Electrostatic Mini-Meet
Aug 28, 2005 at 6:02 PM Post #16 of 69
Wow, what a day! I am still overwhelmed nearly a day later.

As far as impressions, I can only offer some very unscientific opinions based on a smattering of not-very-long listening sessions with various combos available. Even when limiting a meet to electrostatics (mostly), one's listening pallet and brain capacity, can become overwhelmed with processing all the differences. Most of which are subtle, and require time and effort to discern. I also spend more time BS-ing with my fellow Head-Fiers than critical listening.

Still, there were some clear winners, and even some nice surprises.

I will start at the top: The Sennheiser Orpheus system (HE90 headphone, paired with the HEV90 amplifier) is the best phone/amp combo - period. Compared to when listened to out of other high-end electrostatic amplifiers, the HE90 truly achieved a magical quality when paired with its true birth sibling that was easily discrernable, imo. Throw in a stellar Meitner SACD source, and your are in absolute heaven. Hands-down, slam-dunk, take-no-prisoners, winning combo. Everything right. Absolutely nothing to criticize. Simply superb. Lean back, and just listen. 'Nuff said.

Second in line would be the HE90 with the black-gated KGSS - terrific combo, and only not as seductive when compared to the HEV90. This system was using a Meridian G8 source, which I tend to find neutral to the point of boring, so that may have had something to do with it also (*qualifier: I seem to find all Meridian sources I've heard at meets that way, so take my opinion there with the chunk of salt required). Even still, the HE90 excelled again. Maybe there are some tweaks than can be done with the KGSS to mate it even better with the HE90's?

We didn't have a Blue Hawaii on hand, and I wonder if a tubed Gilmore would bring the HE90's that nth-degree closer to the Orpheus system level? The Singlepower amp, which is a tubed amp (unique, point-to-point design by Mikail, also based on the EL34 tube), did not do anything for me today. There was just enough "off" about that amp with both the HE90's and the Omega II's, that it failed to compel to listen more with all of the other spectacular gear in the same room today. In the brief time I listened to it, it actually seemed to sound better with the Omega II's than the HE90's for some reason. This amp is still a work in progress, and is slated to get a power supply upgrade & some other tweaks very soon, so I look forward to listening to it again in the future. For now though, my bottom line is that it is not ready for primetime.

The HE60's are a very fun headphone. When paired with the KGSS, it exhibited a better controlled top-end than with the HE70 or Stax 007T amps I've heard them on in the past. Still, they are a faster sounding can than both the Staxes and the HE90. Rock and roll music - guitar riffs & drum snares in particular - are this 'phones forte These sounds sizzle with accuracy in the forefront of their sound/headstage. They are the Grado of the e-stat world, imo. On their own, there is a lot to like. But when compared to the HE90, there is no comparison, There is no family resemblance to me. They might as well be made by another company, they are that different to me. I did not take the opportunity to hear them plugged into the HEV90 amp, and was told vastly differing opinions (pros & cons) by others in attendance about that combo. Again, they are a very competent headphone. But prices for used models are at an all-time high (something I attribute to the HE90 craze, as others look for less expensive alternatives), so their value is greatly diminished for me. They have been said to be XX-percent of the HE90's. Perhaps I might say they are 70-75%. But which 70% does it have, and what 30% is it missing?

The Omega II's have been a favorite of mind for some time. I've heard them many times over the past couple of years, and always enjoyed them. Today, after not having heard them in a while, they sounded too bass-heavy for my current tastes. They are wonderfully open (unlike the HE60's), & have a great midrange. But the lower frequencies overwhelmed the all music to the point of distraction today. Maybe my tastes are changing *shrug*.

There was a pair of Stax Lamda Professional headphones on-hand. I included them in my comparisons between the others, and to my surprise, silently preferred them over the O2's and the HE60! It was not until Bozebutton's non-audiophile daughter compared the older Lamdas to the O2's and said she thought they sounded more "like you are in the studio". At that point, those of us who had listened to them all shouted in surprising agreement - LOL! The Lamdas have a wonderfull accuracy, without a trace of harshness (better in many respects than the HE60). My only real criticism is their somewhat compressed soundstage. They lack the air that the higher-end cans possess. But what they do, they do very well, imo. They piqued my curiosity for the current Lamda line. But at least one member in attendance who has spent time with the SR404's, thought the Lamda Pro's sounded better. I predict a rush on A-gon & eBay for similiar units.

There were a couple of dynamic cans on-hand as well. The Qualia 010's, and AKG K1000's are two headphones that compete very well with the accuracy and detail that electrostats offer, when assembled in the right system. I like them both. 'Nuff said on that.

