[Erick Muller]

Tungsten is easier to drive than Susvara using OTL tube amps. Susvara can't be driven with OTL amps just like the E3, but Tungsten is a much easier load for OTL tube than both Susvara and E3 since it's more voltage hungry than current hungry

I supposed that's because of the higher impedance of the Tungsten compare to susvara or DCA E3, but again, going by the numbers, if your amp can provide at least 10v into 64ohm, you're golden with susvara, Ryan recommended 20v into 135ohm to drive properly his new pair of cans(that is for the SS version of tungsten), so it's significantly harder to drive. Of course all of this depends how loud do you intend to listen with any pair of cans.

 

[theveterans]

20V is easily achievable by tube amplification using high impedance load like Tungsten since they’re voltage driven amps. With Susvara in my experience, it needs a heck of a lot more current and while at the same time providing a moderately high voltage at moderate impedance to make it loud and sound incredibly good. These days many amps and make the Sus loud since they provide enough voltage for this requirement, but only few amps can provide the necessary current to make it sound worthy of being a TOTL headphone. E3 is a lot harder to drive with Class A Single Ended tubes due to demanding current draw at low impedance but this low impedance load is most suited for SS amps due to its impedance being the sweet spot for many SS amps to produce the highest voltage and current at those load impedance.

 

[Terriero]

It is a mistake to correlate price with quality, you'd be more correct to correlate the age (in terms of how old the design is) with quality. Today's best $150 amps/DACs far outperform the best of the earlier 2010s and 2000s, which is when many of today's most popular amps and DACs were designed. For example, both the $3,500 Benchmark HPA4 and $290 SMSL SH-9 use a pair of THX-AAA 888 amplifiers... yup, the same amplifiers! Along with the same type of volume control. Both generally use common, high quality components as well. They measure identically in every area except for power output (and probably crosstalk but this is a nonissue in pretty much any 21st century amp), no doubt influenced by their different power supplies. Gain is also something that might vary between them. On the other hand, there are plenty of technically poor performing amplifiers with 4 figure price tags (or even 5 figures in the speaker world).

For electronics (DACs, amps), a complete set of measurements really tells their story quite well, and level matched blind testing validates this, which is what has led me to part ways with all my overpriced audiophile brand electronics. These devices have a simple job. Power constraints? You can calculate the amount of power you need for a desired SPL for a given headphone, so you don't have to try a headphone+amp combo to figure this out. The E3 doesn't need that much power. Amplifier frequency response? Anything worth a damn will be flat beyond the audible band, including good $100 amps. Then you know the amp isn't affecting your headphone's frequency response. Noise and distortion (THD and IMD), SNR and SINAD? These metrics are dominated by affordable amps (along with that Benchmark amp).

That's getting off topic though. The E3 as said earlier is pretty easy to run: it needs an amp, a transparent amp is always ideal, but it doesn't need that much power. My Chord Mojo 2 handles it just fine. I haven't blind tested it against my Bricasti M1 SE or SMSL SU-X + HeadAmp GS-X Mini or Topping A70 Pro since it's annoying to set that up, but it certainly doesn't sound like I'm missing anything.

If you want to experiment with how the E3 sounds, it takes EQ well due to how low its distortion levels are. After doing so, I ended up back where I started though. The E3's stock tuning is really perfect for me.



Indeed, except with regards to point 1 if you're just power starved and can't get ample volume. Thankfully these days we can get top performing headphone amps and DACs for under $150 though, and these amps have a hell of a lot of power these days like the latest Magni and Atom Amp 2. JDS Labs and THX changed the game in the 2010s.

I love my current AIO (Topping DX1) due to it's very simple and minimalist layout (it powers on with my PC and I use it with my headphones and also with some simple Logitech speakers to watch something on youtube) and it's very low power consumption... But Dan Clarks said here that you need at least 1 W at 32Ω and this device offer 280mW X 2 @32Ω... So, it's a no way for me if I want to stay simple...

 

[Currawong]

SINAD is certainly an overrated metric in some circles and 3rd party data should always take precedence over manufacturer data (some is better than none though), but I am curious about the phase distortion you mention. Is there any good reading material and data for that with the THX amps (or similar NFB amps) and with headphone listening? I've never seen any concrete evidence here. These are pretty wide bandwidth amps, I wouldn't expect much phase distortion but it is true that these measurements are hard to find. That, and I guess comparing the group delay measurement of a headphone with such an amp vs a "pure" Class A amp should address this.

For what it's worth, I certainly perceive no sound stage differences with the E3 between the HeadAmp GS-X Mini, Topping A70 Pro, and Chord Mojo 2.

