[Goit]

I'm trying to decide between two headphones, one of them is more "colored".
Can someone give me some examples of what a "colored" sound is? The Glossary was too brief.

 

[FlavioWolff]

its like changing the recording's sound characterists to that of the headphone in question
put grados in example: they "color" every song with the "grado sound", its not a neutral sound that keeps the original recording sound untouched.

 

[Goit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlavioWolff /img/forum/go_quote.gif its like changing the recording's sound characterists to that of the headphone in question put grados in example: they "color" every song with the "grado sound", its not a neutral sound that keeps the original recording sound untouched.

I see, so it changes every recording to the SAME sound? So isn't that bad? Because not all types of music are suited to the headphone's sound? I thought it "emphasizes" the tone colors of the recording.

So "neutral" is not the same as "flat" and "dull" and "dry", more like "accurate"?

Because there are arguments that colored is fun, but wouldn't it only be "fun" for some music that is suited to the particular color and bad for music that doesn't go well with the color?

 

[Beagle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goit /img/forum/go_quote.gif So "neutral" is not the same as "flat" and "dull" and "dry", more like "accurate"? Because there are arguments that colored is fun, but wouldn't it only be "fun" for some music that is suited to the particular color and bad for music that doesn't go well with the color?

Think of colored sound as the audio equivalent of food seasoning. It can be good or bad, depending on how much you use, or how much exists.

 

[Goit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beagle /img/forum/go_quote.gif Think of colored sound as the audio equivalent of food seasoning. It can be good or bad, depending on how much you use, or how much exists.

But since you don't know what color is each model, you are taking the risk to try them right?

 

[nikongod]

To expand on the analogy of seasoning, you could also use the analogy of butter.

With toast, butter is great. With steak, What!
With poultry and fish butter can do excellent things too. Its not just a question of putting butter on meat.

Colorations are not necessarily a bad thing, but can be. Every one of the 4 or 6 "uncolored" and "reference flat" headphones people throw around as reference standards sounds different. How does that work? If they are uncolored and equally flat everything should sound the same!
Quote:

Originally Posted by FlavioWolff /img/forum/go_quote.gif its like changing the recording's sound characterists to that of the headphone in question put grados in example: they "color" every song with the "grado sound", its not a neutral sound that keeps the original recording sound untouched.

Well put but to be fair so do senheisers, akg, stax, audio-technicas (not a house sound, but each of their headphones is colored differently) beyerdynamic, and pretty much every transducer in existence.

It is also worth note that before the recording even left the studio it was probably changed SIGNIFICANTLY from what merged from the instruments by the recording engineers. This leads us to the question: are the effects of adjusting sound with drivers worse than the EQ that they apply before cutting the wax? I would say not at all.

All you can do is pick the color you like. I quite like grados, especially when paired with lower-end amps & sources but the best thing to do is listen to a few headphones the way you will actually use them for yourself.

 

[Goit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikongod /img/forum/go_quote.gif To expand on the analogy of seasoning, you could also use the analogy of butter. With toast, butter is great. With steak, What! With poultry and fish butter can do excellent things too. Its not just a question of putting butter on meat. Colorations are not necessarily a bad thing, but can be. Every one of the 4 or 6 "uncolored" and "reference flat" headphones people throw around as reference standards sounds different. How does that work? If they are uncolored and equally flat everything should sound the same! Well put but to be fair so do senheisers, akg, stax, audio-technicas (not a house sound, but each of their headphones is colored differently) beyerdynamic, and pretty much every transducer in existence. It is also worth note that before the recording even left the studio it was probably changed SIGNIFICANTLY from what merged from the instruments by the recording engineers. This leads us to the question: are the effects of adjusting sound with drivers worse than the EQ that they apply before cutting the wax? I would say not at all. All you can do is pick the color you like. I quite like grados, especially when paired with lower-end amps & sources but the best thing to do is listen to a few headphones the way you will actually use them for yourself.

But I can't listen to all the headphones, how can I know which will have what color?
I'm looking at the Denon D1000, Audio Technica ES7 and the Alessandro MS1 for classical music. Mostly period performances in small chambers that requires rich tone colors and a beautiful and "sweet" sound.

 

[ronnielee54]

Quote:

With toast, butter is great. With steak, What!

In my area, some of the finer steakhouses serve their steak with butter. Check out any Ruth's Chris or J. Gilberts in K.C. Butter goes great with a nice prime steak. It's harder than hell on the arteries.

