[Carlsan]

Then would you say it is worth it to skip the trio to get the Fourte or is the trio still worth the buy?

If I had the cash I would go to the Fourte, I was quite impressed with them.
Are they worth the more than an extra U.S. grand over the Trio? No, not at all.
I can see getting the trio down the line, if and when I can afford them as I think they are expensive, but the Fourte is way beyond my budget.

When you are going into this price range, the correct thing to do is to audition them. Get onto the head-fi tours, or contact 64 audio directly about a loaner for auditioning.

 

[crinacle]

I'd agree with @Carlsan with one extra finding; the Fourte's midrange is a little odd while the Andro's sound normal. That's enough of a dealbreaker for me at that price.

The Trio is less weird and more "correct" compared to the Fourte and so I'd get the Trio over the Fourte any day if you ask me.

 

[hol598]

I'd agree with @Carlsan with one extra finding; the Fourte's midrange is a little odd while the Andro's sound normal. That's enough of a dealbreaker for me at that price.

The Trio is less weird and more "correct" compared to the Fourte and so I'd get the Trio over the Fourte any day if you ask me.

That’s good to know. My mids are generally my favorite when it comes to my genre choices. My only concern was if the trios truly lacked that beautiful sparkle like the andromedas do in the treble.

 

[warrior1975]

@crinacle I was recently pointed to your thread by a friend, who is really like a super best friend, and I definitely enjoyed reading your list. Excellent format, with great descriptions, lacking unnecessary fluff. Great job bro and thanks for your efforts.

 

[hiflofi]

Short impressions of the Phantom (first time demo) and the Andromeda (heard these before).
Phantom was as warm if not warmer than expected. Andromeda was comparatively brighter, airier. Which sounded more natural and human like? Perhaps the Phantom but the Andromeda was more exciting. A review of the Phantom I read said this "What does uncoloured – or ultimately, natural – music sound like?” and “Do I want to hear my music this way" (source: https://theheadphonelist.com/empire-ears-ep-x-launch-event-euphoria-audio-a-new-era/2/). Yes, the Phantom asks this. Paramore - Emergency. Ask yourself what takes over? The heavy guitar and banging drums (Phantom), or the crashing, ringing cymbals (Andro)? The vocals were more prominent on the Andros. But I don't know, the Phantom seemed a tinge too warm for me. The Andromeda sounded cooler than last time, but it's all relative. The Katana seemed even less full-bodied than the Andromeda.
The technical performance of both IEMs are both high. Soundstages are comparable in size, with the Phantom extending away in the forward direction better. Personally I've never had IEMs or headphones which go 360 on the horizontal plane, only like 200 degrees. Panama - Undertow. Both had accurate imaging. The Weeknd, Drake - Live For. Resolution/clarity/detail retrieval is similar. Andromeda with a more highs perhaps deceivingly gives the sense of more detail. Anderson Paak - Til It's Over, London Grammar - Shyer. The ability to maintain separation while layering elements is close but I think the Phantom takes this. 30STM - This Is War, Lady Gaga - Paparazzi, Mansionair - Speak Easy.
Other general test songs: Tep No - Promises, Muse - Undisclosed Desires, Muse - Supermassive Black Hole, Meadowlark - Paraffin, Future - I'm So Groovy, Future - Real Sisters, Kendrick Lamar - Swimming Pools.

 

[crinacle]

A review of the Phantom I read said this "What does uncoloured – or ultimately, natural – music sound like?” and “Do I want to hear my music this way". Yes, the Phantom asks this.

This is ultimately what killed the Phantom for me. It itself isn't a bad IEM, but the hype surrounding it revolves around it being "neutral" or "natural" in tone, amongst other indirect claims like how it's the most uncoloured thing since plain water. I think a valid comparison here would be the TG334 since it sports a lot of the the Phantom's qualities in its own way: a thick lower midrange, an upper midrange emphasis and a dark-ish upper treble that many (including myself) would see as a lack of upwards extension.

I think the general consensus now is that the TG334 is a very rich, heavy and ultimately coloured piece of gear that brings emotion and depth to music tracks that do not have otherwise. A direct comparison on my end reveal the similarity between the two, except the Phantom was even thicker, even richer and more coloured compared to the 334. It's not even my own singular opinion either; out of all the audiophiles I've met over the two months I was back home only 2 truly liked the Phantom, and even then they claimed that it wasn't close to being neutral in tone either.

Again, the Phantom isn't a bad IEM. But as I've said before, it's not a general purpose IEM like how the A18Tzar or the VE8 is. It's just too unique and appeals to very specific preferences/genres, as the very taste-diverse Singaporean audiophile community can attest to.

