Chord Electronics - Hugo 2 - The Official Thread
Oct 30, 2020 at 9:32 AM Post #19,156 of 22,475
Except that it isn't. The output stage of Qutest and Hugo 2 are the same.

So why do I say Qutest is better suited to a speaker rig. It's simple. The Hugo 2 gives you amazing sound from headphones for £1800. Qutest is £1200 and you will need to spend at least that again, probably more, to get a headphone amp good enough to beat the sound that comes out of Hugo 2. Of course if you want the colourations and distortions added by a valve amp or you want an amp with EQ or other features or need extreme amounts of power for poorly designed headphones, then Qutest is the way to go.
Your assumption around needing a headphone amp has a flaw, any speaker set up also requires an amplifier. Thus the same color or distortion from a tube amp would apply. I do not doubt the Hugo 2 to be a great amp pairing with many headphones, hell my Mojo is great with many headphones. I have a nice tube amp coming and seek to pair it with a more capable DAC than what my Mojo currently offers, I would like to stay within the Chord line with either the Qutest or Hugo 2.
 
Oct 30, 2020 at 1:06 PM Post #19,157 of 22,475
Hi, I was wondering if you would mind elaborating on the reasons the Qutest is suited for a speaker system vs. used with a headphone amp+headphones? I ask as reading through this thread, connecting the Hugo 2 to another headphone amp in line-out mode, such as nice tube amp, it is essentially double amping. To avoid double amping the Qutest seems to be more appropriate?
Thanks in advance.
As has already been said, you can't bypass the Hugo₂'s headphone «amp», since it is identical to its line-out stage. Which in fact is also an amp in the wider sense, but one that is present in every DAC, even those without a headphone output. This combined function is its great strength, as it enables to connect headphones directly with the DAC – so to speak –, without an extra gain stage, thus sacrificing as little transparency and accuracy as possible. The term «double amping» is justified nonetheless, since you'd add a useless amplification stage. Although you could just as well renounce it. Either way, adding a headphone amp technically only makes sense if you want to use extremely insensitive headphones.

With the Qutest you have no choice. It's not just that it doesn't have the (lossless) digital volume control, its otput stage also isn't suitable for driving headphones (initially I wrongly thought it was identical to the Hugo₂'s), otherwise it would have left the possibility to regulate the volume via software beforehand, although not losslessly.

Your assumption around needing a headphone amp has a flaw, any speaker set up also requires an amplifier. Thus the same color or distortion from a tube amp would apply. I do not doubt the Hugo 2 to be a great amp pairing with many headphones, hell my Mojo is great with many headphones. I have a nice tube amp coming and seek to pair it with a more capable DAC than what my Mojo currently offers, I would like to stay within the Chord line with either the Qutest or Hugo 2.
Pairing the Hugo₂ with an external headphone amplifier does in no way affect the sound quality any more than with any other DAC. And the difference to DACs with integrated headphone amp is just that you don't bypass an allegedly inferior amp and replace it with a better one, instead you amplify the signal a second time: the original «inferior» headphone amp is still in the signal path.

So using a tube amp with the Hugo₂ will probably offer you what you expect from it: a sound that's spiced up, richer and warmer than the direct connection. I understand that not everyone is as interested in preserved transparency as I am, but adding an amp to a DAC with the best integrated headphone amp you can get – a wire without gain – is a strategy with an extremely poor price/performance ratio. $1000, $2000, $3000 for a one-trick effect device. You'd be better off with one of the various (tube-)amp emulator programs, some of them are even free, and all of them offer the possibility to adjust various parameters. They would still offer the main function of such an approach: masking the tonal flaws within a system, mainly from the sound transducers.

Well, you could do even better – if you want to maximize transparency and accuracy (high fidelity) as well as listening pleasure, use a good software equalizer and linearize your headphones! It would make any masking effects obsolete, so you could enjoy the music in its full detail and transparency. You can still adjust the tonal balance to your individual HRTF and to your personal sonic ideal – without sacrificing transparency. Note that a perfect linearization of the over-all amplitude response also results in a perfect impulse response, which clearly pays off.

The above is also dedicated to my friend Hooster. :wink:

As good as the Qutest is as a DAC, especially considering its price, in my book it is the least attractive offering within the Chord lineup:

No (lossless) digital volume regulation: You need an integrated amp for a speaker system. Or, if you're lucky, you have a power amp with volume control. Otherwise you have to buy a preamp. To achieve (almost) the same signal integrity as from the Hugo₂ with a preamp, you'd have to invest $875,000.

