[TwoEars]

Hi guys,
 
new on the forum here and very impressed with the amount of knowledge you guys seem to have!
 
My "Head-Fi career" has been a long time coming but my interest has been steadily growing, it started with dedicated computer sound cards, then Sennheiser HD570 followed by a pair of HD590 once the 570:s were worn out.
 
My latest purchase was a second hand Nuforce Icon HDP which I'm now using to play Flac files, very happy with this little marvel! Quite the improvement over my high-end soundcard.
 
Now the real question: I've had these HD590 for about 6 years now and while I like them (most comfortable headphones I've ever tried) they're simply starting to fall apart.
 
I'd like to upgrade to something a bit more "High-End" while I'm at it and would like something that:
 
1. Is comfortable to wear (use them all the time at the computer for music, games etc.)
2. Goes well with the Icon HDP
3. If possible is a closed design since I'm tired of background noises (I can compromise on this).
4. Goes well with bass heavy music like Depeche Mode, Massive attack, VNV nation etc. But also rock like Dire Straits, Pearl Jam etc.
5. I love the roominess of electrostats (love the martin logan speakers) but I don't want to trade away the bass for that.
 
So basically comfortable, closed, handles bass & rock but is still airy... tall order... I know....
 
So what would you recommend? The D7000 seems very interesting and the Ultrasone Pro900 (recommended below by Katun) also seems very interesting. Price is not that big of a concern - I'm willing to "pay more to get more" if that makes any sense.
 
Has anyone had the luxury of sampling the D7000 vs the Pro900?
 
Many thanks!

 

[Katun]

My D2000s were amazing for Depeche Mode, but my Pro 900s were even more amazing.
 
If $320 is in your budget, I seriously don't think you'll find a better headphone for DM than the Pro 900.

 

[desktophifi]

Quote:

My D2000s were amazing for Depeche Mode,

I love how the D2000's sounds with it. I had the chance to listen to "It's no good" and i was stunned. 

 

[DjAmTraX]

Sony MDR-XB1000 or Denon D7000, but very different sound.

 

[TwoEars]

 
Quote:

My D2000s were amazing for Depeche Mode, but my Pro 900s were even more amazing.
 
If $320 is in your budget, I seriously don't think you'll find a better headphone for DM than the Pro 900.

I did actually listen to the D2000 in a shop but I wasn't a big fan, the bass was great but the mids were far too recessed for my taste. It felt like a veil over the music.
 
Have you had any chance to listen to the D7000:s? Apperently they're suppose to have superior mids and highs to the D2000.
 
Reading you Pro900 review I think your music taste is pretty much exactly like mine, but I also like clarity, roominess and and a "relaxing sound" for movies etc. So I'm wondering if maybe the D7000 isn't the better choice....only of course it double the price pretty much. Any input would be appriciated...
 
BTW - between the D2000/5000/7000 and the 900Pro which would you say is the most comfortable for long listening session?

 

[misformatt]

I was pm'd a while back with a request to compare my D7000 and PRO 900, so I'll just copy and paste my impressions from that conversation:
 
"I sold my PRO 900 a little while back, but I'll do my best to compare them from memory.  First off, I too love bass.  The bass on the PRO 900 was easily the strongest I've felt/heard in a set of cans.  That said, I did find the bass a bit boomy and untextured--especially when compared to the razor-sharp presentation of the treble.  With the D7000, you lose a lot of the bass slam that the PRO 900 seemed to have with nearly every track; however, the D7000 still extends as deep and with more weight than any other can I've tried (with the exception of the PRO 900, of course).  The Denon also has superior bass texture and tonal separation.  The PRO 900's low end often seemed to creep into the mids and overpower them, whereas the D7000's bass exists much more independently--giving it a more natural, balanced presence. 
 
