[Bret Halford]

The BCD technology in the kinetic bass from FiR is different to UM and EE though. There isn’t a literal “bone conduction driver” inside these IEMs like how you can see the silver disc like driver in the Evo, Odyssey, Mentor, etc.

Like @Deezel177 said , I think a lot of the issues with custom bcd from EE actually stems more from their dual DD configurations, even the Legend X is quite a roomy CIEM, throw in some EST and BCD drivers and it requires even more space that just won’t work for a large majority of ears.

I am aware of this. FiR's is what I would call a competing implementation. It has its own drawbacks, but contact dependency is substantially reduced.

As you note (?) UM's BCD is relatively similar to EE's. They offer custom quadbrids and have for sometime. I frequently see impressions that note the BCD is more effective in the CIEM version.

 

[aaf evo]

I am aware of this. FiR's is what I would call a competing implementation. It has its own drawbacks, but contact dependency is substantially reduced.

As you note (?) UM's BCD is relatively similar to EE's. They offer custom quadbrids and have for sometime. I frequently see impressions that note the BCD is more effective in the CIEM version.

I heard both uni Mentor and now I have it as a custom, I can’t say with confidence I hear much of a difference between both as far as what the BCD is doing as it was clearly evident in the universal for me also. With that said, I never had them side by side to A/B and directly compare.

Also just to go back to my first point, I think a lot of it has to do with EE using 2 DDs for bass as opposed to 1, but don’t quote me there

 

[Bret Halford]

I heard both uni Mentor and now I have it as a custom, I can’t say with confidence I hear much of a difference between both as far as what the BCD is doing as it was clearly evident in the universal for me also. With that said, I never had them side by side to A/B and directly compare.

Also just to go back to my first point, I think a lot of it has to do with EE using 2 DDs for bass as opposed to 1, but don’t quote me there

I will quote you there
Odin has 2 W9 dynamics and is available in CIEM, I definitely think the constraint is the W10 BCD.

Most impressions I've seen comparing universal to CIEM has been for the MESTs (1 and 2), could be they refined it with Mentor... I doubt any of them more directly A/B's either.

If it's anything like Evo, with the right fit I wouldn't doubt it would be comparably effective... It's just with the big shells getting said right fit isn't always easy.

 

[aaf evo]

I will quote you there
Odin has 2 W9 dynamics and is available in CIEM, I definitely think the constraint is the W10 BCD.

Most impressions I've seen comparing universal to CIEM has been for the MESTs (1 and 2), could be they refined it with Mentor... I doubt any of them more directly A/B's either.

If it's anything like Evo, with the right fit I wouldn't doubt it would be comparably effective... It's just with the big shells getting said right fit isn't always easy.

Right but Odin is already noted on their website that it needs large ears and won’t work for everyone. The Legend X CIEM has also been available since like 2018(?), so it’s not impossible. I was just saying in general that using 2 DD’s makes the starting size for CIEMs already larger than a CIEM that uses one DD (like MEST) or none (like Mentor), for example. Throw in a BCD and 4 EST and you’re eliminating a lot of customers unless they’re born with satellite dishes for ears.

With all that said, I hope they figure it out.

 

[aaf evo]

Here’s my LX CIEM from 2018 I believe. As you can see EE had to put the 2 pin to the side of the shell and have it protrude out to make space for to and couldn’t even line up the logo straight because my ears are smaller. They made it work but now imagine trying to stick in 4 EST and a BCD too

 

[Deezel177]

That's a shame. EE's BCD seems to be quite contact dependent, I can only imagine how much more effective it would be with 100% custom contact.

Maybe it's time for a W11 (perhaps on that rumored Evo2)? There are competing BCD implementations already that don't seem as distance dependent and fit into quite compact shells. Several already offer quadbrids with BCD in CIEM (UM, FiR etc).

@aaf evo is correct. EE have shown they can make room for a BCD with their prototype CIEM, and they’ve shown they can make room for a pair of DDs with their Vantage, Nemesis, LX and ODIN CIEMs. The issue is having both plus 4 ESTs with their transformers and BAs on top of that. A W11 would make the problem even worse, because that would imply an 11mm BCD. (That’s what that number stands for, in case you didn’t know. ) I think the solution would be a case-by-case basis, where EE have to evaluate your impressions. Or, they can make massive shells like JH did for their Jolene. In either case, again, the safest bet really would be to not offer a CIEM option, at least for now.

The EVO 2 is also more wishful thinking than any sort of rumor. I think Raven will be their main, big-ticket release for this year.

 

[CL14715]

Someone say satellite ears?

 

[AboveNBeyond]

My custom LX here, i have medium-small ears and there is quite some space remaining in the shell...

