[Kerouac]

The Warbler and the Phantom have similar approaches towards sound, but they do have some key differences. The Phantom has better extension both ways, which makes its bass more physical, visceral and defined (especially in the sub-bass), and the extra top-end reach gives the Phantom a cleaner stage, a more resolving midrange and better detail retrieval. The Warbler is smoother and more forgiving, with an overall mellower touch to instruments and vocals alike. Both display a similar tone, but the upper-treble roll-off makes the Warbler the slightly darker of the two. The Phantom is equally as natural, but excels in transparency by way of - again - superior treble extension.

Hmmm, that's an interesting answer. The fact that I usually agree on your very detailed signature descriptions and because I think you have way better hearing/writing skills than me, makes me doubt about what I would have answered in case I should not have read the above first
But hey, let's write it anyway (hope you don't mind, and of course I can be wrong), although my ears/brain receive the differences a bit different than yours.

To me the Warblers treble extension reaches a bit further, which gives it an extremely (micro detailed) touch and more 'Hey did I ever hear that before?' moments. But like you wrote, the Phantom has way more/better (sub)lows. It 'rumbles and growls' when needed, and has a fuller 'body and soul' signature than the Warbler to my ears. Both have a very natural timbre (Phantom even a bit more natural) indeed, and they both excell with vocals and instruments. The Phantom has a more holographic soundstage, which also contibutes to an even more realistic feeling imo. For instance: last night I listened to Neil Youngs 'Live at Massey Hall 1971 concert' and the Phantom just put me on front row, without the costs of a ticket. Now, the Prelude was also good at that, but the Phantom even took it a step further/deeper (closer to reality) imo.
One thing I'm pretty sure of though: we clearly both love our Prelude and Phantom, but it looks like we also both prefer the Phantom in the end

@hamhamhamsta: I see that you also have the SE5U in your collection. Imo the Phantom had even more similarities with that one, than with the Prelude. I was lucky that I could A-B test them both, when I had Nics prototype over here on a loan for the 2nd time. At that time I prefered the Phantom myself as it sounded more dynamic/energetic/alive to my ears than the SE5U. As I (think I) wrote before: the Phantom is my favourite IEM that I've heard (and I also had some great sounding totl models like the VE8 and A18 Tzar on a loan recently) so far, and imho you absolutely can't go wrong with it

Or, to put it in other words...

 

[proedros]

@Kerouac how is Phantom next to Zeus XR ?

I am gonna try Hugo 2 probably , curious how XR scale with it

 

[Kerouac]

@Kerouac how is Phantom next to Zeus XR ?

I am gonna try Hugo 2 probably , curious how XR scale with it

Well to put it in just one sentence: some IEMs (like the Zeus XR) can let you hear everything, where others (like the Phantom) can make you hear/feel everything
But that's just my humble opinion of course...and I still love the Zeus XR (which has superb synergy with the AK380Cu) as well => no plans of selling that one.

Although I had the Hugo (first edition) in the past, I sold it before I picked up the Zeus. Never heard the Hugo 2 myself, but I bet there should be some members around in this thread that have heard Zeus out of H2
I would be surprised if it shoudn't sound fantastic though.

 

[Deezel177]

Hmmm, that's an interesting answer. The fact that I usually agree on your very detailed signature descriptions and because I think you have way better hearing/writing skills than me, makes me doubt about what I would have answered in case I should not have read the above first
But hey, let's write it anyway (hope you don't mind, and of course I can be wrong), although my ears/brain receive the differences a bit different than yours.

