Chord Hugo
Jan 2, 2015 at 9:02 PM Post #9,181 of 15,694
   
After all the playing around I've done and everything Rob Watts has posted, I think the issue is noise coming through the USB connection and not jitter. I was using the AP1, which really only is great with the Pure Power, because it was the proverbial "icing on the cake" sound-wise compared to direct USB. I'm willing to bet this was purely because of noise isolation. I was very happy listening last night with the Bus Power Pro/Emilai isolator set-up. I'm going to give more of a listen and see if I feel the same way and see if I can't compare it to the optical input. 

Good to know it actually does work and is a worthy viable route later on with the Ap1 but caveat being needing the Pure power also to achieve this. My wallet feels hot again!
 How much is the Bus Power Pro/Emilai isolator set up come to?  Optical I've heard can be better also to coax with the Hugo but guess this depends or varies to source been used...
 
Jan 2, 2015 at 9:21 PM Post #9,182 of 15,694
  I guess the TT would be the next big thing... I believe bulky sized audio components will be replaced by powerful small-size gadgets in the near future.

 
Dumb question: What's the «TT»? 
blink.gif

 
Jan 2, 2015 at 9:30 PM Post #9,183 of 15,694
I guess the TT would be the next big thing... I believe bulky sized audio components will be replaced by powerful small-size gadgets in the near future.




Let's see. IMHO at the very top end of dacs I do not see chord. We have the DCS stack, EMM labs, MsB, Berkeley reference, Nagra HD, and the Trinity. In the middle is where changes and competition are very intense so it comes down to price, size and performance.
 
Jan 2, 2015 at 9:45 PM Post #9,185 of 15,694
  Good to know it actually does work and is a worthy viable route later on with the Ap1 but caveat being needing the Pure power also to achieve this. My wallet feels hot again!
 How much is the Bus Power Pro/Emilai isolator set up come to?  Optical I've heard can be better also to coax with the Hugo but guess this depends or varies to source been used...


Just to give another point of view, I'm running the AP2--without--Pure Power. My bottom line cost kept getting pushed up, but I drew the line, in terms of form factor, at having to plug in a wall wart. I did all my A/B testing using noisy USB power, and the Audiophilleo still came out ahead of optical (as well as USB direct). All deference to Rob Watts, I think jitter must be involved because the sonic image is more blurred/confused over optical, even though its electro-mechanically decoupled from the laptop. The AP2, even without external power, produces a more accurate, larger, and clearer presentation of the sound stage. Both AP2/coax and optical are smoother (less grainy) than USB direct, but the AP2+SR cable ➔ coax w/o PP is more coherent than optical. 
 
Ahhh, why is it never simple.... 
 
Jan 2, 2015 at 10:43 PM Post #9,186 of 15,694
 
   
After all the playing around I've done and everything Rob Watts has posted, I think the issue is noise coming through the USB connection and not jitter. I was using the AP1, which really only is great with the Pure Power, because it was the proverbial "icing on the cake" sound-wise compared to direct USB. I'm willing to bet this was purely because of noise isolation. I was very happy listening last night with the Bus Power Pro/Emilai isolator set-up. I'm going to give more of a listen and see if I feel the same way and see if I can't compare it to the optical input. 

Good to know it actually does work and is a worthy viable route later on with the Ap1 but caveat being needing the Pure power also to achieve this. My wallet feels hot again!
 How much is the Bus Power Pro/Emilai isolator set up come to?  Optical I've heard can be better also to coax with the Hugo but guess this depends or varies to source been used...

 
I don't know if that isolator is available anywhere else as I found it in an issue of a magazine yesterday. I'm also not sure if the Bus Power Pro has any isolation on the USB data lines (I'd have to check). I'm guessing the Schiit Wyrd and other USB power solutions would have a similar effect.  My feeling is that I'm getting the same effect that I did with the AP1/PP without the cost of the AP1/PP (which I already had prior to owning the Hugo). I'm listening to classical music at the moment and the violins sound right
 
I think the Audiophilleo units are best with DACs that don't have a USB input or only a poor one, but otherwise have potential to sound excellent. Some vintage DACs sound awful when only their Toslink inputs are used or the transport is otherwise poor and are transformed by the AP. When I read comments about some-or-other excellent CD transport sounding better with the Hugo than using a computer with USB this makes sense to me. Lacking the necessary equipment to nail down what is going on we end up figuring these things out by trial and error.
 
Jan 3, 2015 at 2:22 AM Post #9,187 of 15,694
  I've expressed several times that the Hugo and the HD800's is a great combo. I don't feel the need for an additional amp. Whenever I put something between the Hugo and the HD800 I tend to loose more than I gain. There is plenty of clean volume available with this combo. Would a more powerful amp give a touch more bass slam? Probably, but I believe you'd probably be making some trade offs to get there. I also have more bass-head phones ready for those times. 
If anybody wants to loan me a DVD 600 or 800 I'd be happy to give an opinion. I promise I'll return it - when I'm done.

 
hi m8, i have the Hugo and the hdvd800.If you've only got the money for 1 item then get the Hugo 1st and then when you have the money get the senn 600 amp.The Hugo and hd800 sound great together and i think most people would be happy with it.If You then want 2 take it 2 next level get the senn 600 amp with senns balance cable for the hd800s.If you live in England I'd be happy 4 you 2 come round and listen 4 yourself.