 

[Bret Halford]

@aaf evo is correct. EE have shown they can make room for a BCD with their prototype CIEM, and they’ve shown they can make room for a pair of DDs with their Vantage, Nemesis, LX and ODIN CIEMs. The issue is having both plus 4 ESTs with their transformers and BAs on top of that. A W11 would make the problem even worse, because that would imply an 11mm BCD. (That’s what that number stands for, in case you didn’t know. ) I think the solution would be a case-by-case basis, where EE have to evaluate your impressions. Or, they can make massive shells like JH did for their Jolene. In either case, again, the safest bet really would be to not offer a CIEM option, at least for now.

The EVO 2 is also more wishful thinking than any sort of rumor. I think Raven will be their main, big-ticket release for this year.

Quadbrids have existed in CIEM form for a number of years. I find the competing quadbrid sitting on my desk - that uses a much smaller shell - more effective than EE's Evo sitting beside it (with a big boy Code 23 for extra contact coupling I might add). I'm not disputing that EE's current approach seems to take A LOT of volume, I'm just pointing out several others already do it better and smaller.

Certainly, it sounds like 2023 won't change this for EE with the Raven, I just hope that they will be able to make their technology more competitive in the future. There's no shortage of competing products for me to look at in the interim, so don't you worry about me

I'm going to stop derailing enthusiasm in this thread, by all means be excited! I'm disappointed with the shift away from CIEM at EE, but that's just me.

 

[Deezel177]

Quadbrids have existed in CIEM form for a number of years. I find the competing quadbrid sitting on my desk - that uses a much smaller shell - more effective than EE's Evo sitting beside it (with a big boy Code 23 for extra contact coupling I might add). I'm not disputing that EE's current approach seems to take A LOT of volume, I'm just pointing out several others already do it better and smaller.

Certainly, it sounds like 2023 won't change this for EE with the Raven, I just hope that they will be able to make their technology more competitive in the future. There's no shortage of competing products for me to look at in the interim, so don't you worry about me

I'm going to stop derailing enthusiasm in this thread, by all means be excited! I'm disappointed with the shift away from CIEM at EE, but that's just me.

I’m actually with you in that I’m disappointed to see less and less flagships available in custom form. I’ve refused to buy non-CIEM big ticket items for years now. Ultimately, I’m just speaking as someone who’s seen the innards of the Raven and how much space it all takes. Maybe the quadbrid you own doesn’t have 2DDs, or 4 ESTs, etc. BAs come in vastly different sizes too. Again, I’d love to see the Raven come in custom form. It’d be neck-and-neck with the VE prototype I heard at CanJam SG for my 2023 Christmas buy if it was. But, at the moment, it doesn’t seem likely.

 

[CL14715]

Quadbrids have existed in CIEM form for a number of years. I find the competing quadbrid sitting on my desk - that uses a much smaller shell - more effective than EE's Evo sitting beside it (with a big boy Code 23 for extra contact coupling I might add). I'm not disputing that EE's current approach seems to take A LOT of volume, I'm just pointing out several others already do it better and smaller.

Certainly, it sounds like 2023 won't change this for EE with the Raven, I just hope that they will be able to make their technology more competitive in the future. There's no shortage of competing products for me to look at in the interim, so don't you worry about me

I'm going to stop derailing enthusiasm in this thread, by all means be excited! I'm disappointed with the shift away from CIEM at EE, but that's just me.

What’s the competing quadbrid?

 

[oas11]

I think someone did say it already, but I’d imagine they’re looking into every possible way to make customs available, and they’ve had success with quadbrid designs, though unsure of driver counts.

https://twitter.com/empireears/status/1636461594187014144?s=46&t=y2RG6DSof_Pa17Xayf_8qg

 

[Deezel177]

I think someone did say it already, but I’d imagine they’re looking into every possible way to make customs available, and they’ve had success with quadbrid designs, though unsure of driver counts.

https://twitter.com/empireears/status/1636461594187014144?s=46&t=y2RG6DSof_Pa17Xayf_8qg

I’ve seen those prototypes on social media, and I believe a lot of them have just 1 DD and 1 BA. ‘Dunno of they’re all the same prototypes, though.

 

[Progisus]

Anyone else think EE can do better than the faceplate on the Raven? Hopefully it is just a prototype.

 

[stacey]

My custom LX here, i have medium-small ears and there is quite some space remaining in the shell...

Just because there’s space doesn’t mean it won’t potentially change the sound signature of the IEM by mounting all of the drivers inside.

That said even if the shell color and faceplate selection is restricted I’d still do a custom of the Raven it it’s available.