To me the Warblers treble extension reaches a bit further, which gives it an extremely (micro detailed) touch and more 'Hey did I ever hear that before?' moments. But like you wrote, the Phantom has way more/better (sub)lows. It 'rumbles and growls' when needed, and has a fuller 'body and soul' signature than the Warbler to my ears. Both have a very natural timbre (Phantom even a bit more natural) indeed, and they both excell with vocals and instruments. The Phantom has a more holographic soundstage, which also contibutes to an even more realistic feeling imo. For instance: last night I listened to Neil Youngs 'Live at Massey Hall 1971 concert' and the Phantom just put me on front row, without the costs of a ticket. Now, the Prelude was also good at that, but the Phantom even took it a step further/deeper (closer to reality) imo.
One thing I'm pretty sure of though: we clearly both love our Prelude and Phantom, but it looks like we also both prefer the Phantom in the end

@hamhamhamsta: I see that you also have the SE5U in your collection. Imo the Phantom had even more similarities with that one, than with the Prelude. I was lucky that I could A-B test them both, when I had Nics prototype over here on a loan for the 2nd time. At that time I prefered the Phantom myself as it sounded more dynamic/energetic/alive to my ears than the SE5U. As I (think I) wrote before: the Phantom is my favourite IEM that I've heard (and I also had some great sounding totl models like the VE8 and A18 Tzar on a loan recently) so far, and imho you absolutely can't go wrong with it

Or, to put it in other words...

I think I see what you're getting at, but I think it's a case of the Prelude presenting details in a softer and more linear/coherent manner. Micro-details seem more apparent because your brain takes them in more easily. I hear the Phantom as having greater treble extension because of its cleaner, more transparent stage and its blacker background despite its bolder mid-bass compared to the Prelude. The Phantom does have what sounds like a more attenuated middle-treble compared to the Prelude (also a possible cause of its more subtle sense of detail), but the Prelude IMO has the warmer and fuller stage because of its upper-treble roll-off. Now, of course, this is how I personally determine treble extension and it may be different to yours. Nonetheless, I definitely agree when you say that we're in love with both IEMs, and I can't wait to hear more impressions of the Phantom to come in the near future.

 

[Kerouac]

I think I see what you're getting at, but I think it's a case of the Prelude presenting details in a softer and more linear/coherent manner. Micro-details seem more apparent because your brain takes them in more easily. I hear the Phantom as having greater treble extension because of its cleaner, more transparent stage and its blacker background despite its bolder mid-bass compared to the Prelude. The Phantom does have what sounds like a more attenuated middle-treble compared to the Prelude (also a possible cause of its more subtle sense of detail), but the Prelude IMO has the warmer and fuller stage because of its upper-treble roll-off. Now, of course, this is how I personally determine treble extension and it may be different to yours. Nonetheless, I definitely agree when you say that we're in love with both IEMs, and I can't wait to hear more impressions of the Phantom to come in the near future.

We're all good Daniel! And like I wrote: I have a huge respect for your (much better than mine) hearing and writing skills. I also wrote that I can be wrong (and I probably might be, in this specific case ). But I wanted to share my initial thoughts/opinion nonetheless after I had read @hamhamhamsta's question, and before I had read your answer on that. I consider having different opinions also as an interesting and positive thing (it's not a contest after all) and besides that it's nice to be able to discuss something like this with someone like you. No hurt feelings or (even worse) insults. Just a decent (and imo interesting) conversation, just the way it always should be imo

Cheers and happy listening my friend!

 

[Deezel177]

We're all good Daniel! And like I wrote: I have a huge respect for your (much better than mine) hearing and writing skills. I also wrote that I can be wrong (and I probably might be, in this specific case ). But I wanted to share my initial thoughts/opinion nonetheless after I had read @hamhamhamsta's question, and before I had read your answer on that. I consider having different opinions also as an interesting and positive thing (it's not a contest after all) and besides that it's nice to be able to discuss something like this with someone like you. No hurt feelings or (even worse) insults. Just a decent (and imo interesting) conversation, just the way it always should be imo

Cheers and happy listening my friend!

C'mon Erik, don't get all mushy on me! Of course I encourage different opinions and discussion, it's what keeps the spirit of this hobby alive IMO. There's no need for you (or anyone else, for that matter) to explain themselves in such discussions. I love delving into topics like this and they're nowhere near as "offensive" or "hurtful" as people seem to think they are. Happily listening to them as we speak, and I am having a jolly good time.

