[ctsooner22]

My bad! I didn't mean to spark this type of conversation lol, I honestly just wanted to know if the Bravado sub-bass has more of a physical feel to it than normal bassy DDs. But my take away is that I'm going to have to save up money and attend my first Canjam to find out EE will definitely be at the top of my list though.

Not bad at all. I was just answering you, nothing more. ... was just sharing my thoughts. I love the sub bass on the Bravado. I feel that to my ears, it's one of the better buys in the IEM world. It's why I got one for the wife ...She has a better ear than I do as most women hear better than men. It's fun to me, because of the bass. I can't wait for it to get here and have it burn in. I like what I've heard of it so far, but I've not heard one broken in fully. Was told the bass will get better and better. That's a good thing.

 

[Bubblejuice]

Not bad at all. I was just answering you, nothing more. ... was just sharing my thoughts. I love the sub bass on the Bravado. I feel that to my ears, it's one of the better buys in the IEM world. It's why I got one for the wife ...She has a better ear than I do as most women hear better than men. It's fun to me, because of the bass. I can't wait for it to get here and have it burn in. I like what I've heard of it so far, but I've not heard one broken in fully. Was told the bass will get better and better. That's a good thing.

I really appreciate your answer I've noticed over time that discussions about "worth it" or "snake oil" or "comparisons" (on brand specific threads) tend to get heated really quickly and end up running in circles until everyone is tired. I didn't want to start that. I'm somewhat new to IEMs, but I've come to realize that my IEM endgame is probably going to be much much more expensive than my headphone endgame (which I've reached). Which is a hard concept for me to grasp right now when I look at tiny plastic earpieces vs my giant metal behemoth headspeakers. I was kind of disappointed a little by the Andromeda, which is considered to be "the IEM" by many (if not most), so it left me a little skeptical when it came to more expensive IEM brands. But, it's probably because I just haven't heard enough options yet.

IMHO it better to spend 1k going to CanJam and spend 1k on the IEM I loved best and call it a day, than to spend 2k on an IEM that I may or may not like. Also, the buy/sell process for trying out gear is exhausting, lol.

P.s. By plastic, I mean acrylic ;P But "plastic" got my point across better.

 

[tim0chan]

My bad! I didn't mean to spark this type of conversation lol, I honestly just wanted to know if the Bravado sub-bass has more of a physical feel to it than normal bassy DDs. But my take away is that I'm going to have to save up money and attend my first Canjam to find out EE will definitely be at the top of my list though.

When it comes to headphones, it's possible to figure out what kind of sound signature a headphone has by reading about it. But with IEMs, at least for me, it's very difficult.

The bravado reaches lower than the asg 2.5. happy? The extension is practically bottomless.

 

[olddude]

AK DAPs are not as overpriced as European cars from Mercedes and BMW...lol

THAT'S a whole other discussion.

 

[olddude]

The Andromeda is not considered to be the best by most. It's one of many in its price range. There are a number of other IEM's which are considered better. Some cost more, but the return is in sound quality or build quality. The only way to really know what you like is to try them until you find one you like, which can be difficult if there is nowhere near you to do so. I use these threads and forums to read up on various devices, I pm people who seem to like the same sound signature as I do, and eventually I either go to a manufacturer or a CanJam and try them out. Sometimes I've had to take a flyer, as I did with the Zeus, which paid off big time. Took nearly a year of due diligence, though. Sometimes we buy stuff, find we don't like it and sell it. Or we upgrade and sell the older stuff. Endgame is difficult when things keep improving. I had an endgame AK 240SS and then AK came out with a 380 and then an SP1000 which got such good reviews that I tried it and love it. My Zeus is, to my ears, more wow! than my new Phantom, which is a wow in a different category. They both are extremely excellent, but they are different excellent. Endgame is what you like at the point where you don't want to replace it. How long THAT lasts is up to you.

 

[koven]

@koven , Its interesting to think that you thought the Phantoms were a sidegrade to the Andromedas. To this I have a different opinion. I owned the andromeda for 2 years, so I think it would take me more than a sidegrade to upgrade to the Phantoms.

