[zolkis]

Where did you get the modded pads and such for your TH900? How do you feel they affect the sound vs. the stock pads?

I use the Stax 009 pads with the same mods also on the TH900.
Over the years I tried more than 50 pads plus countless of mods with a lot of headphones. That's a lot of money and time.
Fortunately for all others, there was a winner. The modded 009 (and 007) pads work the best with most of them (the only exception being the huge Phenomenon e-stats which are slightly better off with their own pads lately, but only lately). That's a pretty safe optimum I would say. Expensive? Yes. Are they worth it? Definitely, even on durability alone (they will outlast $30-60 pads multiple times).

About tube amps - it is not euphony and warmness that should define them, but in general it is easier to achieve better immediacy, transparency and musicality with tube designs. As cost and design/parts quality goes up, the less the difference. Power supply quality is a big deciding factor for both (and there too, I've heard switching PSU that's better than most LPS and heard similarly good LPS as well, so don't fall for tech alone, they are not the guarantee; the know-how and execution level are).

How does the 7200 cable compare to the shorter copper 9200 cable with the 1/4 adapter?
I would consider trading my silver cable for a 7200 Copper cable or trying to sell it, but I really don't want to part with any of the original contents with this headphone.

The shorter copper D9200 (portable) cable is crap.
The D7200 cable is far better. Try to buy them from your local Denon dealer.

Hope your mod suits the D7200 also.

No, with the D7200 its own modded pads sounded better than the modded 009 pads, since the latter revealed issues with my D7200 (midrange too prominent).

 

[Chris Kaoss]

I use the Stax 009 pads with the same mods also on the TH900.
Over the years I tried more than 50 pads plus countless of mods with a lot of headphones. That's a lot of money and time.
Fortunately for all others, there was a winner. The modded 009 (and 007) pads work the best with most of them (the only exception being the huge Phenomenon e-stats which are slightly better off with their own pads lately, but only lately). That's a pretty safe optimum I would say. Expensive? Yes. Are they worth it? Definitely, even on durability alone (they will outlast $30-60 pads multiple times).

About tube amps - it is not euphony and warmness that should define them, but in general it is easier to achieve better immediacy, transparency and musicality with tube designs. As cost and design/parts quality goes up, the less the difference. Power supply quality is a big deciding factor for both (and there too, I've heard switching PSU that's better than most LPS and heard similarly good LPS as well, so don't fall for tech alone, they are not the guarantee; the know-how and execution level are).



The shorter copper D9200 (portable) cable is crap.
The D7200 cable is far better. Try to buy them from your local Denon dealer.




No, with the D7200 its own modded pads sounded better than the modded 009 pads, since the latter revealed issues with my D7200 (midrange too prominent).

Thank you for your comments and effort to lift the Denons up.

Maybe i'll get the opportunity to enjoy your advices one day.
Great work.

 

[slsmaster]

Hi Guys!

I am thinking about changing the stock silver plated cable to a pure copper one. What do you guys think about the Forza Audioworks Noir HPC MK2, would it be a good match for the headphone? Also is the Stax 009 pad mod hard to do for a "novice"?

 

[WDitters]

Hi Guys!

I am thinking about changing the stock silver plated cable to a pure copper one. What do you guys think about the Forza Audioworks Noir HPC MK2, would it be a good match for the headphone? Also is the Stax 009 pad mod hard to do for a "novice"?

I love that match, I have de Denon connected via the Forza Noir HPC Mk2 to a FiiO M15.. But to be honest.. It pairs so well because M15 is somewhat clean and analytical, and therefore not directly an ideal match with the Denon.. The Forza mellows that down and brings the needed warmth.. YMMV with other DAPS

 

[slsmaster]

Thanks for the input, I am using a Cocktail Audio HA500H. I will definitely try this cable. Does it make sense to replace the stock earpads with stock stax 009 pads (in terms of SQ)? Will it fit or is it necessary to remove the white foam ring?

 

[zolkis]

As a general comment on comparing cables and other devices, too: usually the component which sounds with a lower or deeper tone is the better one (for long term).
Often one component is perceived sounding a bit calmer or deeper or more relaxed, even if the measured FR is the same (but harmonic structure might differ).
Conversely, often a component that sounds a bit more shifted up could be pleasant/more lively/etc in a given system, but when you fix the real issues in the system, the one you needed a compensation for, only then you realize you'd need to change that component, too.

I have found this a very reliable heuristic over the years for the long term, for any components: speaker drivers, crossover parts, cabinets, cables, amps, sources, even recordings. I know about the 432 Hz tuning theory and also about the C37 (Ennemoser) lacquer, all useful, but I think it should not be a workaround to fix mediocre systems.

To me it looks like the Denon D9200 driver could benefit from careful coating (would improve the midrange richness and perceived resolution and improve treble definition while attenuating it a little bit). But this is a next-level mod that requires taking apart the driver (not sure how the protective metallic grid could be disassembled, I think it's glued).

 

[RoyGB]

So I just got my aftermarket cable in. Which means that I get to use the wonders of the English language to try to describe sound. I also try to keep biases in check and I like to try to put what I am writing in perspective, so this is kinda long because of that.

