[JaZZ]

Hello again Jazz, sorry, but I can't do that for you, its a copy-righted promo disc I got directly from the SSO, a disc which I am not allowed to send anyone digital copies of like that.
But I can recommend that you buy it, or for that matter, their recording of Rach's 1st symphony which is an even better recording than the SACD BIS 1712 of the 2nd symphony. BIS1712 is a native 24/44.1 recording and the 1st which I can't remember the disc number of now, I only have it as download, is a native 24/96 recording.
And yes as expected 24/96 sounds better than 24/44.1 in this case.
More effortless and more realistic via my Mscaler.
Both are available for download as native hi res files from e.Classical.com
But I only used the 16/44.1 layer of the SACD disc they had just given me during some of those early DAVE/ BLU2 /HMS tests.

Actually I'm already fully served with Rachmaninov Symphonies and Piano Concertos (also in 24/96), but out of interest I would buy the track with the critical «clipping» if you can safely name me the matching recording and format (including the exact position). I'm registered at eClassical.

Just from a technical perspective: From what I get -25 dB is already extremely loud with the Utopia (as is -e.g. 7 dB with the HE1000 or the HD 800), and with such a setting clipping is simply impossible for the DAVE, regardless of dynamic peaks (which won't exceed the selected volume level).

 

[number1sixerfan]

I have both the Susvaras and the TC's and it's definitely not a myth. However, I haven't used them directly out of the Dave since the first week of owning it. I'll try to revisit tonight and share some thoughts.

Can confirm again, the Susvaras are flat out not listenable via the Dave alone imo. They just do not sound good out of the headphone out. The TCs I think you could squeak by if you absolutely desired to, but it's much fuller and with it's normal bottom end with the added power of a good external amp. I definitely wouldn't spend that kind of money on a headphone while not getting the most out of them, but that's just me. But it's pretty simple to me, either don't use those headphones or add an amp.. shouldn't really be this much controversy on the topic lol

Unless you've heard and specifically love those headphones i'm not sure why they're a priority for you. There's always a new flavor of the month. A lot of new reviews put the Final Audio D8k Pro at least at the same level and those are easy to drive for example. Doesn't matter if they don't do it for u though. I'm thinking of giving them a try when i do go with open backs.
If you're really bent on them you can just get a dedicated amp and be done with it.

I think the bigger question for me would be why spend top dollar for a high end DAC while limiting the ability to listen to some* TOTL headphones. Susvara and TCs are quite a bit better than anything else out there that I've heard. But I do agree that a dedicated amp is a very simple solution with really good results (and it doesn't have to be some $5k+ amp either)

But even on its own I sometimes preferred Dave with a separate headphone amp with several headphones and complex demanding large scale symphonic material.

I agree with this as well. I like the Utopia from the Dave a lot, but prefer it with the Woo added slightly. Same for the Verite Closed as well. In either case, the sound is truly amazing.. and if I didn't have the TC/Susvara, I would be fine without an additional amp long term.

 

[flyte3333]

AMD buying Xilinx for $35 billion - that doesn't make any kind of financial sense. Xilinx annual revenues are only $3 billion...

Forecast is for that annual revenue to jump up?

Based on future things only those within Xilinx may know?

 

[Christer]

Actually I'm already fully served with Rachmaninov Symphonies and Piano Concertos (also in 24/96), but out of interest I would buy the track with the critical «clipping» if you can safely name me the matching recording and format (including the exact position). I'm registered at eClassical.

Just from a technical perspective: From what I get -25 dB is already extremely loud with the Utopia (as is -e.g. 7 dB with the HE1000 or the HD 800), and with such a setting clipping is simply impossible for the DAVE, regardless of dynamic peaks (which won't exceed the selected volume level).

Hello Jazz, after re-reading my own posts on this subject I have a very embarrassing admisson to make this morning!
I should have refrained from mentioning Utopia in my posts at all, and only used Susvara as an example in my take on Dave's Achilles heel and I would have been on much safer ground than from resorting to by now quite misty memories instead of facts.

I now realize that by doing so I've painted myself in a corner I have great difficulty getting out from without losing all honour and credibility.