No crossfeed: which prevents it from offering optimal results with speaker-based recordings through headphones.

No headphone output: You need a separate headphone amp. To achieve (almost) the same signal integrity as from the Hugo₂ you would again have to invest $985,000.
 
Oct 30, 2020 at 1:19 PM Post #19,158 of 22,475
As has already been said, you can't bypass the Hugo₂'s headphone «amp», since it is identical to its line-out stage. Which in fact is also an amp in the wider sense, but one that is present in every DAC, even those without a headphone output. This combined function is its great strength, as it enables to connect headphones directly with the DAC – so to speak –, without an extra gain stage, thus sacrificing as little transparency and accuracy as possible. The term «double amping» is justified nonetheless, since you'd add a useless amplification stage. Although you could just as well renounce it. Either way, adding a headphone amp technically only makes sense if you want to use extremely insensitive headphones.

With the Qutest you have no choice. It's not just that it doesn't have the (lossless) digital volume control, its otput stage also isn't suitable for driving headphones (initially I wrongly thought it was identical to the Hugo₂'s), otherwise it would have left the possibility to regulate the volume via software beforehand, although not losslessly.


Pairing the Hugo₂ with an external headphone amplifier does in no way affect the sound quality any more than with any other DAC. And the difference to DACs with integrated headphone amp is just that you don't bypass an allegedly inferior amp and replace it with a better one, instead you amplify the signal a second time: the original «inferior» headphone amp is still in the signal path.

So using a tube amp with the Hugo₂ will probably offer you what you expect from it: a sound that's spiced up, richer and warmer than the direct connection. I understand that not everyone is as interested in preserved transparency as I am, but adding an amp to a DAC with the best integrated headphone amp you can get – a wire without gain – is a strategy with an extremely poor price/performance ratio. $1000, $2000, $3000 for a one-trick effect device. You'd be better off with one of the various (tube-)amp emulator programs, some of them are even free, and all of them offer the possibility to adjust various parameters. They would still offer the main function of such an approach: masking the tonal flaws within a system, mainly from the sound transducers.

Well, you could do even better – if you want to maximize transparency and accuracy (high fidelity) as well as listening pleasure, use a good software equalizer and linearize your headphones! It would make any masking effects obsolete, so you could enjoy the music in its full detail and transparency. You can still adjust the tonal balance to your individual HRTF and to your personal sonic ideal – without sacrificing transparency. Note that a perfect linearization of the over-all amplitude response also results in a perfect impulse response, which clearly pays off.

The above is also dedicated to my friend Hooster. :wink:

As good as the Qutest is as a DAC, especially considering its price, in my book it is the least attractive offering within the Chord lineup:

No (lossless) digital volume regulation: You need an integrated amp for a speaker system. Or, if you're lucky, you have a power amp with volume control. Otherwise you have to buy a preamp. To achieve (almost) the same signal integrity as from the Hugo₂ with a preamp, you'd have to invest $875,000.

No crossfeed: which prevents it from offering optimal results with speaker-based recordings through headphones.

No headphone output: You need a separate headphone amp. To achieve (almost) the same signal integrity as from the Hugo₂ you would again have to invest $985,000.
Great post. So much to unpack here.
 
Oct 30, 2020 at 2:36 PM Post #19,160 of 22,475
Yes, don't fear experimentation! An important concern of mine within above post – which is sort of the result of my own experimentations.
 
Oct 30, 2020 at 3:59 PM Post #19,162 of 22,475
Your assumption around needing a headphone amp has a flaw, any speaker set up also requires an amplifier. Thus the same color or distortion from a tube amp would apply. I do not doubt the Hugo 2 to be a great amp pairing with many headphones, hell my Mojo is great with many headphones. I have a nice tube amp coming and seek to pair it with a more capable DAC than what my Mojo currently offers, I would like to stay within the Chord line with either the Qutest or Hugo 2.
If you want to drive speakers, then an important criterion is how loud you like to listen.

I can direct drive floorstanding speakers, using my Hugo 2, at a volume that I enjoy.
However I realise that most owners would want to listen at a louder volume, and for that the Hugo 2 would need an amplifier.

If you already have a nice tube amp (with volume control?) coming, then my opinion would be to get the Qutest instead of the Hugo 2.
As Rob points out, the Qutest was primarily designed for speakers.
 
Oct 30, 2020 at 8:51 PM Post #19,163 of 22,475
you do lose a tiny bit of detail going frmo a Hugo 2 to an amp

Is this specifically in the lower end? Or all around? I've only experience what you've described with THX feedforward amplifiers.

