Empire Ears - Discussion & Impressions (Formerly EarWerkz)
Apr 6, 2018 at 12:31 PM Post #12,421 of 40,606
Interesting!

Yes, I am very happy with the Legend X treble performance.

I see where you're going, stay within the same X family to get the X family sound, minus a bit of bass. Quick question, why the Vantage over the Nemesis?

Well, the Nemesis is Zeus-esque in that it has a lower-treble peak that causes that sense of artificial-ness in the top-end. It's personally not one of my favourite models, and it sounds more like a second-rate Legend X IMO. The Vantage is a "compromise" between the Phantom's naturalness and the Legend X's clarity and bass response. It's neither the former nor the latter, but it's a safe in-between whereas the Phantom requires you to fully appreciate its unique presentation and embrace its unforgiving nature.

I find the Legend X is be warm enough for me. Would the Vantage be too warm in that case?

I guess it really boils down to finding whatever comes closest to the Legend X sound with a little bass cut.

This is exactly why I recommend the Vantage over the Phantom in cases where the person asking is already happy with the general X-series signature. The Phantom would be far too warm, while the Vantage would be perfectly fine for you IMO. But, the Vantage is about as bass-y as the Legend X quantity wise, even though it has a different presentation. The Legend X's low-end is more thump-y and apparent, while the Vantage's bass is more atmospheric, rich and warm/analog. if the criteria is the Legend X with a little bass cut, maybe try out the Bravado as well. It has the clarity and crispness of the Legend X without too much of the fullness from the bass. Alternatively, you can try EQ-ing the bass down. Feedback from Legend X users here and in Singapore suggest that the bass does get more controlled and less prominent with burn-in.

Hi! While following this thread, I've been excited to try the LX and Phantom, given the many comments about how natural the tone is, conveyed through these. So do you feel the the Vantage has yet a more natural timbre than these two? Thanks!

No, the Vantage is more natural-sounding than the Legend X, but not as natural as the Phantom. It has an upper-treble lift similar to the LX, but the LX adds an upper-midrange bump for more presence and clarity in vocals. The Vantage - on the other hand - draws from its warmer and more voluminous bass to add richness and body to the midrange. The Phantom combines a linear low-end, a full-midrange and a shelved-yet-extended top-end to construct its natural and balanced presentation. As a result, the Vantage still has a degree of safety as to how agreeable it its towards different mixes, while the Phantom is more honest and transparent to these variations.
 
Apr 6, 2018 at 12:38 PM Post #12,422 of 40,606
My Legend Xs arrived last week (showing Packers pride!). Thanks to Ethan for guiding me through the selection and ordering process. A couple of comments. First, customs are awesome. These are my first customs (previously had universal versions of Noble K10 and Campfire Andromeda). The comfort is surprising. Obviously more comfortable than universal IEMs, and even more comfortable than my Sennheiser HD800. Its like nothing is there, except for the sound. Second, these IEMs provide terrific sound quality. Like ctsooner22, I have evolved from the 2-channel big rig arena. I use the Legends as my primary transducer in fixed locations, not just as portables. At present, my home setup is a Bryston BDP digital server, Berkeley Alpha DAC, and a Rupert Neve headphone amp. Good powercords and interconnects. It certainly rivals the sound of my big Martin Logan speakers with Class A monobloc amps. And I don't have to worry about the room, or speaker positioning, or complaints from other family members, or the perfect listening spot and chair, etc. The Legends are very dynamic. Occasionally startling. But for most of the music I listen to, quite balanced. Clarity is terrific. Bass is not omnipresent, but when called for, it is very there. Big soundstage. I now need to look for a top headphone amplifier. I was using a Ragnarok with my HD800, but I'm not so sure that is the best for a CIEM (although the Legend did sound very good out of it). There are few opinions out there regarding the best desktop amp for an IEM.


Jeff, my wife grew up in Wasusa and her family still lives there adn Madison. HUGE Packers fans! I have always liked them, so it's fun. I went to Oklahoma Univ and know kids on a bunch of different rosters who I root for, but I do have a couple of my childhood favorite teams, lol. She (and I) LOVE those CIEMS. Congrats on such a beautiful design. It will be timeless for sure!


As for the Phantom, I feel strongly that since it scales so well with top of the line gear and it has the ability to truly let us feel the emotion, it's giving us the micro and macro detail that other transducers just aren't giving us. In the end, we all talk about what signature these IEM's all have etc... What is even more important to those who love the music is answering the questions 'Do your CIEM's/IEM's take you there'.....are you at the venue or in the studio? Do you care if the IEM gives you the largest quantity of bass or are you just THERE and not thinking about teh bass. I want so badly to write a review of the Phantom. With my MS, I realize that it's so difficult to do a comprehensive review like I used to write, but the most important thing that I can share with anyone who may be on the fence is that with these CIEM's, I get lost in the music.

