[pfurey89]

You also have to understand most headphones and IEMs have some sort of compromise. If they didn’t, this entire forum wouldn’t exist. There’s character and tonal balance that plays into your own preferences. At the lower tier of headphones you simply have to live with more compromises than at the upper end, it doesn’t mean they’re not as fun or enjoyable.

 

[pfurey89]

Thank you for your comparison with Andro, would be a shame to think I was upgrading to a side grade>

The Tia stuff is a good upgrade to the Andro, imo.

 

[proedros]

the higher you go , not only the sound (usually) gets better , but as he diminishing return effect kicks in , you (usually) find it harder to spend lots of money for a 5-10% improvement in SQ

i am at that plateau atm (with Zeus XR) since last August and i have not any major upgraditis itch

which is nice , considering i spend the previous 6 years slowly but methodically moving from 100$ into 200$ into 300$ into 500$ into 800$ into 1000$ iems

Zeus is a nice place to stop and enjoy the music (and let your wallet take a breath)

 

[Bubblejuice]

It is, for IEMs. It’s a weird price point, imo. Andromeda is the best without question under $1k, just grab one used imo.

Funny enough, I think the Andromeda are good and all, but I didn't like them more than the LZ-A5 I had prior. I found them too warm, and the vocals were much too forward for me. But maybe if I used them for longer than 2 hours I would think differently.

 

[olddude]

AK daps are overpriced , at least this is the idea i get from people comparing them with other TOTL daps who perform better/equal than AK and cost way less than AK

EE ciems are OK priced , so i can not say that EE is like AK

i agree that this is a dangerous hobby , 7 years ago i had a 50$ walkman and a 10$ sony buds to listen to music - now it's something like 2.5K ciem (zeus XR) + 1000$ dap (wm1a)

And, see, I totally disagree. I've had other DAPs, and they weren't equivalent to AK's at all. But when you go by others' opinions, you never really know, do you. That was my point.

 

[Rin1990]

Empire Ears CIEMs have always been known for their reasonable pricing compared to other big titan companies or even companies like O-Bravo.

And best thing is you can always have a good talk with Jack himself for a discount should you be interested.

I cannot speak for other consumers but as one myself, Jack has been very supportive with his service.

That is about as much as I can say from my own stand.

So yeah.

 

[olddude]

As to IEM's, overpriced is relative. I found that the 846 didn't meet my needs, but it is a 1K IEM. I found the UERM and the Angie much better at the 1k-1.1k range. The Zeus is ever so much better at 2k. Ten times? No. But noticeably, smilingly better? Oh, yeah, Same with the AK's. AK, LPG, Sony Z are at the top, and they all cost above 2500. At least one considerably so. Are they equivalent to a 1K player that sounds "almos or as" good? Not to my ears. We all choose our price points. We all "settle" for the sound we are willing to pay for. I would have no issue with a lower-cost EE if it met my needs. And I don't see 600 as mid any more. It was, but with the glut of 2k+ IEMs, 1k is now mid. If people say the AK's or EE's are overpriced, they shouldn't buy one, but they will never know what they are missing. I've been there, and now I'm here.

 

[Rin1990]

As to IEM's, overpriced is relative. I found that the 846 didn't meet my needs, but it is a 1K IEM. I found the UERM and the Angie much better at the 1k-1.1k range. The Zeus is ever so much better at 2k. Ten times? No. But noticeably, smilingly better? Oh, yeah, Same with the AK's. AK, LPG, Sony Z are at the top, and they all cost above 2500. At least one considerably so. Are they equivalent to a 1K player that sounds "almos or as" good? Not to my ears. We all choose our price points. We all "settle" for the sound we are willing to pay for. I would have no issue with a lower-cost EE if it met my needs. And I don't see 600 as mid any more. It was, but with the glut of 2k+ IEMs, 1k is now mid. If people say the AK's or EE's are overpriced, they shouldn't buy one, but they will never know what they are missing. I've been there, and now I'm here.