I could of course easily have hired a hit man to have you decapitated to solve the honour problem.

But then my conscience kicked in!
Yes I do in fact have a conscience,although quite a spacious one ,but still a conscience so in the end, I decided against that line of action.

Instead I now choose to admit that you are arguing with logic and facts all the way,and I got a bit carried away and added things to the discussion I should not have added.
Mea culpa!
My last straw of trying to "save face" would be to blame my "very temporary" lack of logic and actual provable facts, on the actual fact that I was under the influence of intoxicating liquids when I wrote my posts.
I went to town yesterday and bought some extra strong German Oktoberfest Bier.

Cheers CC

 

[adrianm]

I think the bigger question for me would be why spend top dollar for a high end DAC

Well the answer is in the question, Dave is first and foremost a dac. As far as other high(er?) end dacs, there is just Bartok afaik with an integrated headphone amp and it's listed as having the same power as Dave.
I guess if you have a headphone collection an amp is a a must-have, i personally don't really see the point, i'd rather stick to one pair per use case.

 

[DaveRedRef-III]

AMD buying Xilinx for $35 billion - that doesn't make any kind of financial sense. Xilinx annual revenues are only $3 billion...

I totally agree with you Rob. - (Xilinx - Crazy valuation!)

AMD had a problem though, to offer a 'realistic' price they would have needed to offer below the prevailing share price of the company. As it was, their offer was still only 25% above market price. Such is the madness of current stock market valuations particularly regarding 'tech stocks'. We are in the midst of a global Pandemic with unemployment due to sky-rocket to levels not seen for many decades and yet the S&P500 is still valued at 31 times 10yr average earnings (PE10 Schiller calculation). To put that in perspective its still riding the 2nd highest peak in the last 150 years. The only time that metric was higher was during the Dot.com bubble and we know what happened to that. Pension funds are going to get wiped-out imo. .........as you can imagine I am a hoot at parties!

S&P500 Price earnings ratio is based on average inflation-adjusted earnings from the previous 10 years, known as the Cyclically Adjusted PE Ratio (CAPE Ratio), Shiller PE Ratio, or PE 10


EDIT: 13:07 - I could be wrong of course. Nothing would surprise me in this market!
https://www.multpl.com/shiller-pe

 

[DaveRedRef-III]

Back on topic:

I see 'Wave High Fidelity Storm Reference BNC Cables' received a superb review a couple of days ago (from Positive Feedback), particularly in relation to their use with M Scaler/Dave combo. Congratulations Nick!

https://positive-feedback.com/revie...ave-high-fidelity-storm-reference-bnc-cables/

 

[henryxiao]

Guys I need help please!

Currently using mscaler->dave->xi audio formula s + powerman -> 1266 phi tc

Since I felt some distortion happening, anyone using this combo with the amp at highest volume (In this way volume control on the amp should be bypassed?...) and use the dave as a preamp to control the volume?

Here is the specification of the xi audio formula s amp: I use low gain.

• Output: 6W @ 16 ohms
• Input Z: 10 Kohms
• Input Sensitivity: 1000 mV
• Gain:Selectable 10 dB (Low) / 16 dB (High)
• THD: 0.0006% @ 300 mW, distortion character compensated for high-end music playback
• Noise floor: -110 dBV

-20db @ digital pre amp mode the volume is already loud enough for me, but I'm not sure the voltage output @ -20db is sufficient for the amp input sensitivity.... also not sure if using the amp this way can cause bigger distortion....

Thanks very much!

 

[adrianm]

Does the way the BNC's are connected matter ? Reversing 3 and 4 on Dave while keeping them the same on the m-scaler i mean.

 

[JaZZ]

Hello Jazz, after re-reading my own posts on this subject I have a very embarrassing admisson to make this morning!
I should have refrained from mentioning Utopia in my posts at all, and only used Susvara as an example in my take on Dave's Achilles heel and I would have been on much safer ground than from resorting to by now quite misty memories instead of facts.

I now realize that by doing so I've painted myself in a corner I have great difficulty getting out from without losing all honour and credibility.

