Dan Clark Audio EXPANSE Review: Interview, Measurements, Impressions
Oct 4, 2023 at 3:42 PM Post #2,311 of 2,594
Shouldn't Roon users be able to load convolution filters directly via Roon?
Possibly, I don't know. The method I have mentioned above supports any VST, including (as shown above) convolution filter VSTs, even when playing games. Maybe there is another method using Roon, but I don't have Roon, so I don't know if there is an alternative method.
 
Oct 4, 2023 at 3:43 PM Post #2,312 of 2,594
We have a couple in house, VERY nice units. We particularly love the fact you have independent DSP and volume for each of the headphone outputs.
 
Dan Clark Audio Make every day a fun day filled with music and friendship! Stay updated on Dan Clark Audio at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
@funCANS MrSpeakers https://danclarkaudio.com info@danclarkaudio.com
Oct 4, 2023 at 3:44 PM Post #2,314 of 2,594
Shouldn't Roon users be able to load convolution filters directly via Roon?
As far as I know that's not an option. Roon DSP is handled within Roon, not the client. REW allows filter exports but that's really for room response.
 
Dan Clark Audio Make every day a fun day filled with music and friendship! Stay updated on Dan Clark Audio at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
@funCANS MrSpeakers https://danclarkaudio.com info@danclarkaudio.com
Oct 4, 2023 at 3:46 PM Post #2,315 of 2,594
Thanks for sharing that... As I thought, you can download a filter profile to Roon from REW or maybe other apps, the problem is that unless you have a headphone response target and a calibrated system REW filters will not work correctly because they won't map to a proper target.

Your best bet for DSP is to just work off the measurements posted on ASR to adjust relative to the Harman response we targeted. Anything else is just guesswork...
 
Dan Clark Audio Make every day a fun day filled with music and friendship! Stay updated on Dan Clark Audio at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
@funCANS MrSpeakers https://danclarkaudio.com info@danclarkaudio.com
Oct 4, 2023 at 4:18 PM Post #2,316 of 2,594
We have a couple in house, VERY nice units. We particularly love the fact you have independent DSP and volume for each of the headphone outputs.
When I tell people that there is no device in the market that can replace it for me, they often think I am exaggerating but I am not. I am very honest. There is just no other device in the market that comes even close to the possibilities of this unit. I remember, developers were asking the users what to do with the extra DSP processing power left. They even implemented a RIAA mode - I guess in their free time :D

 
Oct 4, 2023 at 11:37 PM Post #2,317 of 2,594
Thanks for sharing that... As I thought, you can download a filter profile to Roon from REW or maybe other apps, the problem is that unless you have a headphone response target and a calibrated system REW filters will not work correctly because they won't map to a proper target.

Your best bet for DSP is to just work off the measurements posted on ASR to adjust relative to the Harman response we targeted. Anything else is just guesswork...
thanks for this. is the only measurement a reduction of gain to -2 in band1?

I got an excellent response on the RME ADI 1 FS using recommended changes for the Expanse from r/Oratory. Wanted to see how I could get something similar in my current holoaudio listening rig.
 
Oct 5, 2023 at 1:03 AM Post #2,318 of 2,594
thanks for this. is the only measurement a reduction of gain to -2 in band1?

I got an excellent response on the RME ADI 1 FS using recommended changes for the Expanse from r/Oratory. Wanted to see how I could get something similar in my current holoaudio listening rig.

In ROON you can use the Parametric EQ to manually and one-by-one add the Oratory settings.

pEQ.jpeg


I myself use a Mac as a source, and use SoundStudio with the AUNBandEQ AppleAU plugin. You can real-time drag certain EQ settings, and hear the effect immediately. In SoundStudio you can also select an Oratory curve directly, and apply it (I think it sounds "too thin").

There are a lot of other options out there: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ows-linux-macos-ios-ipados-and-android.18450/
 
Oct 5, 2023 at 1:19 AM Post #2,319 of 2,594
Thanks for sharing that... As I thought, you can download a filter profile to Roon from REW or maybe other apps, the problem is that unless you have a headphone response target and a calibrated system REW filters will not work correctly because they won't map to a proper target.

