[theveterans]

I can’t guarantee a good set unless you’re willing to spend big $$$ for a guaranteed NOS set from Woo Audio. Ebay is your friend to get these though. You don’t need a matching quad, just two matching pairs for driver and input tube sockets

 

[Currawong]

The cheaper Enleum AMP-23RM (€3700) has similar characteristics as the AMP-23R, but for all of the above described differences it is less explicit, and much closer to the Ayre Codex. Where I would rate the 23R as better than the Codex, the 23RM I would rate as a little bit better.

I have the HPA-23RM in for review, and the interesting thing about it is that due to the Stealth and Expanse having an impedance "shelf" in the bass, the current output results in a slight bass boost. Depending on taste, this may be a good match for some people. I do find it to be a very resolving amp, such that I can clearly hear the difference between using a Hugo 2 and a TT2 as a source, if it doesn't have quite the soundstage that my desktop amps do.

 

[Spawn300Z]

I have the HPA-23RM in for review, and the interesting thing about it is that due to the Stealth and Expanse having an impedance "shelf" in the bass, the current output results in a slight bass boost. Depending on taste, this may be a good match for some people. I do find it to be a very resolving amp, such that I can clearly hear the difference between using a Hugo 2 and a TT2 as a source, if it doesn't have quite the soundstage that my desktop amps do.

We still need a comparison with the Cayin C9.

 

[Hifivoice]

I have the HPA-23RM in for review

It's a beautiful small good sounding amp.

I have a 4.4mm Pentacon connector on my Expanse, which I drive via a convertor plug towards 6,3mm. When plugging and unplugging I did see one side effect of the 23RM; it enabled some short-circuit protection. We had to reset it a couple of times. The solution was simple; unplug the 6,3mm plug first, and then take out the 4.4mm.

 

[DarginMahkum]

It's a beautiful small good sounding amp.

Beautiful, small and extremely overpriced amp.

 

[Hifivoice]

Beautiful, small and extremely overpriced amp.

If price is a concern; there are cheaper alternatives, e.g. the following one can be found on Aliexpress for about €8

 

[DarginMahkum]

If price is a concern; there are cheaper alternatives, e.g. the following one can be found on Aliexpress for about €8

Ehm, who says I need one.

 

[babarrun]

If price is a concern; there are cheaper alternatives, e.g. the following one can be found on Aliexpress for about €8

can it drive the expanse?

 

[Hifivoice]

can it drive the expanse?

I have no clue, but if price is a major concern, why even consider an Expanse?

More seriously;

• I agree the Enleums are pretty pricey for what they offer material wise (I know there is also R&D costs, associated component costs for low volumes, etc. etc.; but it's still pretty costly when you compare it e.g. to what iFi puts in a box).
• Absolute sound quality wise, they are very good in my opinion
• The ratio sound quality over price (aka value) is a bit off in my opinion, my Ayre Codex would be around €2000 new (not available anymore; I bought it second hand for €300 ), and I consider it to be close to 90% quality (whatever that means), and its lush mid-range even supersedes the Enleum 23R; and consider it up to 95% of the quality of an 23RM. The Ayre also includes an integrated DAC. So value-wise I think it is a better option, where I don't miss a lot of the enjoyment. .
• There are alternatives out there (Zahl, Holo) which are reported to be better than an Enleum (e.g. here, no experience myself), and are similarly or cheaper priced.

So overall, sound-wise the Enleums will give you a lot of joy. Whether you want to spend that amount of money for that increment in quality is a personal choice.

Whether it is a rational choice to buy an Enleum? You can also question the €4500 for an Expanse; it is a lot of money for a headphone, despite the fact it is well engineered and I personally do understand the pirce and value. My AirPods Pro 2 (for general mobile use, business trips or vacation) also make me enjoy a lot of music at a fraction of the price. So it is your threshold that determines whether something is worth the exponential step in price for a linear or logarithmic increment in quality.

 

[alxw0w]

I have no clue, but if price is a major concern, why even consider an Expanse?

