[TheMiddleSky]

Which Norne cable did you use on your Expanse, if you don't mind me asking? I just got my Expanse running on a new Conductor 3X GT and after just an evening of running it, it all sounds a bit thin to me this morning still. My previous chain was a Bifrost 2/64 to Jotunheim 2 so I was expecting a good bump up in overall quality, but none of my Norne cables are terminated to the DCA connectors so I'm stuck with the stock cable on it also. I will soon need to decide if I want to keep this combo or maybe get an Elite to try. The Conductor is probably a bit overkill on the Elite for power, but I should be able to at least compare the Elite on the same DAC/Amp.

I also think Burson GT (amp only) is a bit thin for Expanse. I really like the Tube pairing, or something warmer Solid state such as Bakoon/Enleum.

So what was your favorite? I haven’t had a chance to hear any of the ZMF products yet. Certainly are nice to look at.

So far Elite is still my favourite. Sold Atrium already (but still own Verite). I returned the Expanse, as I thought Caldera would suit me better (in term of character).

Expanse has really nice technical capabilities (especially in micro detail and pin point imaging accuracy that able to match best of the best other Planar out there), but I think for some of my songs could become too revealing.

You had compared them on a signal to noise ratio chain loss that what in the bleep.

Tell me exactly what 801evan is using specifically so I may avoid it entirely.

 

[brianfromspace]

If you are talking about that recent video review, no, I don’t experience anything like that lol. I think that reviewer has some specific tastes as this is literally the only time anyone has said this in the web. He is not even saying it has scooped mids, just some ephemeral “flat” mids whatever that means.

As I told him though, I have a V1 without any of guys other Enleum issues either, also Expanse is a very mid-centric headphone so it may just be a perfect pairing.

Aight thanks for sharing. And what are your thoughts re Expanse direct out TT2?

 

[xirxes]

Aight thanks for sharing. And what are your thoughts re Expanse direct out TT2?

Its better than many standalone amps, but to my taste it is more sterile/clinical without an instantly impressive development of bass quantity/quality as compared to the additional amplifier, such as wells audio headtrip, Enleum. Bakoon, Zahl HM1 or Ferrum Stack further in the chain all provide.

It IS better than a topping stack, better than a RME ADI2, better than any Schiiit stack, and any other DAC AMP standalone to be sure, and soundstage is really quite good and well developed with the Expanse.

 

[msq123]

Its better than many standalone amps, but to my taste it is more sterile/clinical without an instantly impressive development of bass quantity/quality as compared to the additional amplifier, such as wells audio headtrip, Enleum. Bakoon, Zahl HM1 or Ferrum Stack further in the chain all provide.

It IS better than a topping stack, better than a RME ADI2, better than any Schiiit stack, and any other DAC AMP standalone to be sure, and soundstage is really quite good and well developed with the Expanse.

I think you summed up well. TT2 is a much better DAC than an amp but as a compact standalone it is unbeatable. As an amp while not class leading is no slouch but probably not enough for expanse as I understand the power requirement which are in line with stealth. Maybe from the back but I haven’t used that myself.

Lately my preferences have moved to tube amps and I mostly use this as a DAC in to ZMF pendant or Cayin 300 mk2. I think it is a better DAC than many R2R with tubes and provide better synergy so if you have similar setup it is still a viable option.

 

[Spawn300Z]

I think you summed up well. TT2 is a much better DAC than an amp but as a compact standalone it is unbeatable. As an amp while not class leading is no slouch but probably not enough for expanse as I understand the power requirement which are in line with stealth. Maybe from the back but I haven’t used that myself.

Lately my preferences have moved to tube amps and I mostly use this as a DAC in to ZMF pendant or Cayin 300 mk2. I think it is a better DAC than many R2R with tubes and provide better synergy so if you have similar setup it is still a viable option.

I agree. I recently received the expanse to go with my Stealth. The Stealth is great off MScaler/TT2. The Expanse is good off the TT2 but when connected to my MScaler/TT2/Riviera AIC-10 it takes the Expanse to another level sonically. I really enjoy them with that combo. This has me believing the Expanse while easer to drive than the Susvara it does benefit from having more power to them. They Scale real well.

 

[xirxes]

I agree. I recently received the expanse to go with my Stealth. The Stealth is great off MScaler/TT2. The Expanse is good off the TT2 but when connected to my MScaler/TT2/Riviera AIC-10 it takes the Expanse to another level sonically. I really enjoy them with that combo. This has me believing the Expanse while easer to drive than the Susvara it does benefit from having more power to them. They Scale real well.

I still assert that the best combo I’ve heard out of expanse yet is M17-TT2-AmpsandSound Nautilus.

It’s a bit unwieldy/bulky/non pragmatic for my current setup but better than anything under 100k$ for sure

 

[iamoneagain]

I still assert that the best combo I’ve heard out of expanse yet is M17-TT2-AmpsandSound Nautilus.

It’s a bit unwieldy/bulky/non pragmatic for my current setup but better than anything under 100k$ for sure

Think this might have been what was setup at CanJam. They had me try directly out of the TT2/mscaler but then quickly moved me over to the AmpandSound setup. Believe source was still the TT2/mscaler. This was definitely a step up than direct connect. Direct connection lacked warmth.

The AmpandSound was very dynamic and has more warmth. But it still didn’t come close to the Woo WA23 Luna I heard 10 minutes prior. That has a more liquid tube sound with a warmer sound with more bass impact. In my short time it sounded perfect and not too bassy. The Woo was sourced by the DSC Lina without extra clock. Not sure how much that impacted the sound since I didn’t like the complete stack but possibly the DCS Lina amp really hampered the rest of the sound.

