CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[dmance]

Blu 2 + the amplifier is all that's required for listening to digital on speakers.

If this is so...Then the digital amp does the final scale up from 16fs to 2048fs (the 16fs comes from BLU2 to the amp across the dual SPDIF). Wow. RW said the step from 16fs to 256 and then to 2048 was far less FPGA intensive than the first Mscaler step to 16fs. So the amp will have that PLUS the noise shaper and pulse array direct conversion to amplified analog?? And with a volume control!
Is this conjecture or reality? It makes great sense!

 

[x RELIC x]

Well, the full duties of the digital amp aren't confirmed by Rob and there are a lot of questions about its function which is the whole reason the Mscalar/DAVE/digital amp stack is confusing. For example, which device handles the jitter timing? Does the Blu mk2 and digital amp leave the DAVE out of the mix, or is the DAVE still required? Too many unknowns to confirm anything at this point.

 

[EVOLVIST]

No.

DAVE outputs an analogue signal. What is the point of feeding an analogue signal into a digital amp?

Devialet approach the problem by using an ADC convert the analogue input > the digital signal processing > then the DAC to convert the modified digital signal back to analogue > the headphones or speakers.

Because amplifying what was once an analog signal has to happen in the digital domain to be processed again without added distortion (though according to somebody else - me getting second-hand information - that Rob claims that distortion will be in the amp, but nominal and cannot be heard).

But maybe I'm wrong. Who knows; I probably am.

Jawed,though, DSD is handled by the Blu2. Indeed, Rob has said he prefers the DSD filter in the Blu2 than that of the DAVE, though he was quick to point out that it is personal preference.

The "Super DAC" thing is pure conjecture, as well. I see where you're headed, but for all we know from what Rob has also said, the "digital amps" could be rolled out in increments, starting with the 20w model, which simply won't cut it for more demanding speakers - meaning 80% or more of what's out there.

 

[EVOLVIST]

  The DX outputs will go to my DX input power amps - so these are specially designed digital input power amps that will decode the DX outputs from Dave.
 
I have started work on the next issue of PCB's for the first power amp.
 
The benefits of the power amp technology are that they are like Dave's output stage - one single feedback path from digital data to analogue outputs that will drive loudspeakers. The first model will be 20W, then multiple output powers to suit. The key to a single analogue stage is transparency - we only have 4 passive components in the direct signal path, one global feedback loop, and exceptionally low distortion, as the amp structure is a third order analogue noise shaper. The output stage is non-switching so timing recovery is set by the DAC. The early prototypes gave extraordinary depth and detail resolution, due to the simple analogue section.
 
Rob

 
 

  The power amp prototype has been stuck on my desk waiting for me to test it for a year now. So my priorities this year is the amp and Davina.
 
Combining Dave with the amp using the digital outputs, I am eagerly anticipating, as I expect a huge increase in transparency - in short, it will eliminate the sound of a power amp, you will be left with the equivalence of just the sound of Dave driving loudspeakers directly.
 
Rob

 
 

 
Dave has 705/768 kHz DX digital outputs to go with my digital power amps. These are non-switching, but still retain the analogue simplicity of two resistors and 2 capacitors plus a single global feedback path. But power output will be from 20W to at least 200W. I just finished testing the DX outputs today.
 
The first DX power amp will be available next year and will initially be 20W RMS with a 70W mono-block option.
 
Rob 

 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/766517/chord-electronics-dave/4800#post_12871615 

 

[Jawed]

Blu 2 has 705/768 kHz DX digital outputs. The digital amplifier is designed with a volume control.

Now playing: The Jesus and Mary Chain - Never Understand

 

[Triode User]

Blu 2 has 705/768 kHz DX digital outputs. The digital amplifier is designed with a volume control.

Now playing: The Jesus and Mary Chain - Never Understand

Are you implying that you think / know that the Dave may not be needed? ie Upscaler direct to new digital amp?
 