And you don't have detail loss when using Qutest?

If the described detail loss mostly pertains to the lower frequencies, I imagine it has to do with the amp stage in the Hugo 2, which is omitted from the Qutest. I've experience significantly more immersive sub bass response on the Qutest compared to the Hugo 2 (through an amplifier, of course).
 
Oct 31, 2020 at 2:14 PM Post #19,164 of 22,475
I am curious if anyone has any thoughts on the following cage fight: Chord Hugo 2 (functioning as both DAC and Amp) VS Qutest with the GS-X Mini.

I would be driving either the Verite Closed and/or the Stellia. Thoughts on the various combos of the above equipment would be very helpful.

I’m weighing different home/office/portable options.

Thoughts? Thanks for your help!

Rich
Well, if you really want to find out, @gearocdguy is selling an almost-new rig:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-headamp-gs-x-mini-chord-qutest.946031
 
Oct 31, 2020 at 2:23 PM Post #19,165 of 22,475
I’m currently rocking a Mojo and Poly, cans are Focal Elegia’s and Quad Era-1’s.

I pretty much exclusively listen at my desk, at home and i’m getting an itch to upgrade. Finding myself checking out H2’s n eBay.

Have been A/Bing the Mojo and DF Red and to be honest, I don’t think I could tell them apart if I did a blind test.

I’m thinking of moving the Mojo Poly combo on and picking up a H2. I can use the DF Red for when I’m about and H2 when I’m home.

I know it is high end in comparison to the Mojo, but it is worth the upgrade? Will the H2 knock my socks off when coming from the Mojo?
I have a mojo and DF red. The mojo is a lot warmer with a slightly bigger sound stage than the red to me when both are connected usb dongle to my laptop or iPhone. However when I connect it to my blue sound streamer, it’s night and day difference between the mojo and DF Red which is why I picked up a poly that I haven’t yet received. How are you using the poly?
 
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Nov 5, 2020 at 3:48 PM Post #19,166 of 22,475
I have started using my Hugo 2 after a long wait and I noticed something about the volume wheel/marble I'd like to ask about:

The marble looks perfectly positioned, centered when viewed from above, but when sitting at my desk and viewing the marble from an angle, one side has no gap, while the other side has a visible 1.5 mm or so gap between it and the edge of the case. See 12:41 here - . Do you see that slight gap on the top side of the volume marble? Mine is about twice as big and I can see inside. I am worried dust will gradually go in.

Is this normal? Are there variations between units and some just happen to be this way?
 
Nov 5, 2020 at 4:29 PM Post #19,167 of 22,475
I have started using my Hugo 2 after a long wait and I noticed something about the volume wheel/marble I'd like to ask about:

The marble looks perfectly positioned, centered when viewed from above, but when sitting at my desk and viewing the marble from an angle, one side has no gap, while the other side has a visible 1.5 mm or so gap between it and the edge of the case. See 12:41 here - . Do you see that slight gap on the top side of the volume marble? Mine is about twice as big and I can see inside. I am worried dust will gradually go in.

Is this normal? Are there variations between units and some just happen to be this way?


Mine has this. Has always bugged me. I can't believe Chord let it go like this. I see dust on my circular window at the center, and no doubt dust has gotten in this way. The volume ball gap is a pretty big oversight.
 
Nov 5, 2020 at 4:37 PM Post #19,168 of 22,475
Mine has this. Has always bugged me. I can't believe Chord let it go like this. I see dust on my circular window at the center, and no doubt dust has gotten in this way. The volume ball gap is a pretty big oversight.

Thanks for the answer. Yes, pretty sad to see this considering the price and overall expected premium experience.
 
Nov 5, 2020 at 5:18 PM Post #19,170 of 22,475
I have started using my Hugo 2 after a long wait and I noticed something about the volume wheel/marble I'd like to ask about:

The marble looks perfectly positioned, centered when viewed from above, but when sitting at my desk and viewing the marble from an angle, one side has no gap, while the other side has a visible 1.5 mm or so gap between it and the edge of the case. See 12:41 here - . Do you see that slight gap on the top side of the volume marble? Mine is about twice as big and I can see inside. I am worried dust will gradually go in.

Is this normal? Are there variations between units and some just happen to be this way?

The volume wheel is attached to the board like this
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cho...fficial-thread.831345/page-1255#post-15772077

We basically have no choice but to baby it.
 

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