So for you HE90 purchasers, you have a many options in front of you, many of which were not represented at this mini-meet. Finding an HEV90 is the ideal, but may prove difficult to impossible at this point in time. Still, it may be worth some effort pursuing. The currently produced amps all present good values, but offer varying strengths and weaknesses that you have to rate for yourself. I strongly suggest actual listening sessions with as many amps as possible, and not rely on heresay or rumors. For the tube-based amps, you have even more variables to consider and try. I would also factor 'support' as a very important criteria for selecting an amp builder, for both tweakability (is that a word?
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) and potential repairs down the road.

Regardless, the HE90's are the best headphone out there, and you will be rewarded with a sonic experience unrivaled elsewhere in the headphone world. If you can afford it, your money will be well spent.

Getting together with fellow Head-Fier's is always a pleasant experience. Catching up with old friends, and meeting new one's is a very nice way to spend an afternoon. Thanks to Bozebuttons, and his ever-patient family, for putting up with our crazyness. We couldn't do this without you, and your unbounded generosity is greatly appreciated.
 
Aug 28, 2005 at 6:15 PM Post #17 of 69
Threads merged.
 
Aug 28, 2005 at 6:25 PM Post #19 of 69
It was a wonderful little mini-meet, actually it wasn't that little as mini-meets go, but since I knew everyone except jjcha in attendance, it was more a gathering of friends than an attempt to break the bounds of audiophildom (although given the gear on hand, it did pretty well in that arena also). Thanks again for hosting Tom, I appreciate it since I am one of the "lucky 18" and the question of an amplifier for the HE-90 is more than a intellectual curioisity for me.

First, before getting to the meat of the meet, let's dispense with the side issues!
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I really enjoyed Tom's setup with the Qualia and the modified Krell. I never quite got rid of the echo but it was pretty minor. I think I would be looking for a similar sound if I ever pick up one of these headphones. I really liked the fast solid state signture along with the detail of the Qualias. Very clean, very clear, very fast, very neutral which is what I like in a headphone setup.

The Stax still aren't the headphones for me. I really enjoyed them out of Mikhail's prototype but they were less enjoyable for me on the other gear. While they were good headphones I really didn't hear anything that made me say, WOW, I need to add these to my collection.

All right, now that we've dispensed with the side issues, let's move on to the real point of the meet, the HE-90. As when I heard Tom's setup previously, it was excellent out of the HEV-90. It never really seems to be overtly trying to impress but it never seems to put it's foot wrong either. The sound stage was remarkable, very enveloping and more like a speaker than a headphone. I did catch this setup in one faux pas though, it really couldn't handle the bass on a reggae track I had brought along. It seriously softened the bass and lost the attack it should have had. All in all though, this amp had the highest percentage of hitting the "magic" level for me. Other than that reggae track it handled everything I threw at it with aplomb. I could definitely see myself being very happy with one of these!
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HeadAmp is in the development stages on an amplfier which will be a clone of the Orpheus with improved parts throughout. After spending more time with the HEV-90, I don't think this will be an easy task, though if Justin can pull it off, I think it would be one amazing amplifier, for instance I don't think Justin would let it out the door with the bass response I heard. in spite of Justin's prodigious talents, there are many impediments to this development effort and it might require some time to complete. From talking to Justin, he seems to be undertaking this project from the point of view of personal pride in producing the finest amplfier for the finest headphone that has ever been made. This means I would expect he will be throwing himself into this full force. OTOH, I don't think he has an HE-90 sitting around to compare his work to which will make the effort much tougher.

One characteristic that should be menitoned about both the amplfiers other than the HE-90 is that they both sufferred from channel imbalance with the HE-90. Since neither amplifier suffered from the problem with the Stax headphones, it seems like there might be something unusual going on with the HE-90s and one side requires more power than the other. I can't think of a reason why this would be, but the effects were certainly there.

