ENIGMAcoustics Dharma

[Stillhart]

   
The issue is that the Dharma may respond in unfavorable ways to the higher impedance output. I assume most of us want to make reasonable spending choices and $ spent on something I may not use doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

 
Apologies, I thought you were planning to buy an aftermarket cable either way and you were trying to decide which to buy.  If that were the case, buying balanced and getting an adapter for SE is always the way to go.
 
Since that's not the case and you won't be able to test both ports, I do want to comment on your question.  From looking at the specs on your unit, the XLR output seems to be fully balanced (as opposed to something like the Liquid Crimson where the XLR port is SE, and it's just there for convenience).  As such, it will be outputting double the power of the SE output.  I believe this is going to make a much bigger difference than the impedance.  It will give you much better driver control on the dynamic driver and that should directly translate into better sound.
 
With all other things equal, I'd agree that going for the lower impedance would be the right move.  But all other things are not equal and the power of the balanced output will certainly offset any losses in quality from the impedance difference.  Also, just to throw this out there, the "rule of 8" for impedance matching is controversial and not everyone agrees that it's such a big deal.
 
With a balanced DAC and balanced amp, I think it's a bit of a waste to only use the SE output.  You're losing a lot of power, plus the other benefits of balanced like noise rejection.  Hope this helps a bit.

 

[markm1]

That is a big help. Maybe I'll reconsider and as you cay, I can always try both with an adapter.

 

[coletrain104]

   
Apologies, I thought you were planning to buy an aftermarket cable either way and you were trying to decide which to buy.  If that were the case, buying balanced and getting an adapter for SE is always the way to go.
 
Since that's not the case and you won't be able to test both ports, I do want to comment on your question.  From looking at the specs on your unit, the XLR output seems to be fully balanced (as opposed to something like the Liquid Crimson where the XLR port is SE, and it's just there for convenience).  As such, it will be outputting double the power of the SE output.  I believe this is going to make a much bigger difference than the impedance.  It will give you much better driver control on the dynamic driver and that should directly translate into better sound.
 
With all other things equal, I'd agree that going for the lower impedance would be the right move.  But all other things are not equal and the power of the balanced output will certainly offset any losses in quality from the impedance difference.  Also, just to throw this out there, the "rule of 8" for impedance matching is controversial and not everyone agrees that it's such a big deal.
 
With a balanced DAC and balanced amp, I think it's a bit of a waste to only use the SE output.  You're losing a lot of power, plus the other benefits of balanced like noise rejection.  Hope this helps a bit.

Keep in mind that this design is not only low impedance, but has a crossover and has weird impedance curves (see innerfidelity), so I'd say impedance actually will probably be a bigger deal here. 
EDIT: If the design is already very low output balanced may double impedance, but only change the value by like .2 ohms or something. If this is the case balanced may be more correct. Or as for any change in sound, high impedance outputs might sound great to some people. I was just trying to state what would give the intended experience. Also the Athena A1 is SE.

 

[Benny-x]

  Keep in mind that this design is not only low impedance, but has a crossover and has weird impedance curves (see innerfidelity), so I'd say impedance actually will probably be a bigger deal here. 
EDIT: If the design is already very low output balanced may double impedance, but only change the value by like .2 ohms or something. If this is the case balanced may be more correct. Or as for any change in sound, high impedance outputs might sound great to some people. I was just trying to state what would give the intended experience. Also the Athena A1 is SE.

 
I'd go with the better proposed idea in getting a balanced cable and a single ended adaptor. This way Markm1 CAN have single ended if it's better or CAN have balanced if it turns out to be better. But if you just get an SE terminated cable you don't have the option to switch or try things out. The balanced cable also opens up the opportunity for other amps in the future or going to meets and trying the D1000s balanced on someone else's gear. All of these things are positives and only at the expense of a balanced to SE adaptor. Whereas going SE only costs you using them balanced all together minus buying a new cable.
 
Then this lets Markm1 get at the real question of "what will be better with my amp" because he'll be able to listen himself and know vs. having different people share their opinions about what it should be like due to what they believe. 