Anyways, just to clear the air:

Empire Ears Phantom: Tier A

 

[natemact]

This is ultimately what killed the Phantom for me. It itself isn't a bad IEM, but the hype surrounding it revolves around it being "neutral" or "natural" in tone, amongst other indirect claims like how it's the most uncoloured thing since plain water. I think a valid comparison here would be the TG334 since it sports a lot of the the Phantom's qualities in its own way: a thick lower midrange, an upper midrange emphasis and a dark-ish upper treble that many (including myself) would see as a lack of upwards extension.

I think the general consensus now is that the TG334 is a very rich, heavy and ultimately coloured piece of gear that brings emotion and depth to music tracks that do not have otherwise. A direct comparison on my end reveal the similarity between the two, except the Phantom was even thicker, even richer and more coloured compared to the 334. It's not even my own singular opinion either; out of all the audiophiles I've met over the two months I was back home only 2 truly liked the Phantom, and even then they claimed that it wasn't close to being neutral in tone either.

Again, the Phantom isn't a bad IEM. But as I've said before, it's not a general purpose IEM like how the A18Tzar or the VE8 is. It's just too unique and appeals to very specific preferences/genres, as the very taste-diverse Singaporean audiophile community can attest to.

Anyways, just to clear the air:

Empire Ears Phantom: Tier A

Would never disagree with your assessment considering your iem experience but I have noticed that the Phantom does seem to gain higher praise from those of us that came from 2ch.

Over the years - at least at the shop where I work - I've noticed a preference for the 3 T's - tone, timbre and texture - over detail in loudspeakers and many of us 2ch folk hear these same qualities in the Phantom...doesn't mean it's correct, just what we like : )

 

[crinacle]

Would never disagree with your assessment considering your iem experience but I have noticed that the Phantom does seem to gain higher praise from those of us that came from 2ch.

Over the years - at least at the shop where I work - I've noticed a preference for the 3 T's - tone, timbre and texture - over detail in loudspeakers and many of us 2ch folk hear these same qualities in the Phantom...doesn't mean it's correct, just what we like : )

I'd be honest, I haven't heard a 2ch setup that sounds like the Phantom. Maybe you can recommend some and I can do an A/B comparison to see if our listening matches up.

 

[natemact]

I'd be honest, I haven't heard a 2ch setup that sounds like the Phantom. Maybe you can recommend some and I can do an A/B comparison to see if our listening matches up.

I think it's easier to tell me what's available in your area as I'm just going to send you on a wild goose chase. Off the top of my head - with wide distribution - Harbeth comes to mind.

I didn't want to bring this up due to the sensitivity on the subject but I have two pairs of Phantoms* here - one well through break-in and the other arrived last week with roughly 120 hours now - and OOTB, at least with this latest pair, they sound closed in, lacking depth, slightly loose mid-bass bleeding into lower-mids which will ultimately reduce perceived lower treble but surprisingly upper mids managed to sounded nasally in between. I came back to them ~75 hours later and they sounded as near as I could tell to my original pair. Agree, that treble extension wouldn't be one of their highlights but like most things, it's all a compromise. Picture or it didn't happen : )

Spoiler

Ares II was used for comparison

*No, I'm not crazy. Second pair are warranty replacements. I just didn't want to go two weeks without them while warranty was processed, so we did things a little different. Terrific CS!

 

[invite]

what are peoples' opinions on the er4sr vs old er4s/pt? i see that the new er4sr isn't even in the tier list >_<

 

[crinacle]

I think it's easier to tell me what's available in your area as I'm just going to send you on a wild goose chase. Off the top of my head - with wide distribution - Harbeth comes to mind.

I didn't want to bring this up due to the sensitivity on the subject but I have two pairs of Phantoms* here - one well through break-in and the other arrived last week with roughly 120 hours now - and OOTB, at least with this latest pair, they sound closed in, lacking depth, slightly loose mid-bass bleeding into lower-mids which will ultimately reduce perceived lower treble but surprisingly upper mids managed to sounded nasally in between. I came back to them ~75 hours later and they sounded as near as I could tell to my original pair. Agree, that treble extension wouldn't be one of their highlights but like most things, it's all a compromise. Picture or it didn't happen : )

Spoiler

Ares II was used for comparison

*No, I'm not crazy. Second pair are warranty replacements. I just didn't want to go two weeks without them while warranty was processed, so we did things a little different. Terrific CS!

Wild goose chase me. As you can tell, I have no issues running around to try out interesting audio equipment.

Just to clarify, the demo units I've listened to are store demo units, so they should have hundreds if not thousands of hours of runtime by the time I got to them. I personally am a skeptic in the burn-in debate but that shouldn't matter considering this detail.

 

[natemact]

LOL K I'll give you one more that should be an easy find, Spendor. Are you in Australia? If so, you'll should be able to find both : )

Ya, you really have to A/B OOTB/burn-in to believe, I understand your skepticism. As you know, just because Phantoms improved over time doesn't mean every transducer will....though all caps do lol, but let's burn this burn-in discussion as like I mentioned, I didn't want to go down this rabbit hole.