Next up was Mikhail's prototype amplifier. With the music I was listening to at the last NYC meet, I thought this amplifier edged out the HEV-90 by a nose. Unfortunately this time it didn't fare as well but as a prototype, it shows some real promise for the future. One of the key differences this time around is that I had some musical selections to throw at it instead of relying on other folks music. This amplifier had been tuned with the Stax headphones in mind and it showed. The Stax sounded very good with it but the same tweaks which made it work successfully with the Stax hampered it's performance with the HE-90s. The manner in which the sound enveloped you was not as competitive with what the HEV-90 was able to produce. Of course, it should be noted in passing that I have never heard anything approach the HE-90/HEV-90 combination so it isn't entirely unexpected. Unlike the HEV-90 which tried (however unsuccessfully) to reproduce the bass on the reggae tracks, the bass was AWOL on this amplifier which I would ascribe to the tuning for the stronger bass of the Stax headphone. The Stax + amp showing on the reggae track wasn't stellar but it was solid, give it 98% and a gold star for effort. Of course with different tubes...
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I have enough faith in Mikhail's skills that I think whould he choose to, he will be able to carry it off. I think it will require a greater investment of time to bring this to the same level of polish and art as is displayed in the Supra-XLR. The Supra-XLR is not going up against amplfiers at the level of the HE-90/HEV-90 although it's task is more complex in that it must drive a variety of headphones instead of being optimized for just one. The Orpheus system would never have remained at the top of the heap as long as it has if it were easy to copy. The interesting question here is "will the market be interesting enough and have enough volume or other benefits such as marketing value, that Mikhail will be willing to make the investment in time versus other areas he could explore?" I certainly hope the answer is yes because with enough of Mikhail's attention I think he can produce an amplifier which is very competitive with the Orpheus although I believe it would have different strengths.

Lastly, the Black Gated KGSS. This was a very solid amplifier with excellent detail. I heard this driven by the G-08 instead of the Meitner gear so it had a strike against it to begin with. It didn't hit the heights that the HEV-90 and ES-1 did, but it also didn't hit the lows... err, or actually, it hit the lows better if you're discussing frequency response. This was the one amplifier which could produce the bass on the reggae track cleanly and 100% correctly. The only fault I could find with it is that it could have used a bit more warmth on some of the tracks and it never really hit the "magic" level although on most of the tracks it was technically without any faults that I could hear. Of course, being that there is something called the Blue Hawaii output stage the warmth concern can be addressed although whether or not it will hit the same heights as the Orpheus system is certainly debatable. It was unique though in that it didn't fall down and embarass itself on anything I threw at it. I personally think that an amplifier at this level should be able to handle anything and everything that comes it's way smoothly and with grace.
 
Aug 28, 2005 at 6:28 PM Post #20 of 69
Quote:

Originally Posted by Canman
Interestingly, the HE-90 is the more forgiving headphone. This is a double edged sword though: with metal like gpalmer’s Megadeth CD, the HE-60 rocks out a bit more and allows more of the distortion through that is part of the metal experience. One may or may not be inclined for such an experience.
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Oh god, there goes my credibility!
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Aug 28, 2005 at 6:44 PM Post #21 of 69
Some more photos:

cool HEV-90 tubecages:
HEV90_tubecage.jpg


bozebuttons equipment rack:
bozebuttons_setup.jpg


Stack of good stuff:
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Singlepower prototype:
singlepower_esproto.jpg


Singlepower prototype power supply:
singlepower_esproto_ps.jpg


"I think I'll see how Megadeth sounds with the HE-90"
(Is that RS-1 the electrostatic version?):
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Aug 28, 2005 at 8:05 PM Post #22 of 69
Gentlemen, thank you for taking the time to write your impressions and for Boze for making the meet happen. Reading them has made my Sunday morning. One thing I learned from these impressions is that I am glad I already have the KGSS, which I really enjoy with the Omega II. At this point, I will follow Boze's advice to sit tight and enjoy the HE90 with the KGSS before deciding on anything. Looks like there will be exciting developments in the world of electrostatic amps, fun times ahead.

----Pat
 
Aug 28, 2005 at 9:24 PM Post #23 of 69
Thanks everyone for all the impressions!
Those who listened through the HE60/HEV90 combo, could you comment on how it sounds compared to the HE60 paired with other amps?
Thanks again,

Hugo
 
Aug 28, 2005 at 9:39 PM Post #24 of 69
Had a great time with a fine group of Headphone regulars.
The HE90 and matching amp had the synergy you want and was harmonically fleshed out...Top class all the way to my ears.
The HE90s and KGSS was right behind, a bit stronger bass and excellent control but jut a smidge of tube warmth was missing compared to the HEv90. Might even be more true to what was on the silver platter but I do like what the tubes do.
The Stax 007T was okay as was the Singlepower but both were bettered on this day.

The HE60s were a very big surprise. I loved them. Excellent midrange and percieved speed.

The Lamdas are really enjoyable, more alive and punchy then the Omegas if not as refined.Brian the soundstage is HUGE, HUGE, HUGE when used with the matching Stax far field diffuser. The phones disappear and soundstage width is like the Qualias...wall to wall. I love those Lamdas, more than the newer models.

The Omegas were Omegas....all business. Really, really excellent but not great as are the Orpheus 90.

I dug the Stax SRX mk3...very alive but not for bass lovers.

