Denon AH-D9200 - 2018 Flagship - Impressions Thread
Jun 5, 2021 at 4:34 PM Post #2,551 of 4,391
IME the D9200 will scale with better amps, not necessarily because they would be harder to drive, but because they have the headroom. They can adopt the character of the upstream almost like a good e-stat. The D9200 really thrives on smooth, natural, dynamic upstream. Both good tube and SS amps work fine IME. I also suggest changing the stock cable too, IME good copper cables have better synergy with the D9200 (or very good pure silver ones, but I still prefer copper). But the nice thing is that one can connect them even to a good smooth DAP and they will play beautifully.
Hi @zolkis

If you would have to share a single cable between a D9200 and a Focal Clear MG, which one would you pick? I have the Forza Audioworks Noir HPC Mk2, but am contemplating the Forza Audioworks Noir HPC Hybrid... (or any other recommendation?)
 
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Jun 7, 2021 at 4:08 AM Post #2,553 of 4,391
These look good.

I was going to say that I prefer a soft copper Litz structure with thicker strands (like 0.3 mm instead of 0.1-0.15), cloth+resin (or your secret sauce) dielectric and then pyjamas of your liking (preferably cloth), and preferably balanced connector. Nothing fancy or expensive there, just good choice of copper cable tech, insulation materials, structure (twisted vs woven) and terminations, in the order of significance.

However, I haven't yet found headphone cables that would be the equivalent of good interconnects and speaker cables on sound quality. The requirement on flexibility (i.e. ending up using too thin strands) works against that.

I ended up making my own cables as a temporary solution (far better sounding than stock cables but also far more impractical). These LQi cables are probably better, though I can't tell what insulation they are using (the dielectric material - and cable manufacturing tech - matters for the uniformity of the EM field, an important characteristic that is mostly lost with the statistical/bulk measures like cable resistance, inductance, capacitance, though those are usable macro-indications, too).

But instead of checking on mambo-jumbo cable tech, one can tell good cables by their sound (if they make a difference at all, and the effect will be different in various system combinations). IME good cables (and other components) usually give the impression to play everything more calm, as if with deeper voice, more relaxed, smooth, free flowing, "effortless" if you wish, as opposed to flat, or "clear", or "resolved" (which often are just hard). Most cables either sound boring/smeared flat or then hard. The stock Denon cables are mostly boring flat (the D7200 cables are moving towards the good direction, though) or boring flat + moving towards hard (D9200). The drivers can do better than that. BTW, before someone makes the point: of course voice coil cables, layout etc matter far more than the connecting cables, but that's driver tech, and has to integrate with magnetic design, driver loading etc. Yet we hear differences even between connecting cables - go figure. We are not talking divers here, just connecting cables...

To finish this rant (I rarely check in here in nowadays, so bear with me), headphones and earphones will always be compromises, for acoustic reasons. It's far easier to achieve supreme listening experience with good speakers and fix the listening rooms. However, it's far easier and cheaper to achieve good enough (though confined) listening experience with headphones. BTW do you remember which are the world's biggest headphones? (tip: Dunlavy SC-VI speakers). :)

There is also a side effect of too much headphone listening that it alters the way we hear/listen... as the brain is optimizing (or adapting to suffering). So it's important to keep it a minimal experience in short sessions, go to concerts (when allowed again), listen to speakers, or even play music on acoustic instruments. So take care to maintain your ears and hearing and critical listening ability. That might help getting priorities right for headphone cables as well :).

(EOP - end of preaching) :)
 
Jun 7, 2021 at 4:34 AM Post #2,555 of 4,391
Jun 7, 2021 at 6:05 AM Post #2,557 of 4,391
These look good.

I was going to say that I prefer a soft copper Litz structure with thicker strands (like 0.3 mm instead of 0.1-0.15), cloth+resin (or your secret sauce) dielectric and then pyjamas of your liking (preferably cloth), and preferably balanced connector. Nothing fancy or expensive there, just good choice of copper cable tech, insulation materials, structure (twisted vs woven) and terminations, in the order of significance.

However, I haven't yet found headphone cables that would be the equivalent of good interconnects and speaker cables on sound quality. The requirement on flexibility (i.e. ending up using too thin strands) works against that.

I ended up making my own cables as a temporary solution (far better sounding than stock cables but also far more impractical). These LQi cables are probably better, though I can't tell what insulation they are using (the dielectric material - and cable manufacturing tech - matters for the uniformity of the EM field, an important characteristic that is mostly lost with the statistical/bulk measures like cable resistance, inductance, capacitance, though those are usable macro-indications, too).

But instead of checking on mambo-jumbo cable tech, one can tell good cables by their sound (if they make a difference at all, and the effect will be different in various system combinations). IME good cables (and other components) usually give the impression to play everything more calm, as if with deeper voice, more relaxed, smooth, free flowing, "effortless" if you wish, as opposed to flat, or "clear", or "resolved" (which often are just hard). Most cables either sound boring/smeared flat or then hard. The stock Denon cables are mostly boring flat (the D7200 cables are moving towards the good direction, though) or boring flat + moving towards hard (D9200). The drivers can do better than that. BTW, before someone makes the point: of course voice coil cables, layout etc matter far more than the connecting cables, but that's driver tech, and has to integrate with magnetic design, driver loading etc. Yet we hear differences even between connecting cables - go figure. We are not talking divers here, just connecting cables...

