[seanwee]

Absolutely, matching volume is so important- things always sound better with more juice. And if dap b has just a touch more than dap c even though dap b may be technically and sonically better that little bit of volume boost can turn the tables.

Best done with a db meter or multimeter to be sure outputs are the same. It's hard to get exact matches by ear.

A dB meter works better because different current and voltage swings are harder to match and may not equate to the same spl.

 

[jmills8]

Well it isn't just lbasso, the only manufacturer I've seen that uses those big Panasonic caps is Sony in their mid and flagship stuff- zx300 and up. They're very easy to spot on the board- big gold and black radial caps.

And of course, one mod might sound better to some than others It's possible you might not like the 'modded' sound signature as well as the vanilla one. Also last but not least, there is always the chance of screwing something up, and of course you automatically void the warranty. Just Food for thought.

I know I can easily switch them out and back if I don't like the results. But I wouldn't recommend it if your not confident in your soldering skills And in my case I will probably be very happy with the stock amp anyways.

If Sony does it so well then why you not using a Sony ? I had the top three Sony daps and all were ok but not great.

 

[abitdeef]

That's partly the reason why I want the highest quality components that make a difference in there to begin with. Value is another part. Last but not least, I'll take my chances with the sound signature of higher quality components. It would be pretty funny if my impression that the imaging of the ZX300 was more precise has something to do with these caps. Note how the poster referred to depth in describing the positive effect... *sigh*

Is something legal perhaps a factor? Behind the scenes arrangements? Or is it just big time penny pinching?

I don't think it's penny pinching, Nichicon caps are very good too. I can't second guess ibasso's engineers, and I haven't heard the dx220 yet. Also the iem or headphone used is also a factor- I've had some iems play better with certain daps. In Sonys case they always seem have a big vivid widecsoundstage with their daps.

They have their own sound and use their own class D amps. I always thought they had some dsp stuff going on in the background to help things out. For instance wm1a and zx300 almost have a reverb effect if you listen close. At least to my ears.

 

[rutter]

Hmm, if I want both SE and balanced outputs on 1 amp module I'm stuck with the stock module?

If so, would it be worth it to mod?

I say definitely worth it, just replaced the two nichicon fw caps in my amp1 for panasonic fr one's. To my ears the improvements are big, now it has actual real depth and sparkle.

Are you going to second-guess Whitigir too? The one thing you can't do is second-guess no one.

 

[abitdeef]

If Sony does it so well then why you not using a Sony ? I had the top three Sony daps and all were ok but not great.

Lol I said they were they only one I knew who used the big radial Pansonic caps. If you like a more organic musical sound Sony has their own kind of flavour. I prefer a more dynamic neutralish sound sig. Plus Sony amps don't have the output others have.

I was just saying I haven't seen those caps used much by dap manufacturers in general. Besides there is so much more than just caps, like clean power, clocking, lpf, etc.

 

[jmills8]

Lol I said they were they only one I knew who used the big radial Pansonic caps. If you like a more organic musical sound Sony has their own kind of flavour. I prefer a more dynamic neutralish sound sig. Plus Sony amps don't have the output others have.

I was just saying I haven't seen those caps used much by dap manufacturers in general. Besides there is so much more than just caps, like clean power, clocking, lpf, etc.

Bingo.

 

[rutter]

Ok, jmills8 is trying pretty hard to derail the point, but it's too simple for these weak attempts. If these caps are better and are cheap they should be in the iBasso amps. It is a laughable and embarrassing fallacy to expand the focus away from the caps to the entire daps. The daps as a whole are simply irrelevant unless these caps aren't a good idea inside iBasso amps for whatever reason. We have one person who has put them into an iBasso amp claiming they make a significant positive difference, one of disproportionate value at 3-4 euros.

Plus Sony amps don't have the output others have.

This was the big thing for me. I came to the impression that the ironically Sony IER-Z1R needs a good deal more power than Sony's daps provide. I'll try to elicit more impressions.

 

[abitdeef]

Are you going to second-guess Whitigir too? The one thing you can't do is second-guess no one.

What? That makes no sense. I was simply stating that the reason those particular caps were used probably wasn't to save money. I'm sure their engineers had a reason for using them. I personally haven't heard the modded one or the stock one. So far it seems the reception of the stock amp is pretty good.

And it's all pretty pointless when you discuss sound quality because it's subjective, we all hear things differently. The nice thing is if you aren't happy with a product like you, you can always return it or sell it.

I was just commenting on capacitors lol

 

[rutter]

Another person has heard them modded in and claims they sound significantly better. Whitigir has extensively modded amp8 and claims his mods sound significantly better. This is exactly what I asked @Paul - iBasso initially. What is iBasso's reason for not reflecting the seemingly cost-effective benefit of these mods in what they sell? The only thing that's pointless is trying to appeal to subjectivity. We clearly disagree on what makes sense.