To sway away any shilling vibe from this thread, I strongly recommend people post their postings with which gear they used to listen/make a judgement call.
People coming in here making general statements like......Earphone A is better than Earphone B, doesn't paint the whole picture and isn't really helpful. Its not about putting together the most expensive gear, but Its really about synergy.

I see that koven here runs the andros from the hugo2, which I don't feel is the ideal oi for the andromedas because they sound bassy/congested compared to at an io of 1.5-3. This paired with the brighter sound signature from the Hugo 2 may balance out, but I haven't heard it extensively.

All I know from my perspective, sony daps starting from the zx2 have had much better good synergy with the andromedas and I prefer listening to them out of the Sony daps.

I think the andros are great, but the phantoms improved in the following areas.

The andros are hazy sounding, and aren't as precise in imaging and soundstage, particularly depth. Yes the sound is nice and airy with a slightly wider soundstage, but again, its somewhat hazy and not precise, especially in depth. Phantoms have much better imaging and soundstaging imo.

The andros have a timbre problem and it sounds slightly plastically and the airy sound is very fluffy. Its not a realistic timbre, lacking heft, and i find the bass to be not as good. People like this air, but imo its not really natural. Our ears get trained to hear this way and once we hear something more dense, we think it has less air. The andros are more treble tuned in their frequency response which don't help in this aspect. I find the Phantoms more grounded, with much better timbre, and better layering in all sounds. I listen mostly to classical and jazz, and therefore...this is a huge improvement and a must.

As you mentioned, the Phantoms are better in build quality/comfort. They are very light and almost feel like customs and everything is premium.

Also the Phantoms, when moving from my sony dap to desktop gear like my r2r soekris dac1541....scales much better in all of the aspects above than the andros.

So from a value perspective, was worth it? I believe so because its the small things that make the bigger differences at this level of iems. Though I love the andros, I don't see myself going back to them after the phantoms. I would have loved to save that money and invested it in other stuff if it was a sidegrade.

I always compare all iems to Real music I make(i'm a cellist), and compare them to my studio monitors which are usually superior.

Andros were always worse than studio monitors....and was worse than the focal clears.....which also got destroyed by my monitors. The phantoms...of course has its short comings as an iem, but it has its own unique presentation which I put almost on par with my monitors. So YMMV, but I think the phantoms are amazing. This is coming from someone who had no love for the Zeus XIV or the R.

That's a fair perspective. FWIW I demo'd the Phantom (and LX) vs Andro at CanJam with my V30 phone instead of Hugo 2.
I don't listen to any classical or jazz (unless you count Norah Jones as jazz...) so perhaps genre is a big variable here.
Overall I didn't notice much resolution gains vs Andro and personally speaking, Andro airiness and treble tuning are what puts a smile on my face, I found both of these attributes lacking a bit on the Phantom.
Phantom and LX both had superior bass but that's not a priority for me. My intention at CanJam was to demo flagships and purchase an upgrade but ultimately didn't find these two enticing enough despite all their positive qualities. I do like both over the CA Vega/Atlas but the Andro sound is so unique to me. I also like both over the entire 64A line except U18t.
Maybe my opinion would be different if I got to do a more thorough comparison at home in quiet, these events aren't the best to do critical listening. At this point if I had to upgrade from the Andro, it's looking like U18t or bust.

 

[Dithyrambes]

I dolove the andro air and treble too. I was a bit split on the phantoms in the beginning as well....especially coming from the andros it takes a bit of time to adjust. To clearly understand the difference, I listened to just the Phantoms for a couple of days. Still love the andromedas and if you still love them, I would say by all means...save some money until something really puts a smile on your face.

 

[davidmolliere]

I do like both over the CA Vega/Atlas but the Andro sound is so unique to me. I also like both over the entire 64A line except U18t

You had a listen of the Atlas? How is the tuning compared to the Vega?

 

[Sound~Patriot]

You had a listen of the Atlas? How is the tuning compared to the Vega?

