[Otto Motor]

Do you have a good idea if the imbalance on the Walker is fit related or not? How do you tell? Does the S8 consistently come out like that (with channels closer matched)?

Good questions. I'd say yes plus that the HFW A1 imbalance - if real - is probably not audible. I will do some repeat measurements. I only did a single measurement of the S8 to get the basic flavour - I am sure I can achieve a closer match. But that S8 graph was enough to turn me and my computer off for the day .

I am still in training - and produced a lot of crappy curves earlier today.

 

[Slater]

Makes sense as that's my experience with my ears as well. I feel that there's got to be good way to figure out if the fit is proper or not. When they are in my ear, and listening to sounds, I can determine proper fit or not, but I'm not so confident for rigs that do not get that feedback.

`That's why I prefer clear couplers. You can see when its' making a proper seal or not.

 

[Otto Motor]

`That's why I prefer clear couplers. You can see when its' making a proper seal or not.

I got my coupler from "XXXX" who resides on another forum. He is my neighbour.

 

[castleofargh]

Makes sense as that's my experience with my ears as well. I feel that there's got to be good way to figure out if the fit is proper or not. When they are in my ear, and listening to sounds, I can determine proper fit or not, but I'm not so confident for rigs that do not get that feedback.

if you're into pretty annoying stuff, you can just send noise, or a low freq tone through your speakers while looking at a RTA(in my case just ambient noise is sometimes enough for me to tell if the seal is horrible or not). you just move the IEM around and check the RTA for various positions until you can't find anything giving less low end. it doesn't ensure total seal, but it literally gives the best seal you could achieve.
the other solution is to massively cover the IEM with blu-tack or equivalent. takes care of the seal pretty well even if it might result in a slightly bigger volume for the "ear canal" if the tip's seal is really bad. but then again, it's not like I'm incredibly precise with insertion depth in the first place, so I say do whatever works. ^_^ I'm not a fan of crushing a Smurf around my IEM for measurements, but when asked to measure with a specific tip and that tip won't stay in place, it's that or a third hand to grab the IEM.

 

[csglinux]

Hi @Otto Motor - Nice job with all your measurements I'm just curious about something. Being camped-out on @crinacle's thread here, are you not planning to use his techniques of FFT-length pink noise + iPhone/iPad RTA with a nulled-out mic calibration file? In my experience, the technique he's developed works really well - results from my iPad for FR match absolutely perfectly with those from REW. I have nothing against REW - it's awesome software, I'm just wondering why you're using it. It's overkill if all you want is FR. It's so much faster to pull out an iPad than to assemble two suitcases worth of filtered power supplies, USB cables, phantom power adapters, sound cards, external DACs, laptops, etc., just to use REW.

 

[Otto Motor]

Hi @Otto Motor - Nice job with all your measurements I'm just curious about something. Being camped-out on @crinacle's thread here, are you not planning to use his techniques of FFT-length pink noise + iPhone/iPad RTA with a nulled-out mic calibration file? In my experience, the technique he's developed works really well - results from my iPad for FR match absolutely perfectly with those from REW. I have nothing against REW - it's awesome software, I'm just wondering why you're using it. It's overkill if all you want is FR. It's so much faster to pull out an iPad than to assemble two suitcases worth of filtered power supplies, USB cables, phantom power adapters, sound cards, external DACs, laptops, etc., just to use REW.

Hey hey hey, that's a lot of material.

I have not looked into Crinacle's techniques and may consider them in the future. Right now I am learning the basics.
I use REW because my neighbour has experience with it - and taught me how to use it. The reason why I don't use the iPad/iPhone software is that is is pricey and I can't fiddle with graph superposition - I find superposition important for comparisons.

 

[csglinux]

Hey hey hey, that's a lot of material.

I have not looked into Crinacle's techniques and may consider them in the future. Right now I am learning the basics.
I use REW because my neighbour has experience with it - and taught me how to use it. The reason why I don't use the iPad/iPhone software is that is is pricey and I can't fiddle with graph superposition - I find superposition important for comparisons.

Ok, got it. Yes, AudioTools for iOS isn't free, but it's super-quick to use and it can export ASCII files for use with any other (multi-plot) graphing tool, including REW.

 

[Otto Motor]

Ok, got it. Yes, AudioTools for iOS isn't free, but it's super-quick to use and it can export ASCII files for use with any other (multi-plot) graphing tool, including REW.

Well, the in-app purchases scared me as you never know how much else you have to pay for it.

 

[csglinux]

Well, the in-app purchases scared me as you never know how much else you have to pay for it.

But they all offer essential features:

 

[SilverEars]

I feel you... that pretty much mirrors my early experience with the miniDSP EARS and IEMs.

If tips are too large they'll warp as you cram them in, which means bye bye for the low end. Keep up the good spirit and eventually you'll get the hang of it!

