CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[Hifi Boy]

I've read it several times before actually and its once of the nicest reviews out there in my opinion.

 

[statfi]

their will always be SQ differences based on AB tests

Could you give a quick technical explanation as to why. E.g., due to "the difference of leakage of the appropriate antialiasing filters into the audible band", or whatever the real reason is.

 

[Rob Watts]

I am less worried about the decimation aliasing issue - that I can and already have eliminated that. I am more concerned about the interpolation issue, which in principle can be fixed by getting closer to an ideal sinc function; I suspect the bandwidth limitation needed for sampling theory will prove to be a red herring; I guess I am most worried about the bit reduction to 16 bits for CD upsetting depth perception.

 

[hmartin]

I am less worried about the decimation aliasing issue - that I can and already have eliminated that. I am more concerned about the interpolation issue, which in principle can be fixed by getting closer to an ideal sinc function; I suspect the bandwidth limitation needed for sampling theory will prove to be a red herring; I guess I am most worried about the bit reduction to 16 bits for CD upsetting depth perception.

What you would expect is that the bandwidth limiting filter needs to be quite a bit simpler than the interpolation filter. This due to that the high frequency content is much lower level hence the aliasing when bandwidth limiting is smaller for a given filter kernel. What I think will be interesting is how much better performance you get using a bandwidth limiting filter close to a SINC function rather than, for example, an IIR filter.

 

[Jawed]

Now and again I get 'motivated' to revisit old sites/threads just to 'catch-up'
this review interested me for several reasons:-
https://audiobacon.net/2018/02/15/w...headphone-amplifier-15000-musical-indulgence/
I couldn't believe there were no comments,so I posted one!(unusual for me!)
I then went back to the 15th Feb(date of review) on this thread to note if there had been any response to this review!
Interestingly not! However,there has been several comments since that date which make this review relevant.
One question concerning the use of the Abyss Phi(with the DAVE) and another questioning the need for an external Amp instead of the DAVE!
So, perhaps the review may provoke some response here which I would be interested to note??

Rob has suggested that his (still being designed) power pulse array amplifier(s) will be a worthwhile improvement over DAVE for difficult to drive headphones. 20W per channel into 8 ohms is about the minimum power level (the amps are primarily for speakers), so it's a question of patience...

Now playing: The Durutti Column - The First Aspect of the Same Thing

 

[Hifi Boy]

Rob has suggested that his (still being designed) power pulse array amplifier(s) will be a worthwhile improvement over DAVE for difficult to drive headphones. 20W per channel into 8 ohms is about the minimum power level (the amps are primarily for speakers), so it's a question of patience...

Now playing: The Durutti Column - The First Aspect of the Same Thing

Difficult to drive headphones? So, this amplifier will indeed be both a speaker and a proper headphone amp as well?

 

[jarnopp]

Difficult to drive headphones? So, this amplifier will indeed be both a speaker and a proper headphone amp as well?

It may or may not be, but you can drive headphones off the speaker taps of an amplifier, usually with an adapter of some sorts (like HiFiMan made for the HE-6) or directly from solid state amps, if you have very insensitive headphones and are careful with the volume.

 

[Hifi Boy]

It may or may not be, but you can drive headphones off the speaker taps of an amplifier, usually with an adapter of some sorts (like HiFiMan made for the HE-6) or directly from solid state amps, if you have very insensitive headphones and are careful with the volume.

Yup, makes sense, I'm still hoping its gonna be a headphone amp as well.

 

[astrostar59]

It may or may not be, but you can drive headphones off the speaker taps of an amplifier, usually with an adapter of some sorts (like HiFiMan made for the HE-6) or directly from solid state amps, if you have very insensitive headphones and are careful with the volume.

I would not attempt that. You have little protection for the HPs, so could blow them. The residual noise off a power amp may be enough to ruin the S/N ratio. You need as little as .5 watts of power to drive most HPs to ear splitting levels. Then the power amp is expecting a load of 8 ohms, maybe 16 max. Your HPs could be 300 or more, so you may get shifts in the FR. Plus many other reasons. Short answer - bad idea IMO.

 

[minibox]

My previous Dac was a Berkeley Alpha Dac Series 2 using the Alpha USB. I lived happily with this combination for quite a long time but recently purchased a dave, which does many things better than the Berkeley. Needless to say, I'm happy with my purchase. My question for the community is whether there are advantages to using the Alpha USB with the Dave for anything 192 kHz 24 bit and below? I'm not familiar with the different types of clocks and line drivers used in the Dave vs. the Alpha USB. Source is an Aurender n100h. I would be using the AES output of the Alpha USB.