They say it's like Vega on steroids .....so obviously bigger sound.....maybe even slightly more bass impact and more of everything. I love the Vega-tuning. More of everything would be too much for my ears, i guess. But mostly is the design bothering my eyes It looks a bit like a hairdryer and kind of too much bling bling....in my eyes the Atlas looks too weird.

 

[davidmolliere]

They say it's like Vega on steroids .....so obviously bigger sound.....even more bass impact and more of everything. I love the Vega-tuning. More of everything would be too much for my ears, i guess. But mostly is the design bothering my eyes It looks a bit like a hairdryer and kind of bling bling....

Hard to fathom a sound bigger than the Vega I loved the Vega but grew tired of them, maybe because they were my only pair for a while and they’re so energetic. For the same reason I couldn’t stick to the VE8 only, although the tuning is less extreme obviously. Maybe my tastes are changing but I could live with only the Phantom I would characterize as neutral warm with just the right amount of fun and bass kick. The IE800S are pretty good as well although they don’t have that ability to mesmerize me.

 

[Bubblejuice]

Anyone know if EE will be attending RMAF this year?

 

[Sound~Patriot]

Hard to fathom a sound bigger than the Vega I loved the Vega but grew tired of them, maybe because they were my only pair for a while and they’re so energetic. For the same reason I couldn’t stick to the VE8 only, although the tuning is less extreme obviously. Maybe my tastes are changing but I could live with only the Phantom I would characterize as neutral warm with just the right amount of fun and bass kick. The IE800S are pretty good as well although they don’t have that ability to mesmerize me.

True....the Phantom really hits my sweet spot as well. And yes, after nearly 80 hours of burn in (no i don't want to open this book again) i have to admit it even sounds better than out of the box.
Due to the fact the Atlas has the same signature like the Vega is see no need in purchasing it. I wouldn't use it anyway. But as i said....really....the design kills everything ..... this bling bling style is reason enough to resist.

 

[Kerouac]

I thought the LX was too bass heavy but did enjoy the Phantom, it reminded me of Andro signature in terms of a nice tonal balance... just not as airy and a bit warmer overall. LX was also much harder to drive (phone insuffcient). Ultimately I didn't see either as an SQ upgrade over the Andro, more of a sidegrade. But the aesthetics were best in class to me, the piano black finish and EA cables looked super classy and premium in person, better than all other flagship IEMs IMO. Was also nice of EE to offer 10-15% off as a show discount, almost pulled the trigger, maybe in the future.

@koven , Its interesting to think that you thought the Phantoms were a sidegrade to the Andromedas. To this I have a different opinion. I owned the andromeda for 2 years, so I think it would take me more than a sidegrade to upgrade to the Phantoms.

To sway away any shilling vibe from this thread, I strongly recommend people post their postings with which gear they used to listen/make a judgement call.
People coming in here making general statements like......Earphone A is better than Earphone B, doesn't paint the whole picture and isn't really helpful. Its not about putting together the most expensive gear, but Its really about synergy.

I see that koven here runs the andros from the hugo2, which I don't feel is the ideal oi for the andromedas because they sound bassy/congested compared to at an io of 1.5-3. This paired with the brighter sound signature from the Hugo 2 may balance out, but I haven't heard it extensively.

All I know from my perspective, sony daps starting from the zx2 have had much better good synergy with the andromedas and I prefer listening to them out of the Sony daps.

I think the andros are great, but the phantoms improved in the following areas.

The andros are hazy sounding, and aren't as precise in imaging and soundstage, particularly depth. Yes the sound is nice and airy with a slightly wider soundstage, but again, its somewhat hazy and not precise, especially in depth. Phantoms have much better imaging and soundstaging imo.

The andros have a timbre problem and it sounds slightly plastically and the airy sound is very fluffy. Its not a realistic timbre, lacking heft, and i find the bass to be not as good. People like this air, but imo its not really natural. Our ears get trained to hear this way and once we hear something more dense, we think it has less air. The andros are more treble tuned in their frequency response which don't help in this aspect. I find the Phantoms more grounded, with much better timbre, and better layering in all sounds. I listen mostly to classical and jazz, and therefore...this is a huge improvement and a must.