Now about the cans. I own MS1's and previously owned the ES7's. Finally decided on keeping the MS1's over the ES7's. As much as I loved both of these cans, can't really see either of them being the ideal can for classical music. Don't know about the Denons. From what I have read you might be better off with Senn HD580's or maybe some AKG's (maybe a K601 or K701). I had the HD580's and if I remember correctly they were touted as a pretty good choice for the recording industry (specifically classical music). With those you would have to settle for used and if I remember right, you stated in another thread concerning ES7's that you wanted to buy new.

 

[Goit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronnielee54 /img/forum/go_quote.gif In my area, some of the finer steakhouses serve their steak with butter. Check out any Ruth's Chris or J. Gilberts in K.C. Butter goes great with a nice prime steak. It's harder than hell on the arteries. Now about the cans. I own MS1's and previously owned the ES7's. Finally decided on keeping the MS1's over the ES7's. As much as I loved both of these cans, can't really see either of them being the ideal can for classical music. Don't know about the Denons. From what I have read you might be better off with Senn HD580's or maybe some AKG's (maybe a K601 or K701). I had the HD580's and if I remember correctly they were touted as a pretty good choice for the recording industry (specifically classical music). With those you would have to settle for used and if I remember right, you stated in another thread concerning ES7's that you wanted to buy new.

Why are the MS1 and ES7 bad for classical? I just want one that isn't all harsh and sounds clear and pretty. I thought that the MS1 has "well rounded highs"?

 

[Uncle Erik]

If you like classical, look into the AKG K-501. It is one of the best there is for the genre.

As for the various flavors and colorations, don't worry that much about it. For an analogy, think about a street with an Italian, Mexican, Chinese, and a Thai restaurant on it. They're all good and you like all four of them. Will it matter all that much which one you eat it?

When you get to the "good" headphones, there is much to like about each one. One might be better suited to your music or tastes, but none of them are bad. I usually mix mine up every day or two, just to get different flavors.

 

[donunus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goit /img/forum/go_quote.gif I see, so it changes every recording to the SAME sound? So isn't that bad? Because not all types of music are suited to the headphone's sound? I thought it "emphasizes" the tone colors of the recording. So "neutral" is not the same as "flat" and "dull" and "dry", more like "accurate"? Because there are arguments that colored is fun, but wouldn't it only be "fun" for some music that is suited to the particular color and bad for music that doesn't go well with the color?

Also, be careful with the word "flat". When you say flat, it means lifeless and lacking in dynamics and realism that makes the music hard to enjoy. When you say that a speaker has a flat response, that is different. That means it measures flat and is uncolored or neutral.

Being uncolored and neutral (flat frequency response) is enjoyable for some and not to others. It is an objective term. Sounding "Flat" however is more subjective (based on objective attributes like dynamics, natural timbre, etc...) since one mans flat sounding headphone could be anothers musical can.

 

[ronnielee54]

I don't listen to a lot of classical, but was always under the impression that people that did were always going on about cans being neutral. Neither of these cans are neutral. They are great sounding, but they are not neutral. The best thing that I liked about both of these cans were the way they presented guitars. Stevie Ray Vaughn was awsome sounding on the ES7's and the MS1's. There is a thread going on right now about a shootout for cans with classical music. See what they are recommending. You will never get very good advice from a rocker or blueshound concerning classical or chamber music.

 

[Goit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you like classical, look into the AKG K-501. It is one of the best there is for the genre. As for the various flavors and colorations, don't worry that much about it. For an analogy, think about a street with an Italian, Mexican, Chinese, and a Thai restaurant on it. They're all good and you like all four of them. Will it matter all that much which one you eat it? When you get to the "good" headphones, there is much to like about each one. One might be better suited to your music or tastes, but none of them are bad. I usually mix mine up every day or two, just to get different flavors.

the k501 is discontinued. I need to get ones that are still for retail.

Quote:

I don't listen to a lot of classical, but was always under the impression that people that did were always going on about cans being neutral.

Really? I'll take that into consideration.

I use a pair of 15 dollar plantronics now, and I like the sound. It's delicate, gentle, and sweet. Does plantronics have a "house color" that I can use to match these more expensive brands?

 

[ronnielee54]

Listen to Uncle Erik, he speaks the truth. Most of us switch things up. It keeps it fresh.

 

[Goit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronnielee54 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Listen to Uncle Erik, he speaks the truth. Most of us switch things up. It keeps it fresh.

Yes, but the k501 is discontinued, and there is no way to get it.