 

[Jawed]

The AES input on DAVE doesn't have any galvanic isolation. So if your AES cable is properly constructed with the shield connected to pin 1 at only one end, and you plug that end into your Alpha USB, then you should get good sound quality with DAVE, even though the AES input on DAVE is generally regarded as the worst input. Common mode RF noise cannot get into DAVE with this configuration, since the differential (balanced) AES signalling cancels that noise.

If you have an optical output on a streamer or computer, you should try connecting that to DAVE using the optical cable that came with DAVE. Make sure it's the only connection to DAVE when you're listening, to ensure perfect galvanic isolation. If you can do this, then this is the "benchmark" sound quality that you can use to compare with the AES feed from the Alpha USB or with the USB input on DAVE itself.

DAVE's USB input has good galvanic isolation, but it's not perfect. In theory the Alpha USB with a correctly configured AES cable will be better. Unfortunately it seems AES cables are often constructed with pin 1 connected to the shield at both ends of the cable, which then causes RF problems in the DAC (whether it's DAVE or any other DAC).

Now playing: Suzanne Vega - Tom's Diner

 

[minibox]

The AES input on DAVE doesn't have any galvanic isolation. So if your AES cable is properly constructed with the shield connected to pin 1 at only one end, and you plug that end into your Alpha USB, then you should get good sound quality with DAVE, even though the AES input on DAVE is generally regarded as the worst input. Common mode RF noise cannot get into DAVE with this configuration, since the differential (balanced) AES signalling cancels that noise.

If you have an optical output on a streamer or computer, you should try connecting that to DAVE using the optical cable that came with DAVE. Make sure it's the only connection to DAVE when you're listening, to ensure perfect galvanic isolation. If you can do this, then this is the "benchmark" sound quality that you can use to compare with the AES feed from the Alpha USB or with the USB input on DAVE itself.

DAVE's USB input has good galvanic isolation, but it's not perfect. In theory the Alpha USB with a correctly configured AES cable will be better. Unfortunately it seems AES cables are often constructed with pin 1 connected to the shield at both ends of the cable, which then causes RF problems in the DAC (whether it's DAVE or any other DAC).

Now playing: Suzanne Vega - Tom's Diner

I could do optical out of my oppo-105 with files from an Lacie external drive.

 

[Jawed]

I could do optical out of my oppo-105 with files from an Lacie external drive.

Sweet, sounds like you have everything you need to work out what's best.

If you're running speakers you might want to spend time tweaking your system setup with just the optical configuration. That's really down to whether optical/DAVE is a lot different from your Berkeley setup. If the difference is large, then it's worth spending a week or two getting used to it, tweaking the setup and continuing to listen to make sure you're happy.

Then see if you can get USB or AES to sound as good. Who knows, maybe the optical sounds barely different...

Given that it seems your previous setup was limited to 192KHz/24-bit by the Alpha USB, being limited the same way by the optical input is probably no big deal to you. So, you might be tempted to switch to optical and forget about USB and AES!

(I wish someone had persuaded me to start using my Chord DACs via optical back at the end of 2015, it would have brought me more magic much sooner!)

Now playing: Manuel Galbán/Ry Cooder - Bolero sonambulo

 

[WilliamWykeham]

Just got my hands on a DAVE and it's the clear winner vs. Yggy for classical - I'm listening to a HIP recording of Haydn, Festetics Quartet's Complete String Quartets, which never sounded quite right on the Yggy, but with DAVE it's perfect. I could listen to this all night. Pop/Rock/Indie/Rap though, think I'm liking the Yggy more. Father John Misty through the DAVE seems a little boring, something I never feel with the Yggy. Same listening to Charles Bradley. And I can only keep one.. this is going to be a really tough decision. Wonder if my ears will get used to DAVE for pop.

 

[draytonklammer]

Just got my hands on a DAVE and it's the clear winner vs. Yggy for classical - I'm listening to a HIP recording of Haydn, Festetics Quartet's Complete String Quartets, which never sounded quite right on the Yggy, but with DAVE it's perfect. I could listen to this all night. Pop/Rock/Indie/Rap though, think I'm liking the Yggy more. Father John Misty through the DAVE seems a little boring, something I never feel with the Yggy. Same listening to Charles Bradley. And I can only keep one.. this is going to be a really tough decision. Wonder if my ears will get used to DAVE for pop.

Interesting view from another Yggdrasil owner.
I am currently selling mine and did not have the same choice as you. For me the Dave bested the Yggy in everything, along with 5-6 friends I had A/B with me.