 

[Paul - iBasso]

The components (capacitors, resistors, op amps etc.) that we use in the AMPs are used not because of price but because of the sound that we get. Something may sound different or more to your liking with a different capacitor or op amp because of the predominate IEMs or headphones being used but we need to make AMPs that sound and work well with many different drivers. There are times we have tried some of the components that have been used for modifications and there are times that for general use they don't work out. We spend hundreds and hundreds of hours in design and listening. It is no easy task. Also, if there was not a good design to the AMP, changing a few components would not make much of a difference. That some can change capacitors or other components shows how good the design is to begin with because they are able to tune it to their liking.

For MQA, we have a license for this and are charged on every dap that has it. It has been authenticated by MQA as working and doing what it is supposed to do.

 

[abitdeef]

Ok, jmills8 is trying pretty hard to derail the point, but it's too simple for these weak attempts. If these caps are better and are cheap they should be in the iBasso amps. It is a laughable and embarrassing fallacy to expand the focus away from the caps to the entire daps. The daps as a whole are simply irrelevant unless these caps aren't a good idea inside iBasso amps for whatever reason. We have one person who has put them into an iBasso amp claiming they make a significant positive difference, one of disproportionate value at 3-4 euros.



This was the big thing for me. I came to the impression that the ironically Sony IER-Z1R needs a good deal more power than Sony's daps provide. I'll try to elicit more impressions.

Ok, but what if like say you got the mod done and you didn't like the sound like the person who originally modded the amp? It's entirely possible. Not saying it doesn't sound different, but until I or you actually hear it, we don't know.

Or maybe my hearing isn't adequate to pick up the differences because they are more minor than first thought. Now if we have a large consensus of people raving about the mod, well then we might have something and could assume they're were definite changes of some kind.

No offence to the modder, he's happy and notices a difference- that's all that matters.

 

[seanwee]

In any case, wouldn't you all agree that this be a good opportunity for ibasso to make a limited run, special edition upgraded amp module?

And depending on the demand maybe even replace the existing ones?

 

[twister6]

@rutter do you think manufacturers just pick whatever they find on the shelf and "glue" it together? They go through tedious R&D process to pick'n'choose component to make their product sound to their liking. As an example, iBasso said they tested different DACs, yet decided to keep the same one as in their 2 year old model because to their ears it still sound great; it's their preference. Also, as you said it yourself, these caps are cheap as dirt, so they are not cutting corners to save money. It's just what they picked because they liked the sound.

Now, it just so happen that thanks to a modular design in this case people have easy access to get inside and replace caps. And after switching to different caps, some might hear a bigger change, others might hear a more subtle change, and some might just go with a flow because others hear the difference. Don't think it's fair to grill the manufacturer just because some people replaced components and hear the improvement, which btw is a subjective opinion. And I'm saying this with peace'n'love cause I do support and believe in Vince's efforts and did host his amp mod write-up on my review site, per link you shared above.

 

[abitdeef]

The components (capacitors, resistors, op amps etc.) that we use in the AMPs are used not because of price but because of the sound that we get. Something may sound different or more to your liking with a different capacitor or op amp because of the predominate IEMs or headphones being used but we need to make AMPs that sound and work well with many different drivers. There are times we have tried some of the components that have been used for modifications and there are times that for general use they don't work out. We spend hundreds and hundreds of hours in design and listening. It is no easy task. Also, if there was not a good design to the AMP, changing a few components would not make much of a difference. That some can change capacitors or other components shows how good the design is to begin with because they are able to tune it to their liking.

For MQA, we have a license for this and are charged on every dap that has it. It has been authenticated by MQA as working and doing what it is supposed to do.

This rutter ^

 

[seanwee]

The components (capacitors, resistors, op amps etc.) that we use in the AMPs are used not because of price but because of the sound that we get. Something may sound different or more to your liking with a different capacitor or op amp because of the predominate IEMs or headphones being used but we need to make AMPs that sound and work well with many different drivers. There are times we have tried some of the components that have been used for modifications and there are times that for general use they don't work out. We spend hundreds and hundreds of hours in design and listening. It is no easy task. Also, if there was not a good design to the AMP, changing a few components would not make much of a difference. That some can change capacitors or other components shows how good the design is to begin with because they are able to tune it to their liking.

For MQA, we have a license for this and are charged on every dap that has it. It has been authenticated by MQA as working and doing what it is supposed to do.

Yeah, pretty much in line with the reasons I had in mind. To stay true to the ibasso house sound.