[nosracl]

So, I recently bought some HD650's, and a Burson Audio HA-160DS Headphone amplifier / DAC to accompany them.
 
After a few days of on-and-off listening, I'm feeling a little disappointed. I've been listening through my iTunes Library, trying out all different types of genre, but I'm just not feeling the sound. It feels like it's slightly muffled, particularly in the mid-ranges. The strange thing is: most of my library is Apple Lossless. A few tracks are 256 and 320kbps, and I hoped (and expected) for these tracks to sound inferior. But these 900kbps+ songs are still feeling sluggish and muffled. Even the bass seems a bit distant.
 
The only time I'm feeling pleased is listening to FLAC or WAV files in foobar2000, ripped straight from a CD. Now, I know Apple Lossless files are still lossless, but they don't sound as good. I can't really tell if the WAV files sound any better to me played through iTunes, and obviously FLAC files won't play in iTunes without some fiddling about.
 
Is this purely a problem with iTunes playback? My laptop is a 6-7 year old Sony Vaio thing, but that's why I bought the amp/DAC - to avoid playback from the laptop's poor sound card. Perhaps I'm horrifically mistaken about what this DAC should be doing for me. Incidentally, I've just ordered the brand new MacBook Pro (Retina one released yesterday), so I'd be interested to see what the difference is.
 
Burson do say that the amp/DAC's quality will improve over time as it 'breaks in', and perhaps the HD650's will do the same? I don't know.
 
Any thoughts greatly appreciated. I've spent £887.62 in total on this kit; I don't feel I should be disappointed!

 

[feigeibomber]

I recently bought the Burson Audio HA-160D and i will admit for the first 50 hours before it was 'burnt in' it honestly sounded terrible, i was disappointed and regretted buying the amplifier especially the price i paid, however i gave it some extra time, letting them run for couple of hours a day, it slowly started to shine and now they're astounding. 
I reckon you should give them some time to burn in (if you believe such a thing) as well as the headphones themselves as you say they're still new
 

 

[Audio-Omega]

What didn't you like about the sound ?  I didn't notice much change in the sound of my HD650 over time.  

 

[nosracl]

The sound seems muffled. It's as if there's a layer of something over the sound which blocks clarity. It's worse in the mid-ranges, the bass is better and the highs are quite normal. The mid-ranges, in a sense, seem cluttered together - morphing into one, unclear sound. What do you think? 
 
I might wait to 'break in' the amp more, or return these and buy some Beyerdynamic T1's. They are said to have incredible mid-ranges.

 

[Audio-Omega]

May be you should give them some more time to break in.  What did you compare HD650 to ?  HD800 ?  That would explain the lack of clarity.  I had similar issue when switching back to HD600 and HD650 from HD800.  

 

[MattTCG]

I don't want to give you any false hope. But here is a store to share with you. A few months ago, after completely re-ripping my entire itunes library to ALAC, previously was 320 mp3, the music sounded awful. I find that the high quality mp3 rips sound better than apple lossless. 
 
Don't throw cabbages at me. Just my opinion.  

 

[IEMCrazy]

Quote:

The sound seems muffled. It's as if there's a layer of something over the sound which blocks clarity. It's worse in the mid-ranges, the bass is better and the highs are quite normal. The mid-ranges, in a sense, seem cluttered together - morphing into one, unclear sound. What do you think? 
 
I might wait to 'break in' the amp more, or return these and buy some Beyerdynamic T1's. They are said to have incredible mid-ranges.

 
Some people go on about "the Sennheiser vieil" but what you describe sounds like a hardware problem, or a music file problem, or a DAC problem.  Or something. It describes my HD650 experience with the Headroom Micro maybe...but the Burson should be beyond that. I don't think break in should have that significant effect on HD650.  Are you sure your DAC isn't abusing the sound?  But of all things HD650 the mids should positively not sound muffled, the mids are the focus of the entire headphone.  Some folks complain about a lack of treble sparkle/detail or a lack of dynamics, or a lack of sub-bass...okay...but muffled mids?  No.  Something else is wrong.
 
Are you using the Apple equivalent of ASIO drivers for the DAC and have your music player configured appropriately?  Are you using Foobar or the like for playback and are certain that you're not using any DSPs or doing anything that could alter the sound etc.?  The age of the machine should have no effect.  But something is seriously off.  Does your Burson have S/PDIF output that you can hook to a CD player or something to test and eliminate the PC?  Or do you have a CD Player and decent AV Receiver just for testing purposes?

 

[jerg]

Perhaps OP is just very treble-insensitive, so the relatively quick treble roll-off of the Senns struck him strongly.

 

[TMRaven]

Bitrate won't matter if the original recording is poo.  What songs are you listening to?

 

[peteham]

To me, you're describing why I'm not big on the HD 650s.  I have the Burson as well, and experienced no appreciable change through 'burn in', but didn't feel they helped my HD 650s in the slightest.  I do notice that the Burson needs about a half hour to warm up, but that's a different story. Personally, I would try a different set of headphones, which is cold comfort, I know.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

@nosraci,
 
If you can tell that big a difference between ALAC on iTunes and FLAC on another player, it sounds like it might be a software issue. Any reason why you'd want to keep using iTunes, aside from the new Mac? You might want to check this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/449551/foobar-for-mac
 

 

[IEMCrazy]

Quote:

To me, you're describing why I'm not big on the HD 650s.  I have the Burson as well, and experienced no appreciable change through 'burn in', but didn't feel they helped my HD 650s in the slightest.  I do notice that the Burson needs about a half hour to warm up, but that's a different story. Personally, I would try a different set of headphones, which is cold comfort, I know.

