interesting, but I don't think I would have a clue what tuning I would like. I'm definitely detail-oriented and picky in areas I have experience with, but with hifi I'm just a huge beginner and really don't know what sound signature I want, what style I like, honestly my progress so far is just to know that I... enjoyed the feeling of the huge soundstage of the Edition XS and the Ananda, and I don't like loud highs as they kinda hurt my ears. That's the best I can formulate for a sound preference right now, apart from sharing my listening habits.
That stuff would be in my budget for a single pair of cans, but I don't know if I'm knowledgeable enough to purchase it.

 

[silvermuse]

From what you describe, if I had to pick out a system it would be to stretch the budget and get an open box Arya Stealth from Hifiman, which then can bump out the warranty to 18 months following them on Facebook. The Topping L50/E50 would be my pick for that, silent noise floor, and the same power on all connectors so you don't need to spend on balanced cables. I've had almost every Hifiman model, and the Arya Stealth was the one that made everything else sound like a dud

This is definitely one of my top options. I know I had a positive experience with the mid Hifiman models, and a recommendation like that for the Arya makes it seem like an obvious choice. There's an Arya on the classifieds here currently for $550 so those prices are possible, and with that I could get a second pair as well like a Senn 6__ of some sort.
I'm not ready, though, to spend $500 on a DAC+Amp stack until I understand what they're doing for me. So far, I kinda have no idea, and blindly following recommendations into the $200 tier feels so-so but I can do it, but beyond that seems silly until I know how to tell a difference.
How big a deal do you think that difference is, especially for something like Aryas, from a $200 stack or combo unit into $500 on that part of the system? My noob brain wants to feel like all they need to do is power and raise volume enough, but obviously they must do a lot more for sound quality or people wouldn't invest in them.

 

[kumar402]

Audeze LCD-X with Nitsch Pietus Maximus with ESS DAC chip but may go slightly above your budget

 

[LostControl85]

If you're intrested I'll let my mid-fi cans go as a package for $450. Sundara, HD6xx, & DT 700 Pro X. Then you can sample them all. New pads on all, & upgraded balanced cable for Sundara.

 

[phoneslave86]

That sounds very interesting, but I don't think I would have a clue what tuning I would like. I'm definitely detail-oriented and picky in areas I have experience with, but with hifi I'm just a huge beginner and really don't know what sound signature I want, what style I like, honestly my progress so far is just to know that I... enjoyed the feeling of the huge soundstage of the Edition XS and the Ananda, and I don't like loud highs as they kinda hurt my ears. That's the best I can formulate for a sound preference right now, apart from sharing my listening habits.
That stuff would be in my budget for a single pair of cans, but I don't know if I'm knowledgeable enough to purchase it.

Oh it's very easy, just tell JM what you know. He does the rest. Most just go for warm and detailed tuning. You can always send them back to get them retuned too which is really nice. I have done one retune so far and it was amazing. I'm upper sensitive and all headphones are fatiguing to some extent for me if I use them all day. I have 3 XTC with different tunings and they are all less fatiguing than my Z1r and Clear OGs were.

 

[Shane D]

There are several good DAC/Amps from FiiO, HiFiman and several others
For headphones I would go with Headphones.com and get some Focal Elex's. Last looked they were $499.00 new and $449.00 open-box. Awesome headphone and great all rounder. If you are feeling flush you might be able to get an open box Clear for $839.00, although I would just stick with the Elex.

And the Elex's are not too hard to drive, although I seem to recall my DAP not doing a great job with them (Sony NW-ZX300).

Yeah, the Focal Elex is a name I keep hearing and the reduced price around $450 that I've seen in a few places seems very tempting. I think the only thing steering me away from that is that I really know next to nothing about them. I studied the HIFIMAN lineup more, and I know a bit more about people's impressions and descriptions of Senns, but when it comes to Focals and Audezes I haven't really done any study on them or what they're like.
For now I'll have the FiiO BTR7 or maybe swap to a K7, hopefully that is more than sufficient for a Focal Elex if I grab that. I think it's very likely I go with a duo of Senn 6__ + Elex or + Arya.

I went through All the Senn line-up, as far as the affordables go. I bought the HD58X's, HD600's (twice), HD6XX's (twice) and the HD660S's. None impressed me and I used many different amps.

And then I found the HD660S2's. These are the first Senn that I really liked! And just recently I pulled out the foam filters and I like them even more now.

IMO, these and the Elex's would be a hell of a pair! If you can grab these for $499.00 each, you will be a very happy man. The Senn's are all 300 Ohms, but surprisingly easy to drive.

Everyone has their favourites after a few years in the hobby and these two are some of mine.

 

[silvermuse]

I went through All the Senn line-up, as far as the affordables go. I bought the HD58X's, HD600's (twice), HD6XX's (twice) and the HD660S's. None impressed me and I used many different amps.

And then I found the HD660S2's. These are the first Senn that I really liked! And just recently I pulled out the foam filters and I like them even more now.

IMO, these and the Elex's would be a hell of a pair! If you can grab these for $499.00 each, you will be a very happy man. The Senn's are all 300 Ohms, but surprisingly easy to drive.

Everyone has their favourites after a few years in the hobby and these two are some of mine.

Yes, a very powerful option! I would be happy to go with an HD660S2 and an Elex for both in the $400-500 price range, which seems doable.

My follow-up question for you, then, is: have you heard the 800S? The 660S2 is nipping at the price of the 800S (I can see as low as $800), and I hear the 800S mentioned a lot but not the 660S2. As you've tried all of the affordable 6__'s and these, with lots of amps, I'm really curious what you think. It would be an option for a single-pair route.

Other question, any thought on the Arya? At the moment, thanks to your recommendation, I'm likely considering 2 out of the Arya, the 660S2, and the Elex. I'd love a huge soundstage on at least one of them with the Arya (assuming its like the EXS/Ananda in that regard), not sure how the others are, 660S2 seems like it could be big? Would you consider the Arya out of these 3?

 

[silvermuse]

If you're intrested I'll let my mid-fi cans go as a package for $450. Sundara, HD6xx, & DT 700 Pro X. Then you can sample them all. New pads on all, & upgraded balanced cable for Sundara.

Thank you for the offer, that's a very competitive price! I'll get in touch if I choose to go that route.