As you mentioned, the Phantoms are better in build quality/comfort. They are very light and almost feel like customs and everything is premium.

Also the Phantoms, when moving from my sony dap to desktop gear like my r2r soekris dac1541....scales much better in all of the aspects above than the andros.

So from a value perspective, was worth it? I believe so because its the small things that make the bigger differences at this level of iems. Though I love the andros, I don't see myself going back to them after the phantoms. I would have loved to save that money and invested it in other stuff if it was a sidegrade.

I always compare all iems to Real music I make(i'm a cellist), and compare them to my studio monitors which are usually superior.

Andros were always worse than studio monitors....and was worse than the focal clears.....which also got destroyed by my monitors. The phantoms...of course has its short comings as an iem, but it has its own unique presentation which I put almost on par with my monitors. So YMMV, but I think the phantoms are amazing. This is coming from someone who had no love for the Zeus XIV or the R.

I remembered that I wrote something about Phantom vs Andro/Vega in the past, after I had heard the Phantom prototype and somebody asked about it. After some searching I found that post

These days I have the custom Phantom and I also still have the Andro. The Andro is still mainly my OTG IEM when I go outside, as it's small and easy to put in / take out when necessary. Besides that I still like its dynamic and 'more fun than reference imo' tuned signature once in a while
But when I compare them in overall SQ I still absolutely (no doubt) consider the Phantom a clear upgrade over the Andromeda myself
So yeah, basically I agree with @Dithyrambes above opinion.

 

[Cagin]

Empire Ears fam still coming to London I July right?

 

[deafdoorknob]

brief impressions after 2+ hours auditioning the following, using zx300, ares II (se) and then dita truth spc (for 4.4 bal)

Bravado (spiral dots and Final E)
highest vfm by far, for me this is CFA Polaris killer, without its flaws (anorexic lower mids, too forward lower treble), not the most detail oriented but like the others in auditioned, it has a knack of sounding right and highly engaging, i actually prefer the bass of the single DD over the double DD vantage, bass has great texture and natural weight that is better than most BAs out there, more linear than Polaris, Lyra2. Very likable, for what i listen to, i liked it as much as my andros despite Andro's superior technicalites mids up. Dita Bal really controlled the bass quantity but preserving the texture and decay - think a cut down version of the aaw w900 with a smoother treble.

Vantage (spinfit tips)
think a more refined, linear, less dark take on the Aurisonics large DD hybrid sound, it's not etheral but earthy and organic without sacrificing details, dita cable/balanced controlled the bass better than SE, but the bass will always be somewhat present, those not as fruity as Vega. Kind of like the Fender FXA 11 but more laidback. Yup, laidback but not dark would be my assessment, i still prefer the quantity of the Bravado but could appreciate the additional refinement and spaciousness it renders.

Phantom (Spiral Dots, Spinfit)
If you want a more polite, universal version of the VE8, this is for you, most tip depdent as nic mentioned, sounded like a$$ with spinfit but i brought spiral dots with me, to me, its a less forward more midrangey spin of the VE8 tonality, personally i would still opt for the VE8 if i had the money but i could definitely appreciate its tonality, it reminded me of the bigger harbeth speakers or midrange Avalons (no wonder others find that it gets on well with ayre) I could also see how it not for those are into that stereotypical BA "ethereal" "hd" sound that andro (to an extent) or zeus or fourte is good at portraying, it's way more subtle than that. Didnt get well with the dita due to its already controlled bass, i preferred the lionheart which further its organic qualities, tho i could understand others might use a really resolution oriented cable to make it more overtly detailed or old skool EE.

I would still consider VE8 to be closest to my personal ideal (i have been spending an hour or two a week "auditioning" the VE8 for the past few months shhh...)

of the 3 auditioned, i would consider Bravado to be closest to being a no-brainer due to the bang for the buck
and the others are competitive alternatives to their respective price level.