 

[markm1]

   
I'd go with the better proposed idea in getting a balanced cable and a single ended adaptor. This way Markm1 CAN have single ended if it's better or CAN have balanced if it turns out to be better. But if you just get an SE terminated cable you don't have the option to switch or try things out. The balanced cable also opens up the opportunity for other amps in the future or going to meets and trying the D1000s balanced on someone else's gear. All of these things are positives and only at the expense of a balanced to SE adaptor. Whereas going SE only costs you using them balanced all together minus buying a new cable.
 
Then this lets Markm1 get at the real question of "what will be better with my amp" because he'll be able to listen himself and know vs. having different people share their opinions about what it should be like due to what they believe. 

Thanks everyone-very well articulated Benny-X. I think I see the light

 or at least a sane rationalization. I just didn't want to throw unnecessary $ at the wind. But, yeah, that's a sound rationale.

 

[Benny-x]

Thanks everyone-very well articulated Benny-X. I think I see the light

 or at least a sane rationalization. I just didn't want to throw unnecessary $ at the wind. But, yeah, that's a sound rationale.

Happy to lend a hand. I got the tip a few years ago when I was asking a similar question.
 
There's a step further here, where you can then have any connection imaginable covered. You don't even need to get wild off the start, you can just make/have-made the ones that you need as you go.
 
The one small downside to the second method though, is that it's not terminated in any native connector, so you'd always have to use at least 1 adaptor. The guy who made them went with the 4pin Hirose connector for this reason, as it's small and doesn't add much weight AND it's locking. So once it's connected you're good to go. Anyway, if you care to look further down the rabbit hole and off into potentially covering future use case like 2.5mm TRRS for on the road use with an AK320 or something, the modular method is there for you.

 

[coletrain104]

   
I'd go with the better proposed idea in getting a balanced cable and a single ended adaptor. This way Markm1 CAN have single ended if it's better or CAN have balanced if it turns out to be better. But if you just get an SE terminated cable you don't have the option to switch or try things out. The balanced cable also opens up the opportunity for other amps in the future or going to meets and trying the D1000s balanced on someone else's gear. All of these things are positives and only at the expense of a balanced to SE adaptor. Whereas going SE only costs you using them balanced all together minus buying a new cable.
 
Then this lets Markm1 get at the real question of "what will be better with my amp" because he'll be able to listen himself and know vs. having different people share their opinions about what it should be like due to what they believe. 

I'm in agreement, I misunderstood. I thought he was asking balanced amp vs single ended, not an amp with both and the option to switch. What you described is what I do on my Geek Pulse XFi. Yeah, definitely good to listen and decide for oneself

 

[Whitigir]

Does anyone know where I can buy the plugs into the Dharma ? Seeing how it is detachable, I just want to maybe custom a cables to try balanced connection ?

It uses the same as hd800 plugs right ?

 

[bmichels]

Does anyone know where I can buy the plugs into the Dharma ? Seeing how it is detachable, I just want to maybe custom a cables to try balanced connection ?

It uses the same as hd800 plugs right ?

Yes. when I had Dhrama & HD800s for Testing, I used the HD800s Cable on the Dharma to go Balanced.

 

[Stillhart]

Does anyone know where I can buy the plugs into the Dharma ? Seeing how it is detachable, I just want to maybe custom a cables to try balanced connection ?

It uses the same as hd800 plugs right ?

 
Yes, but the port is recessed on the Dharma so some thicker HD800 plugs won't work.  You'll want stock plugs or thinner.

 

[uhhmike]

I am sampling a pair right now - got them from the cable company with an option to buy. Really digging them so far - I am thinking about purchasing em. I have tried the LCD-X, HM Edition X, HD 800s. Overall, I think I like these the most. The LCD-X I couldnt stand - didnt like anything but the bass. The Edition X didnt justify its price tag to me. And the HD 800 S, if I dont get these, would be an option. Also curious about the Ethers. I love these cans so far. 