I could of course easily have hired a hit man to have you decapitated to solve the honour problem.

But then my conscience kicked in!
Yes I do in fact have a conscience,although quite a spacious one ,but still a conscience so in the end, I decided against that line of action.

Instead I now choose to admit that you are arguing with logic and facts all the way,and I got a bit carried away and added things to the discussion I should not have added.
Mea culpa!
My last straw of trying to "save face" would be to blame my "very temporary" lack of logic and actual provable facts, on the actual fact that I was under the influence of intoxicating liquids when I wrote my posts.
I went to town yesterday and bought some extra strong German Oktoberfest Bier.

Cheers CC

Thanks for your honesty! It's a relief for me, as I was seriously puzzled. And you seemed to confirm those who proclaim that the DAVE's output stage is not up to the task when it comes to driving headphones – which completely contradicts my own experience.

Now I can absolutely see how someone can like the DAVE better through an external headphone amplifier – it may make the sound fuller, warmer and generally more forgiving to the headphone's tonal flaws or critical recordings. On the other hand that has nothing to do with higher fidelity, technical superiority. And I'm explicitly not talking of hard to drive headphones (Susvara, Abyss...), although my own audition of the Susvara has led me to prefer the direct connection to the HiFiMan EF1000 amplifier. That said, audible distortion/clipping produced by the DAVE with volume settings below +4 dB is still another matter and something I consider impossible.

 

[Hooster]

Now I can absolutely see how someone can like the DAVE better through an external headphone amplifier – it may make the sound fuller, warmer and generally more forgiving to the headphone's tonal flaws or critical recordings. On the other hand that has nothing to do with higher fidelity, technical superiority.

Great post. It all depends on your priorities. Are you after high fidelity and technical superiority or are you looking for hours of listening pleasure? That is the question. If all I wanted was high fidelity and technical superiority my life would be simple. Just allocate a budget and buy the gear that measures the best, has lowest distortion, sufficient power, etc. I have been there and done that but it did not work for me.

 

[JaZZ]

Great post. It all depends on your priorities. Are you after high fidelity and technical superiority or are you looking for hours of listening pleasure? That is the question. If all I wanted was high fidelity and technical superiority my life would be simple. Just allocate a budget and buy the gear that measures the best, has lowest distortion, sufficient power, etc. I have been there and done that but it did not work for me.

Actually you can have both at the same time (and without the expense for an extra amp). I have explained it multiple times. But it's not well received

 

[miketlse]

Hello Jazz, after re-reading my own posts on this subject I have a very embarrassing admisson to make this morning!
I should have refrained from mentioning Utopia in my posts at all, and only used Susvara as an example in my take on Dave's Achilles heel and I would have been on much safer ground than from resorting to by now quite misty memories instead of facts.

I now realize that by doing so I've painted myself in a corner I have great difficulty getting out from without losing all honour and credibility.

I could of course easily have hired a hit man to have you decapitated to solve the honour problem.

But then my conscience kicked in!
Yes I do in fact have a conscience,although quite a spacious one ,but still a conscience so in the end, I decided against that line of action.

Instead I now choose to admit that you are arguing with logic and facts all the way,and I got a bit carried away and added things to the discussion I should not have added.
Mea culpa!
My last straw of trying to "save face" would be to blame my "very temporary" lack of logic and actual provable facts, on the actual fact that I was under the influence of intoxicating liquids when I wrote my posts.
I went to town yesterday and bought some extra strong German Oktoberfest Bier.

Cheers CC

Great post Christer.
Yes 2020 is a strange year for most music lovers, especially with covid restrictions.
Don't worry, most of us need an occasional glass of single malt or whatever, but views/opinions about good headphones/tracks etc are always valuable (admittedle sometimes short, medium or long term.)

 

[Hooster]

Actually you can have both at the same time (and without the expense for an extra amp). I have explained it multiple times. But it's not well received

You can explain it all you like, but that does not change the fact that some people prefer the sound with an external amp.

 

[JaZZ]

You can explain it all you like, but that does not change the fact that some people prefer the sound with an external amp.

Compared to what?