I will play my audiophile recordings on the AK380cu wiht or without the amp as well as the Ayre QX5. I'm not even in balanced mode and the Ayre sounds WAY better when used in true balanced differential. It's designed to be balanced. It doesn't matter, because I keep moving past these special high res or 2X DSD recordings and just listen to the regular 16/44 rebook stuff. I just keep listening and getting lost in the music. I'm listening to stuff that I don't even know and it's a blast.

Folks, I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but my home system is CRAZY GOOD. Ethan and many of the 2 channel guys can attest to that. I know what I'm listening to and for. We all hear differently etc...., but when there is a piece of gear that you know most will fall in love with it's special. The Phantom's are that special piece. I have at least heard most of the IEM's in this upper range either in Japan or at the show. I own a pair of Nobles. I have a great set of headphones (ZMF Ori's) that I'm going to sell as I only use the Phantom's on weekend mornings when I can't use my main system (yes it's still better to my ears than any desktop or portable rig).

I sold my pair of STax Lambda Pro's a few years ago as well as my Sennheiser 580's which I liked better than the 600's. Personally, it was one of their best designs after a great cable upgrade.

Yes, these Phantom's are just that good. They can't be broken down like we always want to do, but words and catch phrases that we all know and use. They can't be put up against other top IEM's in the same way that others are. I read a ton of threads on this board and I read the great reviews on Headphonia and a few other Headphone boards. Dean, wiht the help of a few have nailed this thing. The Legend X is a blast. It's a true high end IEM for sure, but it has a limited audience. Some just must have that quantity of bass that you can only get from a DD right now. I feel STRONGLY that in the not too distant future, we will see the DD's upgraded in the same way the cone's and driver assemblies have been upgraded for speakers. They will keep getting better and better and EE's is able to get their's custom made, so I think they will continue to lead the pack if you would.

The Phantom on the other hand is a tad forgiving, but not so much as to distort what was recorded. I have a friend who is well known in the industry for his recording/production work. I have been asking him to get a pair of Phantom's, but he resists. He likes to do his work with studio monitors or headphones. I'm hoping to eventually get him to try these as I think they are that good. Heck, Daniel works with them professionally and there is no way he would if he didn't feel they were a true reference. JMHO
 
Apr 6, 2018 at 12:53 PM Post #12,425 of 40,606
Thank you, Deezel. Your descriptions are very helpful!

I do think I'm going to have to give some time to let the Legend X settle down. I could easily live with it as-is most of the time. If it calms a bit, there might be no need at all for something else.
 
Apr 6, 2018 at 1:08 PM Post #12,426 of 40,606
Anyone that's going to Canjam SoCal here in LA yet?
 
Apr 6, 2018 at 2:45 PM Post #12,427 of 40,606
Thank you, Deezel. Your descriptions are very helpful!

I do think I'm going to have to give some time to let the Legend X settle down. I could easily live with it as-is most of the time. If it calms a bit, there might be no need at all for something else.

Wait until you get well over 100 hours on it. The bass will be down a bit, but it will tighten greatly and be much better. There will still be plenty of it for sure. Teh highs will sparkle, but be much better behaved and the same will happen with the mids. dynamic drivers themselves need time to burn in, but wires and crossovers need the most time and the more silver is used, the more time they will need. Many will disagree, but I am giving my wife a pair of Bravado's on Monday (if they get here before her trip) and I won't say a word. She will tell me how nice they sound etc... Once she hits about 75 hours, I can promise you she will ask if there is something wrong. I will ask her why and she will say that they sound different. IT will be a back and forth and then she'll probably ask if it's the same thing that happens whenever I get a new component in either of our main systems (2 channel). She doesn't understand a darn thing about burn in, nor does she ever want to. She just knows these things are like wine and get better in time. lol... Woman normally have much better hearing than men do, especially the highs. As bad as I am in handling harsh highs, she's worse.
 
Apr 6, 2018 at 3:29 PM Post #12,428 of 40,606
Just a casual question, on the technical side of things - reading the updated EE website, I see they are keen to highlight the fact that their bespoke BA drivers are incorporating ferrofluid.

As a long-time scanspeak softdome tweeter fan & user, on the 2ch fullsize hi-fi side of things, I know there are pros & cons to ferrofluid (Scanspeak have offered excellent tweeters with, and without, ferrofluid, for many years), but that's not the reason I'm raising the issue.

This isn't a 'better or worse' kind of question - it's just a simple question with no hidden agenda.

I don't know whether the ferrofluid in these BA drivers is 'partitioned-off' in an isolated chamber-within-a-chamber (probably is), or something else.