Maybe because transducer (being headphones or speakers) are still the most important part of our sound "chain".
And uber expensive DACs/amps/streamers/cables are not necessarily needed (not that personally I have something against paying through the nose for something that is really outstanding technically/design/material/look wise. I don't mind expensive stuff, but also I'm against saying that without spending small fortune you cannot have top hi-fi sound)

Hope that helps

 

[babarrun]

Maybe because transducer (being headphones or speakers) are still the most important part of our sound "chain".
And uber expensive DACs/amps/streamers/cables are not necessarily needed (not that personally I have something against paying through the nose for something that is really outstanding technically/design/material/look wise. I don't mind expensive stuff, but also I'm against saying that without spending small fortune you cannot have top hi-fi sound)

Hope that helps

I very much agree with you. I did add some more expensive items (HoloAudio) after tinkering with Topping's offerings around the $500 - $700 range as well as mid to higher end DAP's. I never got the Expanse to shine the way it does now and am so very glad that I did otherwise I would likely just get half the value of the Expanse and would have been better off using cheaper headphones. Interestingly I didn't really feel the benefits of the HoloAudio stack until over a 120 hours of burnin.

Now I have to pull myself back when I am thinking of adding something less than high end (for me) to my rig. so my $0.02 are if you buy the Expanse spend a little more than $1000 for the dac / amp. I also have the RMI ADI which is fantastic for the price.

The shop I bought the headphone from suggested spending the same amounts on DAC, AMP and Streamer. I dunno if I buy into this but would be interesting to hear everyone's thoughts as it relates to the Expanse.


EDIT: I am referring to my expanse above.

 

[alxw0w]

I very much agree with you. I did add some more expensive items (HoloAudio) after tinkering with Topping's offerings around the $500 - $700 range as well as mid to higher end DAP's. I never got the Expanse to shine the way it does now and am so very glad that I did otherwise I would likely just get half the value of the Expanse and would have been better off using cheaper headphones. Interestingly I didn't really feel the benefits of the HoloAudio stack until over a 120 hours of burnin.

Now I have to pull myself back when I am thinking of adding something less than high end (for me) to my rig. so my $0.02 are if you buy the Expanse spend a little more than $1000 for the dac / amp. I also have the RMI ADI which is fantastic for the price.

The shop I bought the headphone from suggested spending the same amounts on DAC, AMP and Streamer. I dunno if I buy into this but would be interesting to hear everyone's thoughts as it relates to the Expanse.

It's always better to put 4k into headphones and let's say 1k for dac/amp than spending 4k for dac/amp and 1k for a transducer.
You will get far better outcome.

But keep in mind that there are exceptions as price in this industry a lot of the times means very little when it comes to performance/price ratio.

 

[theveterans]

The amp would be the next most significant influence to thr expanse sound. Expanse is just picky that it does need both current and voltage to make it sound that’s worth its price tag. For me, Tubes provide the voltage part of the equation while output transformers provide the current and impedance matching for Expanse. You can also try a cheap class D speaker amp with a cheap class A tube buffer preamp for less than 500 dollars and achieve something very close to a multi kilobuck headphone amp but you won’t have the subtle refinements in the resolution that something like the Bliss or the Enelum can provide

 

[babarrun]

The amp would be the next most significant influence to thr expanse sound. Expanse is just picky that it does need both current and voltage to make it sound that’s worth its price tag. For me, Tubes provide the voltage part of the equation while output transformers provide the current and impedance matching for Expanse. You can also try a cheap class D speaker amp with a cheap class A tube buffer preamp for less than 500 dollars and achieve something very close to a multi kilobuck headphone amp but you won’t have the subtle refinements in the resolution that something like the Bliss or the Enelum can provide

theveterans, what tube buffer would you recommend?
I looked for woo audio on eBay but nothing popped up save the fireflies.

 

[theveterans]

I use a Schiit Saga OG that you can get used for 150-200 USD or get a Saga+ if you want a brand new tube buffer preamp. I have lots of 5692 tubes on my stash which I recommend over the stock 6SN7 for best dynamics and soundstage expansion for Expanse. Stock Tungsol 6SN7 works great but the 5692 with the Saga improves it a bit further in my experience