For reference, up until this point I have been using the short portable cable with the 1/4 adapter into my Monolith THX 788 DAC+AMP (which is true balanced from input to output)

The cable is a Norne Audio Vanquish cable (50/50 OCC silver plated copper and OCC copper and some weird geometry stuff. IDK look it up if you want to know more), I bought it secondhand off of another 9200 owner that was selling his headphones and the buyer did not want the cable. This is my first foray into balanced and aftermarket 'high end' headphone cables. So I don't know what is doing what. This could be all balanced making things sound different. Or it could be part balanced, part cable materials.

What I do know though is that this cable did change make these headphones sound different and in a way that I personally liked. The 2 things that I noticed the most I would put into words as soundstage and compression.

This cable seems to really make the soundstage of these headphones cohesive and more spacious. I know others had praised the soundstage of these headphones quite a bit. I personally don't have any reference to what good soundstaging on headphones is supposed to sound like, so I am probably not the best authority on this topic, but what I do know is that the soundstage felt wider and the imaging felt tighter and everything felt more cohesive, and that before this cable, I never really understood what all the hype was about with people comparing these to other soundstagey headphones, this cable does things to the soundstage of these headphones. Granted, I still have no good frame of reference.
This was to a significant enough degree that I feel confident that I would be able to discern between the cables in a blind test. Furthermore, this cable seemed to bring out a bit more extension in this headphone. Comparatively the silver cable is still to bright and kills to much of the bass for me. And my old default, the portable cable, sounds darker with slightly more bass with a narrower soundstage I will say that it is more intimate and tames the treble a bit more so there is some tradeoffs here.

To the other point, compression. I think this has to do with the wider soundstage, greater seperation and sense of space, and perceived greater extension in the treble while keeping almost almost all of the bass that the silver cable kills. This might have something to do with the 50/50 silver/copper design, or it could just be balanced doing balanced things. But it does make the music seem 'more full and more airy' at the same time.

I think that this cable tipped these headphones into the realm of 'uniqe enough' for me to really want to use them. They felt too reference with slightly boosted bass and treble but not in a 'fun' V-shaped way. They were just kinda boring, great detail, but boring. I was opting to listen to my SVS Ultras in my 2.1 more often than not. With the improved soundstage, they now do just enough differently to the sound that I want to listen to these headphones more often and that they bring something unique to the table.

Norne does not sell the vanquish line anymore from what I can tell on their website. And this cable was $190 brand new. I personally cant tell you how worth it this might be because there is too many thing changing at once for me to pinpoint what is the cause of my perceived improvement. If it is mostly just because it is now balanced, $60-80 for a balanced cable I can deem as worth it. If it has something to do with materials and geometry and everything else. Maybe. It does do some really great things for the 9200. If you can find one used for a really good deal like I was able to, absolutely pick one up. If not, you need to make that call for yourself. Everyone's 'worth it' is different. But I will report that this cable does make an audible difference and one that I find makes these headphones more enjoyable. The difference is not huge. It is not going to transform your headphones or your listening experience. We are still talking about a wire here. But it does enough to matter.

On another note, I just bought a bunch of tubes for my Project Ember that I am going to start rolling through once my adapters arrive, so I'll drop some tube impressions in this thread at some point. I'm probably going to get a 4 pin balanced to 1/4 adapter at some point in the near future so I can swap between my tube amp and my SS without having to change cables. Once I get it, I might be able to help determine how much of the improvement is because it is balanced and how much is the cable construction.

 

[cihangir71]

...

 

[foniak]

What are the difference from this compared to a DT770 or AKG371 price range? i produce dnb. Am I paying for a legit upgrade or im wasting my time (and money)?

 

[RoyGB]

What are the difference from this compared to a DT770 or AKG371 price range? i produce dnb. Am I paying for a legit upgrade or im wasting my time (and money)?

Alright, I feel like I might be somewhat qualified to tackle this. DnB is one of the main genres that I listen to. And I listen to pretty much all the sub genres as well. I don't know all that much about actually producing, but I do know my way around DnB and my 9200's quite well.

First and foremost, that is a huge step up in price. Are you looking at any inbetween pairs?

These may not be the best for DnB due to their slight V-shape and elevated treble, then again they could also be really good for the same reason if you can can master around them. From what I understand about production you want a flatter frequency response. This is because if you are adjusting levels based on your headphones character, then you could overcompensate. For instance if you perceive too much treble with your headphones you may reduce the volume of your cymbals and hihats, etc... Likewise for bass. I think a great example of this might be Verve by Camo & Krooked. That song has some murderballs treble if your headphones do not have recessed treble, it is really bright on the D9200's whereas it sounds fine on my other headphones that have rolled off treble. My assumption is that it was mastered on gear that did not have strong upper range and they overcompensated.

That being said, if you know how to tune around your headphones these actually are really good for DnB if compensated correctly. The D9200's are very close to being reference IMO. The relative bass and treble bumps may lend themselves to better mastering. I would say their most direct competitor for mastering would be the DT1990's. Which also have elevated treble (these are better).