What I'm curious about is if the ferro-fluid prevents the possibility of the BA drivers being vented. Venting isn't necessary for a BA to perform superbly, of course, but it is one of many interesting ways CIEM designers have experimented with, to tune their designs, in recent years.
 
Apr 6, 2018 at 5:40 PM Post #12,429 of 40,606
I snagged the Phantoms from the classifieds and got them in last night and I echo what people are saying: they produce a very faithful and realistic sound. They are so good with rock and older classic tracks. I'm re-enjoying stuff like James Taylor and Simon and Garfunkel like I haven't in years (it helps that I watched The Graduate last night). I wasn't sure what to expect from these given that I have the Legend X and I feared they just pulled two dynamic drivers out and said okay, here are the Phantoms. Couldn't be further from the truth - the tuning is really special on these. They're like an improvement over my original S-EM6 in every way. Just great for singer/songwriter stuff.

Now, back to my Legend X review :)

-Collin-
 
Apr 6, 2018 at 7:25 PM Post #12,430 of 40,606
Hi, Been reading through this, the DX200 and Hugo 2 thread (ok a little Hiby R6 in there too) as of late and thought I'd toss this buying advice question to any of you in these threads that might've heard all four of these products and enjoy, umm..."problem solving"

After much whittling down I have the option to purchase either: DX200 w/Amp4 and Phantom ciem for $3500CAD or Hugo 2 w/ESR or similar neutral $1k ciem for $3700CAD. Hugo would be ran by Macbook Pro via Silflex optical (sounded better than AQ Cinnamon USB w/2x Jitterbug, SOTM or Sonore clearly would be better though)

Just had the opportunity with the DX200 to compare Tidal streaming to Offline mode to MicroSD and as much as I hoped not, MicroSD was clearly superior to either Tidal mode. Dammit. Offline was OK but I found Tidal streaming unlistenable (word?) after comparing the same track to MicroSD. Listening was with MD K10. I don't get the same obvious disparity in quality between Tidal and stored files when using Audirvana+ with my AQ DFR. Maybe Tidal on the Hugo 2 won't be such a compromise?

Does anyone know if the delta between the two ciem's is larger than between DX200/Hugo 2 or vice versa? Lol, Nope. Probably not hahahaha. Would be wonderful though! I'll have the chance to compare Bravado, Phantom and LX in a month or so when the dealer here in Toronto finally gets demos in but that's all he's bringing in!!! Surprised you can even be dealer without carrying the full lineup or at least, say like 5 lol, but whatever.

Just in case any of you rightfully ask, my preference is for a reference type of tuning. The only ear/headphone I haven't sold over the years are my ER4S lol, so yes, I can appreciate even the extremes....they are great for listening to podcasts on my commute though. That sweet, sweet isolation.

I do however come from high-end 2ch so imaging and realism are #1. Last headphones were Utopia's driven by CMA800R (SDR HD800's before hence the Questyle), so I'd really like to keep that you-are-there feeling I got with the Ute's. Is that even possible with ciem's lol? I had one pair of ciem's years ago, JH13FP, but hopefully they weren't the barometer for how ciems should be judged because they didn't touch the enjoyment I got from the Audeze's, HiFiMan's and HD800's back then.

Any advise would be very much appreciated
 
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Apr 6, 2018 at 7:43 PM Post #12,431 of 40,606
Hi, Been reading through this, the DX200 and Hugo 2 thread (k a little Hiby R6 in there too) as of late and thought I'd toss this buying advice question to any of you in these threads that might've heard all four of these products and enjoy, umm..."problem solving"

After much whittling down I have the option to purchase either: DX200 w/Amp4 and Phantom ciem for $3500CAD or Hugo 2 w/ESR or similar neutral $1k ciem for $3700CAD. Hugo would be ran by Macbook Pro via Silflex optical (sounded better than AQ Cinnamon USB w/2x Jitterbug, SOTM or Sonore clearly would be better though)

Just had the opportunity with the DX200 to compare Tidal streaming to Offline mode to MicroSD and as much as I hoped not, MicroSD was clearly superior to either Tidal mode. Damnit. Offline was OK but I found Tidal streaming unlistenable (word?) after comparing the same track to MicroSD. Listening was with MD K10. I don't get the same obvious disparity in quality between Tidal and stored files when using Audirvana+ with my AQ DFR. Maybe Tidal on the Hugo 2 won't be such a compromise?

Does anyone know if the delta between the two ciem's is larger than between DX200/Hugo 2 or vice versa? Lol, Nope. Probably not hahahaha. Would be wonderful though! I'll have the chance to compare Bravado, Phantom and LX in a month or so when the dealer here in Toronto finally gets demos in but that's all he's bringing in!!! Surprised you can even be dealer without carrying the full lineup or at least, say like 5 lol, but whatever.