 

[Kerouac]

C'mon Erik, don't get all mushy on me!

Well, you know...

But I've just decided to sign up for an 'anger management' class. Hopefully they can teach me over there how to release that anger, that should be somewhere hidden inside of me

 

[subguy812]

Interesting... I have the IE800S and it happens every time I put them on. Maybe you had difference tips on?

I too hear driver flex with the IE800S although it is minor(very slight) compared to say my IMR R1 which has a great deal of it.

 

[Wyville]

Well to put it in just one sentence: some IEMs (like the Zeus XR) can let you hear everything, where others (like the Phantom) can make you hear/feel everything

I think that is a great way of putting it! I have not had much time with the Phantom yet (not as much as I would like), but it is abundantly clear that they let you experience the music. I am really impressed by how the Phantom invite you into the music and the feeling of immersion is the strongest I have had so far. This, I think, is not just because of the tonality, but also the outstanding depth of the stage. Combined with the level of clarity and air, it gives such a natural immersion; holographic and perfectly imaged. But that is essentially my first impression based on only a few hours so far.

 

[Layman1]

I'm curious how the soundstage and separation of the Zeus, Phantom and LegendX compare? (And the Bravado, if anyone has input on that too!)
I have the Noble Katana, which seems decent enough soundstage wise, but I heard the Zeus (forget which exact model) at London CanJam last year and I felt it to be much bigger in that regard?

 

[Deezel177]

I too hear driver flex with the IE800S although it is minor(very slight) compared to say my IMR R1 which has a great deal of it.

Yes, the IE800S’s driver flex is minimal. I guess it can be attributed to the two protruding ports on the back.

I'm curious how the soundstage and separation of the Zeus, Phantom and LegendX compare? (And the Bravado, if anyone has input on that too!)
I have the Noble Katana, which seems decent enough soundstage wise, but I heard the Zeus (forget which exact model) at London CanJam last year and I felt it to be much bigger in that regard?

The Katana has a relatively intimate stage because of its thick midrange notes and calmer upper-treble. The Zeus presents larger vocal notes, but its superior treble extension and upper-treble peak gives it a sense of airiness, openness and organisation that’s beyond that of the Katana IMO. The Legend X is slightly wider than the non-ADEL Zeus variants, with as much depth as the Zeus-R IIRC. The Phantom’s stage is dependent on the track usually, but it’s probably somewhere between the Katana and the Zeus on average because of its sense of body and its linear upper-treble. Though, in terms of stage organisation and finesse, it can rival the Zeus when fed the right material.

 

[crabdog]

I too hear driver flex with the IE800S although it is minor(very slight) compared to say my IMR R1 which has a great deal of it.

I've not experienced any driver flex whatsoever with the IE800S and I get a super good seal using the large silicone tips. I also get a good seal with the large foams but have a preference for silicone most of the time.

 

[Layman1]

The Katana has a relatively intimate stage because of its thick midrange notes and calmer upper-treble. The Zeus presents larger vocal notes, but its superior treble extension and upper-treble peak gives it a sense of airiness, openness and organisation that’s beyond that of the Katana IMO. The Legend X is slightly wider than the non-ADEL Zeus variants, with as much depth as the Zeus-R IIRC. The Phantom’s stage is dependent on the track usually, but it’s probably somewhere between the Katana and the Zeus on average because of its sense of body and its linear upper-treble. Though, in terms of stage organisation and finesse, it can rival the Zeus when fed the right material.

Thanks for this excellent and detailed breakdown! I haven't followed this thread much until now, but do you also have any experience with the Bravado?

 

[Deezel177]

Thanks for this excellent and detailed breakdown! I haven't followed this thread much until now, but do you also have any experience with the Bravado?

I do. You can read my detailed impressions on the entire line-up here: http://theheadphonelist.com/empire-ears-ep-x-launch-event-euphoria-audio-a-new-era/

 

[Mahalarp]

Just received it today pairing with my Effect Audio - Horus