 

[shutterbox]

I think it's easier to tell me what's available in your area as I'm just going to send you on a wild goose chase. Off the top of my head - with wide distribution - Harbeth comes to mind.

I didn't want to bring this up due to the sensitivity on the subject but I have two pairs of Phantoms* here - one well through break-in and the other arrived last week with roughly 120 hours now - and OOTB, at least with this latest pair, they sound closed in, lacking depth, slightly loose mid-bass bleeding into lower-mids which will ultimately reduce perceived lower treble but surprisingly upper mids managed to sounded nasally in between. I came back to them ~75 hours later and they sounded as near as I could tell to my original pair. Agree, that treble extension wouldn't be one of their highlights but like most things, it's all a compromise. Picture or it didn't happen : )

Spoiler

Ares II was used for comparison

*No, I'm not crazy. Second pair are warranty replacements. I just didn't want to go two weeks without them while warranty was processed, so we did things a little different. Terrific CS!

I've own 3 pairs of harbeth speakers (still have 2 with me)
M series harbeth are neutral and great timbre, natural and accurate tone, home series (eg SHL5, C7) do sound warmer but not losing much the attributes of M series
While harbeth have a warm sound, none of them have the coloration of that i heard off a phantom..

I don't get the talk about naturalness of phantom. Easy sounding and warm, yes.

 

[Wyville]

I've own 3 pairs of harbeth speakers (still have 2 with me)
M series harbeth are neutral and great timbre, natural and accurate tone, home series (eg SHL5, C7) do sound warmer but not losing much the attributes of M series
While harbeth have a warm sound, none of them have the coloration of that i heard off a phantom..

I don't get the talk about naturalness of phantom. Easy sounding and warm, yes.

I for one consider the Phantom to be exceptionally natural, but for me natural does not have to be neutral or uncoloured and the Phantom are certainly not neutral. Because I know different people use different definitions, I describe the music I listen to in my reviews so people can get a sense of why I consider certain IEMs to sound a certain way. I feel the Phantom are damn near perfectly balanced because of how I hear classical symphonies and how instruments are layered. For instance, while the Phantom are warm and smooth, the bass section in (say) Beethoven's 5th by Gardiner is not (in my opinion) dominant and string sections come through really well. The realism of the Phantom comes from things like hearing the difference in presentation between period instruments (Gardiner) and modern instruments (Rattle), something that is in my experience difficult to replicate. I am not saying that this is the "right" way to evaluate IEMs, it is just the way I do it, and why I think it is really important to explain my opinion by describing how I hear the music. That way someone else can listen to the same music with the Phantom and with the same gear as me and consider for themselves if my description is accurate and whether or not they agree with me labelling the Phantom as "natural".

Just to explain why I personally consider the Phantom to be so natural. Although I will also happily admit that I tinker with the sound through tips, cables and sources, where (for instance) I prefer using Lionheart from the SE out of my AK70 to get a slightly brighter tone that accentuates violins and really helps those come through with great realism when I listen to (for example) Paganini's Concerto No.4.

 

[natemact]

I've own 3 pairs of harbeth speakers (still have 2 with me)
M series harbeth are neutral and great timbre, natural and accurate tone, home series (eg SHL5, C7) do sound warmer but not losing much the attributes of M series
While harbeth have a warm sound, none of them have the coloration of that i heard off a phantom..

I don't get the talk about naturalness of phantom. Easy sounding and warm, yes.

Yikes! We're ganging up on ya

That's cool, we all hear differently and I would agree with your description on Harbeth's house sound sig but then I wouldn't call either pairs of Phantoms I currently have colored, I know, gasp : ) On the warm side with thicker than average notes and slightly forgiving is how how I describe their color. Not saying you're wrong at all in your assessment, I bet your experience with Phantoms was a colored one. Might not have heard them at their best as well? What can be said about Phantoms is that relative to the average tuning of an iem, it's colored, but iems are not my benchmark.

It's funny because there is another well respected iem juggernaut on here that absolutely adores them. Just different ears with different tastes is what I rack it up to. I think it really comes down to what you're reference is for live sound. How do you like your concert hall experience to sound?

Phantom tuning is all about timbral accuracy, even compromising on outright resolution to do so as this always is a compromise. Unfortunately, you can't have the best of both. Not here, and not in 2ch, regardless of dollars spent. Even $10K cartridges still have to pick a side as the ones that don't don't do anything well enough to justify their exorbitant price.

Phantoms really seem to be contreversial iems! I find the discrepancies between folks opinions add quite a bit of color to discussions on tuning. I'm glad they are not everyone's fav : )