 
Curious about amp discussions.
 
I have used the Hugo as a standalone portable solution, pairing with a mbp/ipad air/GS5, delivering analogue signals and driving headphones such as the HD800, SRH940, COP, ATHM50. 
 
Not felt that the Hugo was not delivering enough power to these headphones.  At max, I have only cranked it up to 'blue' thereabouts.
 
In the case of IEMs (TG111, Rox, SE846, eQ7), never had to venture past ‘yellow’.
 
It has been said that the ‘ideal' amp should be nothing more than a ‘straight wire with gain’… as in ‘invisible' or ‘transparent'… just amplify the signals. So, ideally, a great headphone amp should let you hear the analogue signals from the Hugo as ‘cleanly’ as possible on your headphones/IEMs.
 
So, unless one needs more power to drive less efficient headphones, what other benefits would/should an amp bring to a Hugo >> headphone/IEM listening experience?
 
Cheers. 
 

 
Jan 3, 2015 at 2:53 AM Post #9,188 of 15,694
For USB noise filter ES-OT4 (isolator) found in the ステレオ2015年1月号 / January 2015 issue of Stereo magazine, maybe do a search on either ISBN 054410115 or 4910054410150 since both Amazon.co.jp as well as HMV.co.jp should ship internationally
 
54a79ce240894.jpg

 

 
Emilai USB noise filter ES-OT4
$25 (3,000 yen)
 
Aurorasound BusPower-Pro
$83 (10,000 yen)
 
RATOC Audio Lab RAL-EXTPW01
$166 (20,000 yen)
 
54a79bdcaff18.jpg

 
RATOC Audio Lab RAL-PS0514
$350 (42,800 yen)
 
54a79be1221a7.jpg

 

 
A few owners of Hugo like Clemmaster tried Adnaco-SU1 and that turned out to be great for filtering noise from USB ports as well, the source must have USB 3.0 port since 2.0 ones won't work at all.
 
Currently I'm looking forward to Uptone Audio Regen since that's quite affordable to begin with
 
54a79ea1dcc6e.png
 
 
Jan 3, 2015 at 3:11 AM Post #9,189 of 15,694
   
 
Curious about amp discussions.
 
I have used the Hugo as a standalone portable solution, pairing with a mbp/ipad air/GS5, delivering analogue signals and driving headphones such as the HD800, SRH940, COP, ATHM50. 
 
Not felt that the Hugo was not delivering enough power to these headphones.  At max, I have only cranked it up to 'blue' thereabouts.
 
In the case of IEMs (TG111, Rox, SE846, eQ7), never had to venture past ‘yellow’.
 
It has been said that the ‘ideal' amp should be nothing more than a ‘straight wire with gain’… as in ‘invisible' or ‘transparent'… just amplify the signals. So, ideally, a great headphone amp should let you hear the analogue signals from the Hugo as ‘cleanly’ as possible on your headphones/IEMs.
 
So, unless one needs more power to drive less efficient headphones, what other benefits would/should an amp bring to a Hugo >> headphone/IEM listening experience?
 
Cheers. 
 

I've always liked the 'straight wire and gain' quote. Is that Stereophile? 
Unfortunately audio seems to be a very big game of second guessing. What did it sound like in the control room? What did the artist/producer hear when they approved the final mix/master? Most of us will never know. I hear that at Colombia Records in NYC they have several rooms for artists to listen to playback. They even have a car interior with a dashboard radio and a huge sound system so you can compare. I've been told that many hiphop records are approved in 'the car'! 
I'll admit that I often choose the TH900 over the HD800 and the Roxanne over the UERM, especially for rock. I really suspect that a lot of recordings I listen to are approved with a lot more bass in the in the playback chain than is technically correct. When you go to a Rolling Stones concert you certainly hear a ton more bass than you'll ever hear from their records on a perfectly neutral system. Is that the artist's intention?
With the HD800 and Hugo combo I sometimes feel like the bass gets a little lost in the mix. I don't know enough about impedance and such to know if there's a technical mismatch. But it's not exactly what I would call a 'party' sound. 
But with classical music, or when I'm trying to hear exactly what was played, I love the HD800 from the Hugo. Did the guitarist slide his fingers on the fretboard or bend the note? The Hugo/HD800 will tell you like almost no other combo. Fingerpicking or flat picking? Pause it up and get out the HD800. No need to find it on youtube. Your can trust your ears. 
I'm sure this completely flat combo is somebody's end game. I could live with nothing but the Hugo/HD800 for all of my listening. I could. But honestly I'm also glad that I have choices. And I don't consider the TH900 or Roxanne a big step down in quality.
A side note: I've gotten to the point with these high resolution source files on these high end electronics and transducers that I really hate EQ. I keep it off in the AK120, as it absolutely adds a layer of grit to the digital and analog outputs. And I don't like it anymore in my computer playback software either, because it similarly grunges up the sound. Witch leaves me needing a couple of different headphones to bring my whole music collection alive. 
I totally agree that I never turn the Hugo up to the point of distortion with the HD800. It's very loud and very clean. And it's not like there's NO bass. 
I bought the Hugo and I haven't felt I needed a Sennheiser amp. But if somebody wants to loan me one I'd be happy to give it a listen!
HTH...
 