Yeah.

The question of "pricing" has always been a matter about a person's sense of worth, no matter what.

If the person himself think "Well, I love this product so it's worth it." then it's justified, no matter what or how other naysayers go about it, it's the guy's money after all, what are you gonna do about it? LOL

But if a skeptical fellow thinks something is too much, like "WM1Z's a good DAP but I don't think I will spend the money for its price tag.", then it's justified too since not everyone can shell out a big amount of cash like that, and if they think they're not missing out too much, then it's their decisions, and no one should force the other way around down their throats regardless of what.

I mean...come on, at least we should respect what other people's concrete decisions are on something, right?

Sorry if I am being off-topic here, but this is just my own two cents. So...yeah.

Cheers.

 

[olddude]

Exactly!

 

[galangerz]

forgive my noob status

I once heard that you'd have to spend twice as much on IEM's than on headphones to get the same sound quality. Not doctrine, but you get the idea. IEM's for one thing haven't been around as long as headphones have, and it also caters to a different group.

someone said earlier that there's a compromise to be made when buying these; headphones usually give you a more closer experience to a real speaker set up, but IEM's can process finer details. you don't often see people out and about with their hifi audiogear, when it is more convenient to have a portable set up. as said earlier, it depends on the user, whether they will only listen to them at home, or if they'll listen on commute, heck you can have both.

I also think EE is more reasonably priced than the likes of 64 audio and Noble.

 

[ZzmadzZ]

Hmm, since we are at the topic of pricing. I still feel that EE pricing guidelines have not changed so drastically over the years as compared to certain brands.

I remembered in 2014 when EE first started, their Supra and Legend(TOTL) were priced similarly to the prices of their flankers and TOTL now.

Obviously gone are the days where we could get super awesome TOTL iems at below 2.5k. Now prices for TOTL are ridiculously high and some are even hitting the 6K mark where you can actually purchase a really decent 2.1 sound system at home.

I feel sorry right now when i talk to the young budding audiophiles 17-19 years old, fresh from school with limited cash. They do not have the luck like us to purchase an A12 with full customization for 1.6K or a Zeus.

But well i guess business is all about profits. But i am thankful that companies such as EE, CTM and some other brands have stuck with their pricing through out. It shows how much respect and pride they have in their products.

 

[ctsooner22]

There is no best for X price. It's all individual. As for headphones the LCD 2's to most, aren't in the same range as the ZMF Ori's or the Kennerton Odin's or even many of Dan's Mr Speaker designs. Zach and Dan right now are making some great stuff in the high end zone. I have owned Senn's for a long time as well as STax, but feel both are missing quantity in the bass regions. I also am not in love with the Senn's highs. Many others disagree. Again, to each their own.

We all have a different point of reference. I go to as much Iive music as I physically am able to (MS slows me down over the last 12 years). I also have a 2 channel system that is bordering on reference quality. To me a true reference speaker is a Vandersteen 7 mk2 at 62k. I'm a step or so down, but again, you are also talking incremental.

I bought the EE Bravado for the wife. It's a fun IEM and it sounds awesome. Is it reference IEM? No, it's from their 'fun' line. They have three lines with totally different sound profiles, but all of their IEM's are very good and worth the money.

When folks see how many man hours goes into making these IEM's, they'd realize that they are very very expensive to make. they are also made in the US and the labor costs for these skilled workers isn't free. We get what we are paying for I feel. JMHO

 

[Dithyrambes]

@koven , Its interesting to think that you thought the Phantoms were a sidegrade to the Andromedas. To this I have a different opinion. I owned the andromeda for 2 years, so I think it would take me more than a sidegrade to upgrade to the Phantoms.

To sway away any shilling vibe from this thread, I strongly recommend people post their postings with which gear they used to listen/make a judgement call.
People coming in here making general statements like......Earphone A is better than Earphone B, doesn't paint the whole picture and isn't really helpful. Its not about putting together the most expensive gear, but Its really about synergy.