 
There are certainly valid reasons why the HD650 sound signature may not cater to all tastes, but mids are not really among them.  Lack of sub-bass, midbass hump, rolled off treble producing what some perceive as a lack of detail (which is actually just perception, it's quite detailed), and a "veiled" sound that is usually the product of bad amp synergy which usually translates to an impedance mismatch or occasionally lack of voltage swing.  Said impedance mismatch can lead to congested mids.   It's very possible the Burson simply is a bad impedance match for the HD650, just as the (old version, can't comment on new) Headroom Micro was to my ears a very bad impedance match for HD650.  I thought HD650 was congested until I tried them on an E11 and found out they were not.  From there I bought a Lyr.  But I honestly preferred the little E11 to the Headroom Micro for that headphone.   A $40 amp vs. a $350 amp, and the $40 amp was a better match.  Go figure.
 
Keep in mind that was the old model Micro.  I don't know what if any changes were made in the new ones.  tdockweiler a prominent Head-Fi'er really likes his (new model) Micro, including with HD650, but overall isn't an HD650 fan in general. 
 
Dumping HD650 in favor of T1 would buy a very different sound signature entirely, since Beyer favors a brighter sound.  Another same-priced alternative, actually cheaper, would be to sell the HD650 and get a HiFiMan HE-400 if you decide the HD650 sound isn't for you but you still like a darker headphone.  Or HE-500 for a price between.  Personally I'm still a huge HD650 fan given the right setup.  But it does have to be the right setup.  And since two of you have the same amp and have the same experience, it's worth considering.

 

[nosracl]

Thanks for all of the posts in reply.
 
I'd like to clarify that the problem I have with mid-range sounds probably isn't as bad as you guys think. It's more that I jumped from a £20 set of Sony headphones to these, and I was expecting to be blown away. I've tried/used high quality headphones before, mind.
 
@IEMCrazy
A Sennheiser 'veil' sounds quite pertinent - it feels like the sound is very slightly distanced, particularly in the mid-range. I suppose it is somewhat arrogant to suggest this, but I do think I have sensitive hearing. I'm often told I can hear quiet sounds that many others can't - I am 18 though, which may have something to do with it. My point being, I'm probably listening very critically, trying to really examine the character of the sound. Perhaps I need to find some cans which really have an 'immediate' feel to them, as it were. As in, the sound seems at the very forefront. I see people on the forums time and time again talking about the 'laid-back' sound of the HD650's - perhaps that's what I'm noticing, and mistaking it for a lack of clarity. I'm quite new to this Audiophile stuff.
 
@ProtegeManiac
iTunes is preferable because of the new Mac coming, yes - but also because I'll need to use it for my iPhone and iPod. That, and... I'll admit it, I use iTunes because it's pretty. A bad excuse, I know. I am wondering whether I should be using the Enhancer or Equaliser in iTunes? I suppose that's a personal taste dilemma. 
 
I'm very fortunate in that I've been able to order the T1's regardless. I think it would be useful to compare the two with the same amp, at the same sitting, and see how I feel. I'll post back my findings when they arrive, in case anyone is interested.
 
Many thanks for all those who posted, sorry I didn't reply to each individual. I'm keeping it all in mind.

 

[jerg]

Quote:

Thanks for all of the posts in reply.
 
I'd like to clarify that the problem I have with mid-range sounds probably isn't as bad as you guys think. It's more that I jumped from a £20 set of Sony headphones to these, and I was expecting to be blown away. I've tried/used high quality headphones before, mind.
 
@IEMCrazy
A Sennheiser 'veil' sounds quite pertinent - it feels like the sound is very slightly distanced, particularly in the mid-range. I suppose it is somewhat arrogant to suggest this, but I do think I have sensitive hearing. I'm often told I can hear quiet sounds that many others can't - I am 18 though, which may have something to do with it. My point being, I'm probably listening very critically, trying to really examine the character of the sound. Perhaps I need to find some cans which really have an 'immediate' feel to them, as it were. As in, the sound seems at the very forefront. I see people on the forums time and time again talking about the 'laid-back' sound of the HD650's - perhaps that's what I'm noticing, and mistaking it for a lack of clarity. I'm quite new to this Audiophile stuff.
 
@ProtegeManiac
iTunes is preferable because of the new Mac coming, yes - but also because I'll need to use it for my iPhone and iPod. That, and... I'll admit it, I use iTunes because it's pretty. A bad excuse, I know. I am wondering whether I should be using the Enhancer or Equaliser in iTunes? I suppose that's a personal taste dilemma. 
 
I'm very fortunate in that I've been able to order the T1's regardless. I think it would be useful to compare the two with the same amp, at the same sitting, and see how I feel. I'll post back my findings when they arrive, in case anyone is interested.
 
Many thanks for all those who posted, sorry I didn't reply to each individual. I'm keeping it all in mind.

 
You'll probably enjoy cans with a more "fun" sound signature then. IMO HD650s fit the tastes of people 30 years or older (physical or mental age lol) who value timbre more than anything else in the world. If you are still trying to spend in the mid-fi ballpark ($300~500), go for Hifiman HE-400 or a used Denon D5000. They have much more 'wow' factor, and are no slouch in other sound aspects either.

 

[nosracl]

Quote:

 
You'll probably enjoy cans with a more "fun" sound signature then. IMO HD650s fit the tastes of people 30 years or older (physical or mental age lol) who value timbre more than anything else in the world. If you are still trying to spend in the mid-fi ballpark ($300~500), go for Hifiman HE-400 or a used Denon D5000. They have much more 'wow' factor, and are no slouch in other sound aspects either.

 
It's possible. When you say 'mental age', meaning more mature musical tastes? I'm pretty keen on everything really. I did try the HD650's with some Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninov, etc. I get what you mean though.
 
I'll bear it in mind, thanks for your help.