I notice this with certain tips like Spin-fits, and if it's shallow insertion, I would hate Spinfits as it warps. If deep insertion, they work pretty well with smaller size (pretty small since it has to fit in the canal) than shallow insertion (large typically since the canal opening is wider). For deep insertions fits are rarely finicky.

I think the measurements for shallow insertion iems should be carefully looked at in comparison.

I think for shallow(er?) insertion iems can benefit from hybrid like ear-tips that keeps pressure on the silicone to adhere against the contour of the canal (or for the rig, the tube like thing). I think this is why Symbio ManderinE has been so popular. Perhaps, a hybrid tip such as the MaderinE can provide more assurance of fit.

 

[james444]

I notice this with certain tips like Spin-fits, and if it's shallow insertion, I would hate Spinfits as it warps. If deep insertion, they work pretty well with smaller size (pretty small since it has to fit in the canal) than shallow insertion (large typically since the canal opening is wider). For deep insertions fits are rarely finicky.

I think the measurements for shallow insertion iems should be carefully looked at in comparison.

I think for shallow(er?) insertion iems can benefit from hybrid like ear-tips that keeps pressure on the silicone to adhere against the contour of the canal (or for the rig, the tube like thing). I think this is why Symbio ManderinE has been so popular. Perhaps, a hybrid tip such as the MaderinE can provide more assurance of fit.

That's a downside with my miniDSP EARS and iEMs, I can't really measure shallow insertion. Most silicone tips will only seal when shoved far in, and to make things worse, the artificial canal itself is very short.

In a human ear canal, even with a deep 2nd bend seal (aka Ety-rape), you still have about half an inch left between nozzle exit and eardrum. There's just no way to emulate this with the EARS, as the depth I need to get a seal with most silicone tips only leaves maybe 2-4mm space between nozzle exit and eardrum.

 

[Piotr Michalak]

That's a downside with my miniDSP EARS and iEMs, I can't really measure shallow insertion. Most silicone tips will only seal when shoved far in, and to make things worse, the artificial canal itself is very short.

In a human ear canal, even with a deep 2nd bend seal (aka Ety-rape), you still have about half an inch left between nozzle exit and eardrum. There's just no way to emulate this with the EARS, as the depth I need to get a seal with most silicone tips only leaves maybe 2-4mm space between nozzle exit and eardrum.

Being a miniDSP EARS user recently myself and upgraded to an IEC-compliant system thanks to guidance by @csglinux I find that EARS are pretty much worthless when measuring IEMs, I'm afraid. I get completely different measurements. Maybe some of the character of the IEM is retained, yes, but the changes are so dramatic that I only currently use EARS as a donor of the silicone ear, which I unscrewed and place on my IEC coupler to measure also over-ear headphones.

 

[james444]

Being a miniDSP EARS user recently myself and upgraded to an IEC-compliant system thanks to guidance by @csglinux I find that EARS are pretty much worthless when measuring IEMs, I'm afraid. I get completely different measurements. Maybe some of the character of the IEM is retained, yes, but the changes are so dramatic that I only currently use EARS as a donor of the silicone ear, which I unscrewed and place on my IEC coupler to measure also over-ear headphones.

For my part, I wouldn't call it worthless for IEMs. I mainly use it to monitor how my mods affect the FR, and for that it's quite adequate. Also, I get fairly consistent results over time, just remeasured a unit after months and the result was pretty close to the original measurement.

I just think it's less than ideal for IEMs, and of course in no way comparable to an IEC-compliant system.

 

[castleofargh]

to me the biggest disappointment has been that the ear canal is way too short. and the concha area is too small, even Shure IEMs don't sit well in it, so the distance and orientation are BS when I measure IEMs with big shell. they provided a compensation for IEMs so of course they must have noticed that before releasing the product. there is really no excuse IMO. they should have sold it as headphone measurement rig only, or make a silicone ear that can actually fit IEMs.
I'm still mostly happy to have gotten one and if I had nothing else I would use it with IEMs anyway. at least to cover my own needs(check the impact of "mods", EQ, etc). it's not horrible, I was more disappointed by the Vibro Veritas that I purchase 100% for the calibration curve, just to notice after 15mn that the curve was buggy, both in the calibration, and in the way the numbers were presented in the file(with positive and negative values instead of shifting the "gain" to have them all on the same side for better compatibility with apps). things never got fixed, I never got a correct curve when it's the only thing I was paying for. and even then I still used the little crap a lot and find that the overall experience made the purchase worthwhile. I guess I'm just craving for experimentation so much that nothing can really make me completely discard a device ^_^.

 

[Otto Motor]

Day 2 of measuring: no duds produced...got the sealing under control. This imbalance in the upper midrange and treble of this earphone is not good.