Seeing these more critical reviews has me listening more closing lately to my setup. Going back to albums I loved with the Utopia and for the most part I’m finding the same love or even more enjoyment. The detail and sound of the electric guitar is some of the best I’ve heard. A lot of headphones are too smooth in this area.

 

[HONEYBOY]

Think this might have been what was setup at CanJam. They had me try directly out of the TT2/mscaler but then quickly moved me over to the AmpandSound setup. Believe source was still the TT2/mscaler. This was definitely a step up than direct connect. Direct connection lacked warmth.

The AmpandSound was very dynamic and has more warmth. But it still didn’t come close to the Woo WA23 Luna I heard 10 minutes prior. That has a more liquid tube sound with a warmer sound with more bass impact. In my short time it sounded perfect and not too bassy. The Woo was sourced by the DSC Lina without extra clock. Not sure how much that impacted the sound since I didn’t like the complete stack but possibly the DCS Lina amp really hampered the rest of the sound.

Seeing these more critical reviews has me listening more closing lately to my setup. Going back to albums I loved with the Utopia and for the most part I’m finding the same love or even more enjoyment. The detail and sound of the electric guitar is some of the best I’ve heard. A lot of headphones are too smooth in this area.

The WA23 Luna with the Lina DAC was fantastic and one of the most transfixed experience I’ve had. I too heard it with the Expanse and Stealth. That experience is what lead me to acquire the Luna.

I used it initially with the Hugo 2 DAC. There was some drop for sure in overall resolution, transparency and realism, but not by a ton, so I’m more inclined to think that the amp was doing most of the heavy lifting in the CanJam combo.

 

[iamoneagain]

The WA23 Luna with the Lina DAC was fantastic and one of the most transfixed experience I’ve had. I too heard it with the Expanse and Stealth. That experience is what lead me to acquire the Luna.

I used it initially with the Hugo 2 DAC. There was some drop for sure in overall resolution, transparency and realism, but not by a ton, so I’m more inclined to think that the amp was doing most of the heavy lifting in the CanJam combo.

This is good to know. Not sure I could afford it at the moment but could eventually add it to my Naim HE, since that works as a preamp. I’m sure other headphones sound wonderful on Luna too. Plus it’s a work of art.

 

[xirxes]

I don’t know how much lifting the Lina DAC is doing in the mix, but the Lina full stack was an absolute flop with Expanse.

To my ears one of the worst pairings I’ve experienced.

 

[iamoneagain]

I don’t know how much lifting the Lina DAC is doing in the mix, but the Lina full stack was an absolute flop with Expanse.

To my ears one of the worst pairings I’ve experienced.

Yep, same for me. It was the first thing I tried at CanJam. Roon had the stack and I waited about 15 minutes for them to get it setup. I believe I tried LCD-X or the LCD-5 first. It sounded pretty good with decent bass. But then I hooked my Expanse up and wow, what a let down. Very little bass, so no rhythm. Didn’t hear anymore resolution or layering than my Naim HE.

So yeah, if someone was comparing headphones using that stack, would doubt anyone would pick the Expanse. Even heard the HD800s on it later in the day and was impressed with the bass and soundstage. Always heard those were bass light but they even had more bass than the Expanse out of the Lina stack.

But hearing the Expanse out of the Wa23 Lunu was quite the opposite experience. Full liquid bass from the Expanse with great control and the mid detail still coming thru. Now I don’t remember if I tried another headphone out of the Luna, so it’s possible all headphones sound wonderful with it.

 

[adrianm]

I don’t know how much lifting the Lina DAC is doing in the mix, but the Lina full stack was an absolute flop with Expanse.

To my ears one of the worst pairings I’ve experienced.

The Lina amp is a huge bottleneck in the stack. Much worse than my Oor. The dac and clock are amazing

 

[iamoneagain]

The Lina amp is a huge bottleneck in the stack. Much worse than my Oor. The dac and clock are amazing

I’m assuming some of it has to do with power? So efficient headphones will probably sound great with the stack, like the few I heard at the meet.

So think some of the dislike for the Expanse can be due to mismatches. Some could be the very close soundstage.

I do like that we’ve got to more critical posts. Sometimes in these threads people are afraid to say anything bad. I would rather have a more balanced discussion. We all have different tastes, so as long as we know why someone doesn’t care for something, can make sound decisions based on that.

 

[Spawn300Z]

I’m waiting for my new cables to arrive. Once they do I plan to run the Expanse off the Riviera AIC-10 speaker taps. They have scaled beautifully using the 6.33mm headphone jack. I wondering if they will scale more.

 

[adrianm]

I’m assuming some of it has to do with power? So efficient headphones will probably sound great with the stack, like the few I heard at the meet.

So think some of the dislike for the Expanse can be due to mismatches. Some could be the very close soundstage.

I do like that we’ve got to more critical posts. Sometimes in these threads people are afraid to say anything bad. I would rather have a more balanced discussion. We all have different tastes, so as long as we know why someone doesn’t care for something, can make sound decisions based on that.

It's not just power, I used my Elites to compare the Lina stack to my setup. It's just...not a great amp.
That's true for any piece of gear really. People need to stop jumping on hype trains, be more objective, and less self-centered. Or at least realize that they're being subjective.
They'd also be less offended by reviews or other's opinions.