To finish this rant (I rarely check in here in nowadays, so bear with me), headphones and earphones will always be compromises, for acoustic reasons. It's far easier to achieve supreme listening experience with good speakers and fix the listening rooms. However, it's far easier and cheaper to achieve good enough (though confined) listening experience with headphones. BTW do you remember which are the world's biggest headphones? (tip: Dunlavy SC-VI speakers). :)

There is also a side effect of too much headphone listening that it alters the way we hear/listen... as the brain is optimizing (or adapting to suffering). So it's important to keep it a minimal experience in short sessions, go to concerts (when allowed again), listen to speakers, or even play music on acoustic instruments. So take care to maintain your ears and hearing and critical listening ability. That might help getting priorities right for headphone cables as well :).

(EOP - end of preaching) :)
LOL.. Really enjoyed reading that.. A great example of completely acceptable and even enjoyable preaching ...

Since we started building our fishbowl apartment (which real estate agents call Urban Villas nowadays 😂) I no longer have walls to support the magnificent reflections that come with classic two-channel high-end setups.

Instead I am now confined to my den and my Head-Amp there, with my headphones only being allowed into the living room as part of the interior design hanging on the side of one of the pillars... Strategically positioned there by our architect, and reduced to the status of design prop 🤣😎
 
Jun 9, 2021 at 8:07 AM Post #2,558 of 4,391
LOL.. Really enjoyed reading that.. A great example of completely acceptable and even enjoyable preaching ...

Since we started building our fishbowl apartment (which real estate agents call Urban Villas nowadays 😂) I no longer have walls to support the magnificent reflections that come with classic two-channel high-end setups.

Instead I am now confined to my den and my Head-Amp there, with my headphones only being allowed into the living room as part of the interior design hanging on the side of one of the pillars... Strategically positioned there by our architect, and reduced to the status of design prop 🤣😎
Apologies if you've already said this somewhere but... How do you feel the Denon's compare to the Focal Clear MG and LCD X 2021? I've had the Clear before. Got rid of it as I didn't like the small soundstage and harsh highs. My denon is coming this month.

Thanks!
 
Jun 19, 2021 at 10:43 AM Post #2,559 of 4,391
The Arctic Cable Magnus pairs so well with the D9200...recommended

20210619_095218.jpg
 
Jun 19, 2021 at 9:56 PM Post #2,560 of 4,391
Hi guys
Have been off this thread for a while but as I remember some here had decent desktop setups I wanted to ask what you think about placing DAC and amp separately from each other and using longer XLR interconnect cables.
My issue is that I underestimated the size of my new DAC and want to put it therefore into my TV rack, get an additional bluesound node 2i as streamer so I don't have to fiddle with long USB cables and put the headphone amp near to my listening position.
As the premium headphone cables are kind of short there's no way sitting comfortably near my TV rack.

Do you guys think that longer XLR DAC-AMP interconnect cables (like 4m) will degrade the signal noticibly?
 
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Jun 19, 2021 at 10:12 PM Post #2,561 of 4,391
Hi guys
Have been off this thread for a while but as I remember some here had decent desktop setups I wanted to ask what you think about placing DAC and amp separately from each other and using longer XLR interconnect cables.
My issue is that I underestimated the size of my new DAC and want to put it therefore into my TV rack, get an additional bluesound node 2i as streamer so I don't have to fiddle with long USB cables and put the headphone amp near to my listening position.
As the premium headphone cables are kind of short there's no way sitting comfortably near my TV rack.

Do you guys think that longer XLR DAC-AMP interconnect cables (like 4m) will degrade the signal noticibly?
only if your traveling like 100+ feet, and even then just get a lower AWG, (thicker copper)
 
Jun 20, 2021 at 4:48 AM Post #2,562 of 4,391
Hi guys
Have been off this thread for a while but as I remember some here had decent desktop setups I wanted to ask what you think about placing DAC and amp separately from each other and using longer XLR interconnect cables.
My issue is that I underestimated the size of my new DAC and want to put it therefore into my TV rack, get an additional bluesound node 2i as streamer so I don't have to fiddle with long USB cables and put the headphone amp near to my listening position.
As the premium headphone cables are kind of short there's no way sitting comfortably near my TV rack.

Do you guys think that longer XLR DAC-AMP interconnect cables (like 4m) will degrade the signal noticibly?

XLR cables are actually made for long interconnects, so a few meters should not be a Problem as Long as both ends implement this (i.e. no adapters from/to RCA are involved)
 
Jun 20, 2021 at 6:14 PM Post #2,564 of 4,391
Hi guys
Have been off this thread for a while but as I remember some here had decent desktop setups I wanted to ask what you think about placing DAC and amp separately from each other and using longer XLR interconnect cables.
My issue is that I underestimated the size of my new DAC and want to put it therefore into my TV rack, get an additional bluesound node 2i as streamer so I don't have to fiddle with long USB cables and put the headphone amp near to my listening position.
As the premium headphone cables are kind of short there's no way sitting comfortably near my TV rack.

Do you guys think that longer XLR DAC-AMP interconnect cables (like 4m) will degrade the signal noticibly?
When you receive your Pontus II, would you please tell me if you notice an improvement with your 9200s? (if you haven't sold your current AMP - I see you are waiting for an A90-).
 
Jun 20, 2021 at 7:32 PM Post #2,565 of 4,391
When you receive your Pontus II, would you please tell me if you notice an improvement with your 9200s? (if you haven't sold your current AMP - I see you are waiting for an A90-).
Sure
 

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