The D7000 is a much more balanced can overall.  Its lower mids are very nice, with its upper mids being very slightly recessed.  Its mid-range performance really clobbers the PRO 900's, whose weakest attribute were the very recessed mids.  I also found the sibilance present on many vocals to be untenable with the PRO 900--painful even, at times.  The D7000 has nice, present highs that blend nicely with the whole aural presentation.  I actually sold my HD 650 recently because I was so impressed with the D7000.  The Denon seemed like a tweaked HD 650, with much, much better highs and low end clarity, with the only concession being the slightly reduced transparency (due to the closed design). 
 
As far as soundstage is concerned, it's a bit tougher to compare the two by memory.  I was very impressed with the precision of the PRO 900's imaging.  I think the intense crispness of the highs helped place instruments (or enemies, if you're an fps gamer) into very localized, easy to identify locations.  The D7000 doesn't have the same pin-point precision in its soundstage, but I do feel it's a bit wider and more natural (though with less air and transparency than the PRO 900--when it's not being overpowered by mid-bass). 
 
I also find the Denons to be much more comfortable.  For some reason, the Ultrasone's velour rubbed by ears slightly wrong.  It felt very soft to the touch, but irritated my ears slightly.  I also have a pretty big dome, so I always found the clamping pressure of the PRO 900 to be a bit on the snug side.  The Denon's pleather pads are very comfortable, but did make my ears sweat a bit more, so I swapped them out with the J Money pads earlier this week, which makes a definite improvement in heat-related comfort. 
 
In conclusion, I find the D7000 to be a substantial upgrade in pretty much every regard.  If I were a one can kind of guy, it would definitely be my all-rounder.  The bass is much more subwoofer like in its presentation, which makes it more natural and less fatiguing than other bass heavy cans I've tried.  The solid mids and crisp, non-fatiguing treble make it a solid can for just about any genre of music (with the bass making it a lot of fun for movies and games).  Classical music is not ideal, due to the closed design and restricted transparency, but it could do in a pinch."

 

[Dougeefresh]

I was the PMer that misformatt mentioned above. I currently have both in my possession and burning in D7000 (at about 40hrs., PRO900 at 200+ hrs.) To be honest I wasn't blown away by D7000 in the beginning but I am liking it more as I listen more. I am planning to do a more in-depth comparison over the weekend if time allows.

 

[Katun]

Quote:

I did actually listen to the D2000 in a shop but I wasn't a big fan, the bass was great but the mids were far too recessed for my taste. It felt like a veil over the music.
 
Have you had any chance to listen to the D7000:s? Apperently they're suppose to have superior mids and highs to the D2000.
 
Reading you Pro900 review I think your music taste is pretty much exactly like mine, but I also like clarity, roominess and and a "relaxing sound" for movies etc. So I'm wondering if maybe the D7000 isn't the better choice....only of course it double the price pretty much. Any input would be appriciated...
 
BTW - between the D2000/5000/7000 and the 900Pro which would you say is the most comfortable for long listening session?

 
The D2000 has MUCH better initial comfort than the Pro 900. In fact, it's one of the comfiest headphones I've ever worn. The Pro 900 isn't bad at all, just not one of the best. After about 45 minutes to an hour, bot of them start to irritate me at the top of the headband and I have to adjust or take a break to continue wearing either.
 
Between the D7000 and the Pro 900, I would assume with my experience with the D2000, that the D7000 would be superior sonically. But by what margin, I don't know. I'm sure the Pro 900 can hold it's own quite well against the D7000 in sound, and especially since it's a third the price! Plus you get much better build quality, smaller form, and detachable cable. Not to mention superior noise isolation and less leakage. Type in "Pro 900 vs D7000" in the search bar, and there is a great review done by a Head-Fi'er that really does a good job explaining sonic and physical characteristics of the two. Er, what am I saying, here it is for you: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/471945/review-denon-ah-d7000-vs-ultrasone-pro-900

 

[shane55]

I never owned the Pro 900.
I can assure you, however that there is a substantial difference as you go up the ladder from D2000 - D5k - D7k.
Much has been written about the D7000. It's an amazing headphone. I'm not saying it's the 'best' for Depeche Mode, nor might it even be the one for you, but for many of us... it's outstanding. It's all opinion and taste
 
Good luck.