Just in case any of you rightfully ask, my preference is for a reference type of tuning. The only ear/headphone I haven't sold over the years are my ER4S lol so yes, I can appreciate even the extremes....they are great for listening to podcasts on my commute though. That sweet, sweet isolation.

I do however come from high-end 2ch so imaging and realism are #1. Last headphones were Utopia's driven by CMA800R (SDR HD800's before hence the Questyle), so I'd really like to keep that you-are-there feeling I got with the Ute's. Is that even possible with ciem's lol? I had one pair of ciem's years ago, JH13FP, but hopefully they weren't the barometer for how ciems should be judged because they didn't touch the enjoyment I got from the Audeze's, HiFiMan's and HD800's back then.

Any advise would be very much appreciated
May I ask who will be the dealer in Toronto? Thanks.
 
Apr 6, 2018 at 10:23 PM Post #12,434 of 40,606
@Kerouac @Deezel177 I think by the Prelude's having more apparent micro details is because of its less bass quantity than the Phantom. The Prelude for me sounds leaner, and clearer because of that, not necessarily darker just that the treble is rolled off earlier. It may be a little less resolving. The Phantom however IMO has the more extended bass, and treble frequency, making its notes a bit thicker, better defined, and overall resolution higher. The Phantom's micro-details may be less apparent at first though due to it having more bass/thicker notes, and being in general warmer than the Prelude, making its details in the upper end stood out less.

@TheOracle Thank you for sharing your impression on the LX, and Zeus. A bit curious, may I ask what source/player were you using for testing them? In my experience with SP1000, I found that the LX's treble sounded more forward than the Zeus. And the Zeus neutral, more linear with its midrange. Neither tone is necessarily more artificial though in my perception/interpretation, taking into consideration their whole sound signature. Just wanted to share my input as well. YMMV. :)
 
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Apr 6, 2018 at 10:36 PM Post #12,435 of 40,606
Hi, Been reading through this, the DX200 and Hugo 2 thread (k a little Hiby R6 in there too) as of late and thought I'd toss this buying advice question to any of you in these threads that might've heard all four of these products and enjoy, umm..."problem solving"

After much whittling down I have the option to purchase either: DX200 w/Amp4 and Phantom ciem for $3500CAD or Hugo 2 w/ESR or similar neutral $1k ciem for $3700CAD. Hugo would be ran by Macbook Pro via Silflex optical (sounded better than AQ Cinnamon USB w/2x Jitterbug, SOTM or Sonore clearly would be better though)

Just had the opportunity with the DX200 to compare Tidal streaming to Offline mode to MicroSD and as much as I hoped not, MicroSD was clearly superior to either Tidal mode. Damnit. Offline was OK but I found Tidal streaming unlistenable (word?) after comparing the same track to MicroSD. Listening was with MD K10. I don't get the same obvious disparity in quality between Tidal and stored files when using Audirvana+ with my AQ DFR. Maybe Tidal on the Hugo 2 won't be such a compromise?

Does anyone know if the delta between the two ciem's is larger than between DX200/Hugo 2 or vice versa? Lol, Nope. Probably not hahahaha. Would be wonderful though! I'll have the chance to compare Bravado, Phantom and LX in a month or so when the dealer here in Toronto finally gets demos in but that's all he's bringing in!!! Surprised you can even be dealer without carrying the full lineup or at least, say like 5 lol, but whatever.

Just in case any of you rightfully ask, my preference is for a reference type of tuning. The only ear/headphone I haven't sold over the years are my ER4S lol so yes, I can appreciate even the extremes....they are great for listening to podcasts on my commute though. That sweet, sweet isolation.

I do however come from high-end 2ch so imaging and realism are #1. Last headphones were Utopia's driven by CMA800R (SDR HD800's before hence the Questyle), so I'd really like to keep that you-are-there feeling I got with the Ute's. Is that even possible with ciem's lol? I had one pair of ciem's years ago, JH13FP, but hopefully they weren't the barometer for how ciems should be judged because they didn't touch the enjoyment I got from the Audeze's, HiFiMan's and HD800's back then.

Any advise would be very much appreciated

How loud do you listen to music? Hugo 2 is really an awesome sounding device. But it has a caveat. Because it outputs a lot of power, it makes the IEMs quite loud in just 3-4 clicks on the volume wheel. This does not give us enough headroom to adjust the volume level. I listen at an average loudness of 75-80 dBSPL. If you listen at high volumes, I can't recommend the Hugo 2 enough. But with the recent price hike to $2.7k, I feel the price is steep. A used unit for $2k would be more reasonable.
 
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