Thanks
 
Aug 28, 2005 at 9:45 PM Post #25 of 69
Canman,
Your comparison between the Baby and the Daddy Orpheus has been the most informative one I've read to date.
Thanks a lot!
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Hugo
 
Aug 29, 2005 at 12:22 AM Post #26 of 69
Another great meet goes down in Head-Fi history, and as usual, Tom is in the epicenter.
Not only is Tom an unselfish person, but he also has an uncanny knack of being "down to earth" and knowledgeable in the hobby that we call "Head-Fi".
 
Aug 29, 2005 at 4:03 PM Post #27 of 69
this may have been the mother of all mini-meets. exclusively electostatic mini-meets are not all that common yet.

my thanks to tom & his family for the hospitality & to everyone who showed up & to everyone who brought electrostatic equipment. there was a few surprises for me which i will have to keep quiet about for now until i get my hands on them. tom & danny, your cooperation would be greatly appreciated.

thanks to canman for going above & beyond the call of duty to pick hirsch & me up at the airport which was 1 hour out of his way & to jjcha for calling us a taxi back.

regrets to all those who could not attend due to prior engagements. it would have been even better if you all could have made the scene.

i won't get into impressions because they have been pretty well articulated already.
 
Aug 29, 2005 at 4:37 PM Post #28 of 69
Quote:

Originally Posted by bozebuttons
All in all the meet went very well ,always great hanging out with other Headfiers & meeting new ones jjcha(first time meeting Jason) & spending more time with gpalma (meet Greg at the last NY meet).


gpalma, gpalmer, what'eva... you're in New Yawk now, buddy!
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Aug 29, 2005 at 5:30 PM Post #29 of 69
Isn't it funny we had back to back NYC minimeets? Poor JJCha must be tuckered out!
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That just goes to show you that we NYCers can't help ourselves - if there's not at least one big meet each season, it spills over into tiny little stopgap meets
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Glad you all had a great time checking out the Electrostat gear over there!
 
Aug 30, 2005 at 8:40 PM Post #30 of 69
HE90 and HEV90 had it together, and were the best sound there. All of the other electrostatic amps seemed to have issues with the HE90 (KGSS, Singlepower prototype, and Stax SRM-007t). It's not clear to me what was going on, but there seemed to be a channel imbalance with all amps but the HEV90. Sennheiser clearly had something going with the HEV90 that other amps have not yet replicated. Even with the HE90/HEV90, I didn't feel that I was getting all the detail that's present. Using familiar recordings, I didn't think that I was getting all of the detail that I normally hear in my dynamic rigs...and electrostatic headphones are supposed to be about detail. Curious, and not explainable by me.

The Singlepower prototype seemed to bring out the best of the SRM-007t. I'm normally not a fan of this headphone. I may have to rethink that...

...but then listened to the Stax Lambda Pro on the SRM-007t. In direct comparison with the Omega II, I'd take the Lambda Pro (age and cost nothwithstanding). That headphone was almost as good in the 007t as the HE60, and that's damn good. The Omega II can come alive in other amps, particularly the Singlepower and HEV90, but the Lambda Pro is the Stax headphone for the Stax amp. That's a relief, as I previously thought the Stax amp was really made for Sennheisers. There was no SR-404 present, but I believe the Lambda Pro to be the better headphone. i've done the same comparison with the same Omega II using SR-404 at other times, and the Omega II was clearly better, by a lot. Not this time. I'm starting to wonder if the SR-404 is actually a downgrade from the previous Lambda series. There's even a nag in the back of my mind that the Omega II may be a letdown from the previous Lambda series.

Stax SRX mkIII had a superb midrange, but there was a harshness at the top end that I didn't hear in the newer headphones. Still, the older Stax had a wonderful sound.

The Meitner gear continues to amaze me with SACD. However, this time around I threw it some curves with some redbook material that I knew well. On redbook, I'm not convinced that I heard major advances over the G08. Improvement, yes, major, no. Still, the improvement playing SACD is dramatic and large. If the selection of SACD's was large enough to feed my music jones, I'd have to find a way to get an EMMLabs rig. The EMMLabs playing SACD through the Orpheus rig may be the best sound I've heard out of headphones. However, since I normally use redbook or vinyl, I think I can sit where I am, sourcewise, at least for awhile.

Moving to dynamic rigs, bozebuttons has a cable made by Grado to drive dynamic headphones from a power amp. Hooked to new Dared monoblocks w/ Western Electric 300B's, the sound of the HP-1 and RS-1 was superb. The Dareds are also excellent with the K-1000. An excellent little pair of amps (with the current upgraded parts and W.E. tubes).

All in all, a great afternoon. Thanks to Tom and his lovely wife for hosting this.

When gpalmer turned on the Megadeath CD and cranked the volume on the HE90, I was sitting ten feet away, and still thought that Tom had turned on his speaker rig.
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