 

[Nachkebia]

Try pro 900 with J$ pads. Because everything you mentioned is what these pads fixed on Pro 900. You can read my comments in pro 900 thread.
 
I only had D5000 and when I compare pro 900 with j$ pads, they sound more detailed denons with no denon warmth to them. Also, if the isolation is thing to consider, pro 900 isolate far better.
 
Quote:

I was pm'd a while back with a request to compare my D7000 and PRO 900, so I'll just copy and paste my impressions from that conversation:
 
"I sold my PRO 900 a little while back, but I'll do my best to compare them from memory.  First off, I too love bass.  The bass on the PRO 900 was easily the strongest I've felt/heard in a set of cans.  That said, I did find the bass a bit boomy and untextured--especially when compared to the razor-sharp presentation of the treble.  With the D7000, you lose a lot of the bass slam that the PRO 900 seemed to have with nearly every track; however, the D7000 still extends as deep and with more weight than any other can I've tried (with the exception of the PRO 900, of course).  The Denon also has superior bass texture and tonal separation.  The PRO 900's low end often seemed to creep into the mids and overpower them, whereas the D7000's bass exists much more independently--giving it a more natural, balanced presence. 
 
The D7000 is a much more balanced can overall.  Its lower mids are very nice, with its upper mids being very slightly recessed.  Its mid-range performance really clobbers the PRO 900's, whose weakest attribute were the very recessed mids.  I also found the sibilance present on many vocals to be untenable with the PRO 900--painful even, at times.  The D7000 has nice, present highs that blend nicely with the whole aural presentation.  I actually sold my HD 650 recently because I was so impressed with the D7000.  The Denon seemed like a tweaked HD 650, with much, much better highs and low end clarity, with the only concession being the slightly reduced transparency (due to the closed design). 
 
As far as soundstage is concerned, it's a bit tougher to compare the two by memory.  I was very impressed with the precision of the PRO 900's imaging.  I think the intense crispness of the highs helped place instruments (or enemies, if you're an fps gamer) into very localized, easy to identify locations.  The D7000 doesn't have the same pin-point precision in its soundstage, but I do feel it's a bit wider and more natural (though with less air and transparency than the PRO 900--when it's not being overpowered by mid-bass). 
 
I also find the Denons to be much more comfortable.  For some reason, the Ultrasone's velour rubbed by ears slightly wrong.  It felt very soft to the touch, but irritated my ears slightly.  I also have a pretty big dome, so I always found the clamping pressure of the PRO 900 to be a bit on the snug side.  The Denon's pleather pads are very comfortable, but did make my ears sweat a bit more, so I swapped them out with the J Money pads earlier this week, which makes a definite improvement in heat-related comfort. 
 
In conclusion, I find the D7000 to be a substantial upgrade in pretty much every regard.  If I were a one can kind of guy, it would definitely be my all-rounder.  The bass is much more subwoofer like in its presentation, which makes it more natural and less fatiguing than other bass heavy cans I've tried.  The solid mids and crisp, non-fatiguing treble make it a solid can for just about any genre of music (with the bass making it a lot of fun for movies and games).  Classical music is not ideal, due to the closed design and restricted transparency, but it could do in a pinch."

 

 

[TwoEars]

Some great stuff here, thanks a lot misformatt!
 
 
Quote:

 
The D2000 has MUCH better initial comfort than the Pro 900. In fact, it's one of the comfiest headphones I've ever worn. The Pro 900 isn't bad at all, just not one of the best. After about 45 minutes to an hour, bot of them start to irritate me at the top of the headband and I have to adjust or take a break to continue wearing either.
 