Not yet. It's speculative, given that either phase issues or group delay can affect perceived soundstage. However, this depends on listening to music that actually has a soundstage to perceive though. Of the SINAD-chasers I've had here: SMSL THX amps sounded dead flat; the AAA789 had weak bass; but the A90D wasn't bad -- just had a bit of that flatness you get from having to filter noise from the switching PSUs. Funnily enough, Chord gear manages to use negative feedback without these issues, but they aren't chasing SINAD, and wouldn't wreck the soundstage just to fight for who can have the an even less inaudible than totally inaudible level of THD.

I have some thoughts on the E3 vs the Utopias on perceived soundstage though, as the Utopias (both original and new) have what I think is a clever trick for improving perception of depth. I need to think about how to articulate this though.

 

[Rhamnetin]

Not yet. It's speculative, given that either phase issues or group delay can affect perceived soundstage. However, this depends on listening to music that actually has a soundstage to perceive though. Of the SINAD-chasers I've had here: SMSL THX amps sounded dead flat; the AAA789 had weak bass; but the A90D wasn't bad -- just had a bit of that flatness you get from having to filter noise from the switching PSUs. Funnily enough, Chord gear manages to use negative feedback without these issues, but they aren't chasing SINAD, and wouldn't wreck the soundstage just to fight for who can have the an even less inaudible than totally inaudible level of THD.

I have some thoughts on the E3 vs the Utopias on perceived soundstage though, as the Utopias (both original and new) have what I think is a clever trick for improving perception of depth. I need to think about how to articulate this though.

I have some go-to test songs for sound stage. I'd be weary making judgements based on other people's listening experiences, especially if they are not level matched blind listening tests since that introduces so much bias. Also, calling products scams based on speculation doesn't seem right; there don't appear to be any lies in the THX-AAA amplifier marketing unless I missed some sound stage claims (which are always unsubstantiated BS when it comes to these electronics and cables and such).

If these issues you mention exist in phase distortion measurements, those are easy obtain for those with an audio analyzer and headphone measuring rig. I'll see if I can work with any owners of such devices, namely showing the phase shifting for such NFB amps vs "pure" Class A amps like my GS-X Mini, and how they affect the group delay response of headphones.

 

[Erick Muller]

I love my current AIO (Topping DX1) due to it's very simple and minimalist layout (it powers on with my PC and I use it with my headphones and also with some simple Logitech speakers to watch something on youtube) and it's very low power consumption... But Dan Clarks said here that you need at least 1 W at 32Ω and this device offer 280mW X 2 @32Ω... So, it's a no way for me if I want to stay simple...

I think the new JDS Labs Atom 2 amp provides 3.5w into 32ohm, so you don't need a speaker amp to power these or anything like that, of course with more and better quality amplification, things tend to sound better.

 

[hanumanbob]

Love the Flux FA-10 with the E3

 

[jonathan c]

Those THX amps are top tier performers in every metric*** no surprise there!

*** "measure well, sound like hell"

 

[Luckyleo]

*** "measure well, sound like hell"

@jonathan c it seems that you and I had similar experiences. Those products (I've not listened to every single one) just aren't in my sweet spot. But, as long as people enjoy the music, I have no problem

Leo

 

[jonathan c]

"Great minds ears think hear alike"

 

[Terriero]

@jonathan c it seems that you and I had similar experiences. Those products (I've not listened to every single one) just aren't in my sweet spot. But, as long as people enjoy the music, I have no problem

Leo

That's the most important thing (at least for me) in this hobby: to enjoy your favourite tunes with whatever headphones, dac, amp and cables...

 

[theveterans]

*** "measure well, sound like hell"

You should try the Schiit Midgard. Measures and sounds incredible (only in XLR out) for the money

 

[skeeb23]

You should try the Schiit Midgard. Measures and sounds incredible (only in XLR out) for the money

+1 to this. I have the Midgard with the BF 2/64 and it did make a great combination. The Midgard didn't really add anything to the E3, but it drove it well and presented it's natural sound presentation with ease.

 

[Rhamnetin]

You should try the Schiit Midgard. Measures and sounds incredible (only in XLR out) for the money

+1 for the Midgard but why only XLR out? Both outputs measure the same, and sound the same with all the headphones I tried unsurprisingly. I wonder if anyone is able to hear any difference in blind testing, if so then it'd be interesting if someone with an analyzer can simulate the load.

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

+1 for the Midgard but why only XLR out? Both outputs measure the same, and sound the same with all the headphones I tried unsurprisingly. I wonder if anyone is able to hear any difference in blind testing, if so then it'd be interesting if someone with an analyzer can simulate the load.

I can definitely confirm I can hear a difference with the Halo output on my Atriums. It’s real and it does good things.