 

[Whitigir]

I am sampling a pair right now - got them from the cable company with an option to buy. Really digging them so far - I am thinking about purchasing em. I have tried the LCD-X, HM Edition X, HD 800s. Overall, I think I like these the most. The LCD-X I couldnt stand - didnt like anything but the bass. The Edition X didnt justify its price tag to me. And the HD 800 S, if I dont get these, would be an option. Also curious about the Ethers. I love these cans so far. 

These are very nice but a pit source picky

 

[uhhmike]

I have only been listening for a short while. I am just trying to find a headphone I enjoy enough to buy and not want to re-sell in two months, to be frank. I had the Audeze EL8 and Hifiman 400i and sold them both - I just found things about them I didn't like after listening to em for a while. I currently use a pair of older (2002-03) Grado RS1s with a Mapletree Audio Design Ear+ HD tube amp. I cant stand the shrillness/treble/highs of the grado anymore, it sometimes hurts my ears. From all the headphones I've sampled, these are the most right - they are, to me, a good combination of a neutral sound (i.e. what the HD800S sounded like) and a fun, lively sound - like a grado. thats just how it sounds to me. i am new to this hobby and don't know how to explain it in musical terms (i.e. the analytical graphs I've seen). I just know they sound good - they're well balanced - not overly bass heavy, no shrill treble like Grado can be. I am really enjoying them - they breathe life into music. I reallly wanted to love the Senns - I think with a better/perfect amp compared to what I have, they might be awesome. But with my amp, they sounded almost sterile - i.e. not as much personality/not as much fun as these, and I don't have thousands to spend on a luxury amp right now. I really enjoy them so far, I havent made up my mind if I'm going to buy them. But I'm leaning towards it. 
 
Again - I'm new to this hobby - that's just how these headphones sound me . Nice combination of neutral and fun/lively sound. No major complaints so far. These headphone sseem to be polarizing - some people love them, some people say they have too many faults to be worthy of their price. I dig em though. 

 

[Whitigir]

I have only been listening for a short while. I am just trying to find a headphone I enjoy enough to buy and not want to re-sell in two months, to be frank. I had the Audeze EL8 and Hifiman 400i and sold them both - I just found things about them I didn't like after listening to em for a while. I currently use a pair of older (2002-03) Grado RS1s with a Mapletree Audio Design Ear+ HD tube amp. I cant stand the shrillness/treble/highs of the grado anymore, it sometimes hurts my ears. From all the headphones I've sampled, these are the most right - they are, to me, a good combination of a neutral sound (i.e. what the HD800S sounded like) and a fun, lively sound - like a grado. thats just how it sounds to me. i am new to this hobby and don't know how to explain it in musical terms (i.e. the analytical graphs I've seen). I just know they sound good - they're well balanced - not overly bass heavy, no shrill treble like Grado can be. I am really enjoying them - they breathe life into music. I reallly wanted to love the Senns - I think with a better/perfect amp compared to what I have, they might be awesome. But with my amp, they sounded almost sterile - i.e. not as much personality/not as much fun as these, and I don't have thousands to spend on a luxury amp right now. I really enjoy them so far, I havent made up my mind if I'm going to buy them. But I'm leaning towards it. 

Again - I'm new to this hobby - that's just how these headphones sound me . Nice combination of neutral and fun/lively sound. No major complaints so far. These headphone sseem to be polarizing - some people love them, some people say they have too many faults to be worthy of their price. I dig em though. 

I agree and they are indeed very nice, some people don't like them enough is just because of how picky at source the headphones is. it sounds very bad with bad or weak source. I love them so far

 

[uhhmike]

Whats your setup - amp,dac,source? From what I've heard, some stuff does sound funky - but I think thats just because its a bad/poorly made recording more than anything else. Because with all these albums, I've never liked the way they sounded with headphones I've had - they all just sounded wrong to me. So it's not the cans, it's the actual recording - so thats not the Dharmas fault. I'd rather have a headphone thats more neutral than overly colored (like a Grado) - even though the Dharma isnt as neutral sounding as the Senns - the downside is, a bad recording doesn't sound great.