Jan 3, 2015 at 5:03 AM Post #9,190 of 15,694
 
  I've always liked the 'straight wire and gain' quote. Is that Stereophile? 

 
Truthfully, I cannot remember where first read it. But it is an interesting concept, no?
 
With the HD800 and Hugo combo I sometimes feel like the bass gets a little lost in the mix. I don't know enough about impedance and such to know if there's a technical mismatch. But it's not exactly what I would call a 'party' sound.

 
Yes, I have wondered about that too. Not sure if this is because the Hugo + HD800 sound is too ‘clean’ (too close to neutral?) for certain recordings, usually pop/jazz/rock/rap. That said, with well-recorded classical/jazz/folk/vocal music, don’t feel that I am missing out on anything 'down there'. In fact, one often hears/discovers more low note instrumental detail. 
 
Maybe, the Hugo + HD800 combination emphasises less on bass presence and more on lower register instrument details. Meaning: you don’t get bass where there is none... and the low notes are delivered in such a timely/distinct/accurate manner that one perceives less weight. 
 
Perhaps, 'neutral' is not what one prefers when listening to pop/jazz/rock/rap. Arguably, some artistes/bands are not meant to be listened to in an analytical set-up.
  When you go to a Rolling Stones concert you certainly hear a ton more bass than you'll ever hear from their records on a perfectly neutral system. Is that the artist's intention?
 

 
TBH, I think a 'perfectly neutral hi-fi system' is a unicorn. 
Three questions: Perfect compared to what? In which kind of listening environment? What source/material/file?
 
To date, I have yet to have the good fortune of listening to a consumer hi-fi system that can truly reproduce the sound of a live acoustic performance - chamber music, jazz band gig, let alone an orchestra going full crescendo in a concert hall environment. For sure, some sophisticated systems come close to the real thing, and I am sure there are others out there that get even closer.
 
But, is there a real unicorn out there? Maybe, who knows. 
 
Anyway, getting back on point:
 
I am just curious what more an amp serves up at a table, insofar as a Hugo + headphone experience is concerned, if one's headphones are not power-hungry.
 
That said, how does one set relatively accurate equal amp gain for headphone listening? Is there an app or a programme?
 
Why? A few dB of gain can go a long way in determining subjective preferences. One is more likely to prefer a louder sounding amp.
 
beerchug.gif
 and Happy New Year. 
 
Jan 3, 2015 at 7:38 AM Post #9,191 of 15,694
Let's see. IMHO at the very top end of dacs I do not see chord. We have the DCS stack, EMM labs, MsB, Berkeley reference, Nagra HD, and the crazy German one whose name now eludes me. In the middle is where changes and competition are very intense so it comes down to price, size and performance.

I think you've made some points. The high-end gear will remain bulky but have better performance, then the rest of the compitition will come down to size, fetures ect..
 
Jan 3, 2015 at 1:09 PM Post #9,193 of 15,694
  i am sorry to ask this out of blue, but i was planning to buy a chord hugo... how does it perform on battery?.
 
As i understadnd, i can use it as a DAC, so it will draw power from the usb, and is much plug and play?... how fast does the baterry destroy itself?..


It doesn't draw power from the usb, but used as a usb DAC you can safely leave it connected to the charger, so battery life becomes irrelevant.
I've not done any tests as such, but paired with my X5 as a portable device I would say you get a good 6-7 hours from the battery.  That is using fairly power hungry headphones. If you use highly efficient IEMs, I am sure it will last longer.
An advantage is that you don't need to worry about the X5 battery as without it's DAC and amp in use it draws very little and lasts for ages.
 
Jan 3, 2015 at 1:13 PM Post #9,194 of 15,694
I considered that it should save my x5, but i want to fiind a solution to hugo too, if i buy it, i don't really want to kill it so fast. as i understand the battery in it is not very good, and it tends to drain fast, and life is not long if i do a lot of cycles with it.
Another thought, it does have an over-charge protection?.. so i can leave it in charging at all times, if i don't take it with me?
 
Jan 3, 2015 at 1:35 PM Post #9,195 of 15,694
  I considered that it should save my x5, but i want to fiind a solution to hugo too, if i buy it, i don't really want to kill it so fast. as i understand the battery in it is not very good, and it tends to drain fast, and life is not long if i do a lot of cycles with it.
Another thought, it does have an over-charge protection?.. so i can leave it in charging at all times, if i don't take it with me?


I don't know where you got that information from, but even if you accept it as read, it is a standard battery and should be very easy to replace if and when required.
The battery protection is very thorough and you can safely leave the charger attached, whether in use or not.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top