Between the D7000 and the Pro 900, I would assume with my experience with the D2000, that the D7000 would be superior sonically. But by what margin, I don't know. I'm sure the Pro 900 can hold it's own quite well against the D7000 in sound, and especially since it's a third the price! Plus you get much better build quality, smaller form, and detachable cable. Not to mention superior noise isolation and less leakage. Type in "Pro 900 vs D7000" in the search bar, and there is a great review done by a Head-Fi'er that really does a good job explaining sonic and physical characteristics of the two. Er, what am I saying, here it is for you: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/471945/review-denon-ah-d7000-vs-ultrasone-pro-900

 
And here and exempt from the review in that link (by Stickyfoot): 
 
"There’s no question about the superiority of the mids on the D7Ks, though. Vocals, both male and female, come through smoother, clearer and just more natural sounding. This is where the cost and refinement of the Denons begins to manifest itself. The highs and soundstage are equally impressive. You really have to hand it to the Denon engineers for making a closed phone with no glaring weaknesses—a real rarity. Definitely the more well-rounded of the two, the Denon comes across as the grown-up’s headphone while the Ultrasone is a bit more immature and punchy. I would label both phones as “fun”, though.
Conclusion
There’s no doubt that the D7K wins the award for the prettiest, most refined, most comfortable and most expensive can in this comparison. The 900 acquitted itself nicely, however, when it comes to bass quantity and impact, and is no slouch with regards to soundstage and treble either. Since neither of these cans will really appeal to someone looking for something with uncolored bass response, it really comes down to what your budget dictates and what kind of bass you are looking for.
If money is no object, the Denon is your clear choice. By sacrificing a bit of bass effulgence (which you may not want anyway), you will be getting a headphone that feels and sounds like a thousand-dollar can should."
 
 
This is no easy choice...  especially when you guys start talking about modding the Pro900.... but if I can get the Denon for $700 or less I'm starting to think that this might be the way to go. Two guys with back-to-back experience of the 900Pro and D7000 ended up favoring the D7000 in the end, and they highlight all the things I'm looking for: clarity, forgiving, better mids, comfort etc along with the great bass extension. I'm looking for an allrounder that has the ability to play fantastic bass but I'm not sure I want a can where the bass can be a bit dominating like some say it is in the Pro900. I think my mind is set on the D7000 right now... 

 
Thanks a lot for that link Katun!
 
 
Quote:

I was the PMer that misformatt mentioned above. I currently have both in my possession and burning in D7000 (at about 40hrs., PRO900 at 200+ hrs.) To be honest I wasn't blown away by D7000 in the beginning but I am liking it more as I listen more. I am planning to do a more in-depth comparison over the weekend if time allows.

I'm very eagerly awaiting your comparison

 
 

 

[shamrock134]

I agree the D7000 probably fits the all-rounder role better than the Pro900.
 
The Pro900 excels with electronic music though, IMO.

 

[Dougeefresh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwoEars /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
This is no easy choice...  especially when you guys start talking about modding the Pro900.... but if I can get the Denon for $700 or less I'm starting to think that this might be the way to go. Two guys with back-to-back experience of the 900Pro and D7000 ended up favoring the D7000 in the end, and they highlight all the things I'm looking for: clarity, forgiving, better mids, comfort etc along with the great bass extension. I'm looking for an allrounder that has the ability to play fantastic bass but I'm not sure I want a can where the bass can be

After listening to D7000 for 3 days straight, the words you used to described above are what D7000 does better than PRO900 (clarity can be debated as PRO900 does quite well in certain freq. ranges). Definitely as an all-arounder, D7000 takes the cake. I knew PRO900 was a "fun" and "colored" pair but didn't realize how much until I heard D7000. Two things that are keeping me from jumping ship to D7000 are stronger bass and sound isolation (I love good, strong bass). Since you didn't include super bass or sound leakage in your requirements, it looks like a pretty easy decision. I have not made my decision on which ones I prefer as my requirements are biased towards certain features, and I foresee that it will be a tough one

 

 

[shamrock134]

Keep them both and ditch the M50, HFI580 and DT770!

 

[Dougeefresh]

Quote:

Keep them both and ditch the M50, HFI580 and DT770!

They've been long gone

although I wish I would've kept HFI-580. Ultrasones have something special that I just can't shake off.