So what are you getting for the extra cash: Increase in detail in your music production. Better resolution across all frequency ranges(think in terms of video. 720p audio vs 4k audio. 720p is plenty sharp and the intent gets across fine. But 4k is that much sharper and clearer with a good bit of diminishing returns.). Better instrument separation(think slurred speech vs clear and articulate speech but with music), better soundstaging and imaging (this is more important if you want to convey space from the listener and ability to locate those instruments in that space, not all that critical for DnB). All of which really are not critical for DnB. But what may be important is the headphones ability to extend far into the bass and treble without significant rolloff. This is going to allow you to have a much better idea of how your music sounds when played through a really good system. You are going to be able to play around with sub bass more, and audio over 10k. Both really important for DnB. Cymbals and hihats in DnB do usually extend into upper treble past 8k and sub bass is equally as important and hopefully self explanatory. This may allow you better idea of what you are actually producing and giving you more audible frequency ranges to play with. Cheaper headphones tend to roll off more, so you don't hear the bass going down as low or the full crash and extension of cymbals.

You will be able to produce DnB with cheaper headphones, and likely the difference wont be huge in the end result, if there at all. Especially if you are using synth's and drum machines and the like. You are still able to gather the intent of your music. These will not make you a better producer. But what they may do is allow you better ideas of what you are producing. As long as you keep in mind that you may need to cross reference your levels on other gear or account for the D9200's FR then they are really good for DnB.

I will also warn you that these may be good enough to grab you by your gender inclusive genitalia and force you into the world of audiophilia against your will and better judgement. Because all of a sudden everything else sounds like garbage. SVS Ultras did that for me, and I have spent several times the amount that these speakers cost me initially on other gear. You have been warned.

Also, PM me some of your stuff or link to where I can demo or buy it. I am curious now.

 

[slsmaster]

I can absolutely confirm that the Denon 9200 really benefits from a quality copper cable (as Zolkis and some other members already pointed out). Highly recommended! I have upgraded to a Forza Audioworks Noir HPC MK2. I will try out Stax 009 earpads next!

 

[cihangir71]

Hello,

I want to inform you about my denon d9200 journey. I bought this masterpiece a few months ago from "hifiklubben.nl" web store in Netherlands.
Last month, i wanted to sell my headphone because i used it very little time. Anyway, after i check some second hand sale advertisements for the same headphone, i realized that my package has missing parts. Then i ended my sale proccess.

When i receive the package after my order, i just started to listen my new headphone and i did not pay attention to package details. I am sure that; I received only 2 cables and headphone with the package. Always I keep my high end equipment parts even if i do not use them. I keep also all parts of this package such as boxes, plastic covers some cartoon covers etc.
I saw also some other owners packages and all of them have additionally 1 adaptor jack, 1 user manual and 1 microfiber cloth.
I've never received these parts with my package. That's all i know.

I contacted to hifiklubben.nl web store and also Denon Netherlands customer service. Web store just tried to sent an adaptor jack to me and forwarded me to Denon's customer support.
Denon customer service said to me just to call hifiklubben.nl web store.
I am really dissappointed for their customer care(!) and service. I like my headphone but i do not believe anymore my package was a brand new package because of these missing parts. I wanted to replacement with the new and completely full package because this is very suspicious and strange situation.
They didn't not want to fix their mistake and as i understand, i can not do anything else. I am very disappointed for Denon's customer support. I just wanted to inform you

 

[GearMe]

Hello,

I want to inform you about my denon d9200 journey. I bought this masterpiece a few months ago from "hifiklubben.nl" web store in Netherlands.
Last month, i wanted to sell my headphone because i used it very little time. Anyway, after i check some second hand sale advertisements for the same headphone, i realized that my package has missing parts. Then i ended my sale proccess.

When i receive the package after my order, i just started to listen my new headphone and i did not pay attention to package details. I am sure that; I received only 2 cables and headphone with the package. Always I keep my high end equipment parts even if i do not use them. I keep also all parts of this package such as boxes, plastic covers some cartoon covers etc.
I saw also some other owners packages and all of them have additionally 1 adaptor jack, 1 user manual and 1 microfiber cloth.
I've never received these parts with my package. That's all i know.

I contacted to hifiklubben.nl web store and also Denon Netherlands customer service. Web store just tried to sent an adaptor jack to me and forwarded me to Denon's customer support.
Denon customer service said to me just to call hifiklubben.nl web store.
I am really dissappointed for their customer care(!) and service. I like my headphone but i do not believe anymore my package was a brand new package because of these missing parts. I wanted to replacement with the new and completely full package because this is very suspicious and strange situation.
They didn't not want to fix their mistake and as i understand, i can not do anything else. I am very disappointed for Denon's customer support. I just wanted to inform you

Sorry that happened...

Definitely not a good look for hifiklubben.nl web store

 

[jmills8]

It comes with 2 cables.

 

[cihangir71]

It comes with 2 cables.

Do you mean; you didn't receive any extra adaptor jack, user manual and microfiber cloth?