Your best bet for DSP is to just work off the measurements posted on ASR to adjust relative to the Harman response we targeted. Anything else is just guesswork...

It seems you can put a target curve in REW. Some Harman Target curves can be found here. I never played with it myself though. Advantage of a convolution filter is that it also considers the temporal behaviour (e.g. reflections and resonances - which you already process mechanic-acoustically with the Acoustic Metamaterial Tuning System).

Measured curves are of great help, and makes sure you at least know what you are doing. Without it you are guessing, and optimising the sound on specific recordings.

My experience with trying to make a perfect fit to the Harman Target are not so good. The sound becomes thin and sizzly with the Expanse (a bright haze).

When I do the same for my Sennheiser HD660, the resulting sound characteristic is pretty different. I even tried to make one sound like the other. Not even close... There is more than just the frequency response that determines the sound characteristics (temporal behaviour, distortion, dynamic compression, ear-headphone interaction, exact position of the headphone on your head, ...).
 
Oct 5, 2023 at 4:33 AM Post #2,320 of 2,594
After careful consideration, I have now added the Expanse to my personal collection 😎

NOMAX

PS.lol
 
Oct 5, 2023 at 4:50 AM Post #2,321 of 2,594
After careful consideration, I have now added the Expanse to my personal collection 😎

NOMAX

PS.lol
Wise choice!
Welcome to the Club of happy Expanse owners
 
Oct 5, 2023 at 5:57 AM Post #2,322 of 2,594
After careful consideration, I have now added the Expanse to my personal collection 😎

NOMAX

PS.lol
What made you decide on that? I've been eyeing the Expanse on the classifieds but I haven't been able to justify owning both Stealth and Expanse since they're so similar..
 
Oct 5, 2023 at 6:15 AM Post #2,323 of 2,594
After careful consideration, I have now added the Expanse to my personal collection 😎

NOMAX

PS.lol
I tried the composer and score last weekend. It's fantastic. didn't get a lot of time with it at the UK audio show but really thinking of getting it.
How does it run on the RME compared to the score?
 
Oct 5, 2023 at 11:06 AM Post #2,324 of 2,594
It seems you can put a target curve in REW. Some Harman Target curves can be found here. I never played with it myself though. Advantage of a convolution filter is that it also considers the temporal behaviour (e.g. reflections and resonances - which you already process mechanic-acoustically with the Acoustic Metamaterial Tuning System).

Measured curves are of great help, and makes sure you at least know what you are doing. Without it you are guessing, and optimising the sound on specific recordings.

My experience with trying to make a perfect fit to the Harman Target are not so good. The sound becomes thin and sizzly with the Expanse (a bright haze).

When I do the same for my Sennheiser HD660, the resulting sound characteristic is pretty different. I even tried to make one sound like the other. Not even close... There is more than just the frequency response that determines the sound characteristics (temporal behaviour, distortion, dynamic compression, ear-headphone interaction, exact position of the headphone on your head, ...).
The thing about the Harman curve is it was made on a GRAS 45CA with specific mics and ears… you can certainly import the target but unless you have a 45CA with the right ears what you measure will not match what a GRAS measures so you will have a mapping error… each measuring system would have to have an adaptation of the Harman to match its behavior.
 
Dan Clark Audio Make every day a fun day filled with music and friendship! Stay updated on Dan Clark Audio at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
@funCANS MrSpeakers https://danclarkaudio.com info@danclarkaudio.com
Oct 5, 2023 at 4:02 PM Post #2,325 of 2,594
The thing about the Harman curve is it was made on a GRAS 45CA with specific mics and ears… you can certainly import the target but unless you have a 45CA with the right ears what you measure will not match what a GRAS measures so you will have a mapping error… each measuring system would have to have an adaptation of the Harman to match its behavior.

That is definitely true.

On top, the Harman curve is a result of a dozen or so of EQ settings. Having a target curve on a grid of 0,25Hz seems to be a bit overdone to me...
 

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