I see that koven here runs the andros from the hugo2, which I don't feel is the ideal oi for the andromedas because they sound bassy/congested compared to at an io of 1.5-3. This paired with the brighter sound signature from the Hugo 2 may balance out, but I haven't heard it extensively.

All I know from my perspective, sony daps starting from the zx2 have had much better good synergy with the andromedas and I prefer listening to them out of the Sony daps.

I think the andros are great, but the phantoms improved in the following areas.

The andros are hazy sounding, and aren't as precise in imaging and soundstage, particularly depth. Yes the sound is nice and airy with a slightly wider soundstage, but again, its somewhat hazy and not precise, especially in depth. Phantoms have much better imaging and soundstaging imo.

The andros have a timbre problem and it sounds slightly plastically and the airy sound is very fluffy. Its not a realistic timbre, lacking heft, and i find the bass to be not as good. People like this air, but imo its not really natural. Our ears get trained to hear this way and once we hear something more dense, we think it has less air. The andros are more treble tuned in their frequency response which don't help in this aspect. I find the Phantoms more grounded, with much better timbre, and better layering in all sounds. I listen mostly to classical and jazz, and therefore...this is a huge improvement and a must.

As you mentioned, the Phantoms are better in build quality/comfort. They are very light and almost feel like customs and everything is premium.

Also the Phantoms, when moving from my sony dap to desktop gear like my r2r soekris dac1541....scales much better in all of the aspects above than the andros.

So from a value perspective, was worth it? I believe so because its the small things that make the bigger differences at this level of iems. Though I love the andros, I don't see myself going back to them after the phantoms. I would have loved to save that money and invested it in other stuff if it was a sidegrade.

I always compare all iems to Real music I make(i'm a cellist), and compare them to my studio monitors which are usually superior.

Andros were always worse than studio monitors....and was worse than the focal clears.....which also got destroyed by my monitors. The phantoms...of course has its short comings as an iem, but it has its own unique presentation which I put almost on par with my monitors. So YMMV, but I think the phantoms are amazing. This is coming from someone who had no love for the Zeus XIV or the R.

 

[cj3209]

And, see, I totally disagree. I've had other DAPs, and they weren't equivalent to AK's at all. But when you go by others' opinions, you never really know, do you. That was my point.

AK DAPs are not as overpriced as European cars from Mercedes and BMW...lol

 

[Bubblejuice]

There is no best for X price. It's all individual. As for headphones the LCD 2's to most, aren't in the same range as the ZMF Ori's or the Kennerton Odin's or even many of Dan's Mr Speaker designs. Zach and Dan right now are making some great stuff in the high end zone. I have owned Senn's for a long time as well as STax, but feel both are missing quantity in the bass regions. I also am not in love with the Senn's highs. Many others disagree. Again, to each their own.

We all have a different point of reference. I go to as much Iive music as I physically am able to (MS slows me down over the last 12 years). I also have a 2 channel system that is bordering on reference quality. To me a true reference speaker is a Vandersteen 7 mk2 at 62k. I'm a step or so down, but again, you are also talking incremental.

I bought the EE Bravado for the wife. It's a fun IEM and it sounds awesome. Is it reference IEM? No, it's from their 'fun' line. They have three lines with totally different sound profiles, but all of their IEM's are very good and worth the money.

When folks see how many man hours goes into making these IEM's, they'd realize that they are very very expensive to make. they are also made in the US and the labor costs for these skilled workers isn't free. We get what we are paying for I feel. JMHO

My bad! I didn't mean to spark this type of conversation lol, I honestly just wanted to know if the Bravado sub-bass has more of a physical feel to it than normal bassy DDs. But my take away is that I'm going to have to save up money and attend my first Canjam to find out EE will definitely be at the top of my list though.

When it comes to headphones, it's possible to figure out what kind of sound signature a headphone has by reading about it. But with IEMs, at least for me, it's very difficult.