Of course the problem with trying to double guess what will be released is that it depends on what other kit Chord release in the meantime and whether Blu2 and Dave are still their flagship digital processors at the time.

 

[bigfatpaulie]

 
Are you implying that you think / know that the Dave may not be needed? ie Upscaler direct to new digital amp?
 
Of course the problem with trying to double guess what will be released is that it depends on what other kit Chord release in the meantime and whether Blu2 and Dave are still their flagship digital processors at the time.

 
This is my question too.  It would be nice if RW could throw us a bone here.  DAVE owners are heavily invested in Chord...  

 

[miketlse]

   
This is my question too.  It would be nice if RW could throw us a bone here.  DAVE owners are heavily invested in Chord...  

 
Whatever the overall system, you need a DAC (plus mosfets?) as the final stage, to ensure that you are feeding an analogue signal to the speakers.
You cannot have the existing DAVE as that DAC, because it will only provide an output power of 2 W (enough for some high efficiency speakers, but not the majority of speakers).
 
If the DAVE was the final stage, then why bother developing a digital amplifier with a power of 20W?
Maybe DAVE is the interim stage, utilising its upscaling, but you will still need something else to provide the 20W.
 
I don't think RW can throw any bones for a long while yet.
 
 
My wish list for the long term vision is for Chord to be developing a single box device like Devialet power amps, but that will not help existing DAVE owners.
analogue or digital inputs > digital amp > DAC to speakers.
 
RW will have all the individual elements designed in maybe a couple of years (Davina, DAVE, digital amps, etc), but I suspect that Chord are developing the many boxes solution for the next few years.   

 

[EVOLVIST]

All I know a right now is that I need an interim solution for amplification. If all goes well, I pay for my dream speakers tomorrow, so I need an amp that isn't too much of a bottleneck with the DAVE.

That Benchmark AHB2, at least on paper, sounds like to a winner. So does the TToby (or a larger Chord amp with more wattage). Even the SPL Performer s800. But really, I want to be done. If the future new Chord line of amps doesn't suit my needs then I have to think permenant solution, too.

Really, I'm sure that the M-Scaler + DAVE can keep me going for a good long while.

 

[Triode User]

All I know a right now is that I need an interim solution for amplification. If all goes well, I pay for my dream speakers tomorrow, so I need an amp that isn't too much of a bottleneck with the DAVE.

That Benchmark AHB2, at least on paper, sounds like to a winner. So does the TToby (or a larger Chord amp with more wattage). Even the SPL Performer s800. But really, I want to be done. If the future new Chord line of amps doesn't suit my needs then I have to think permenant solution, too.

Really, I'm sure that the M-Scaler + DAVE can keep me going for a good long while.

Just a word of caution, how do you know they are your dream speakers? Have you auditioned them? Or are you relying on a trial period after purchase?
 
Also, if they are the 99db speakers that you have gone in the direction of in order to drive direct from Dave then they might not be your dream speakers when you connect the to an amp with a bit of poke. Indeed, if you get an amp capable of driving some less efficient speakers then your options are somewhat wider and not just restricted to high efficiency speakers (which may or may not be a compromised design to achieve the high efficiency).

 

[JaZZ]

 

All I know a right now is that I need an interim solution for amplification. If all goes well, I pay for my dream speakers tomorrow, so I need an amp that isn't too much of a bottleneck with the DAVE.

That Benchmark AHB2, at least on paper, sounds like to a winner. So does the TToby (or a larger Chord amp with more wattage). Even the SPL Performer s800. But really, I want to be done. If the future new Chord line of amps doesn't suit my needs then I have to think permenant solution, too.

Really, I'm sure that the M-Scaler + DAVE can keep me going for a good long while.

Just a word of caution, how do you know they are your dream speakers? Have you auditioned them? Or are you relying on a trial period after purchase?
 
Also, if they are the 99db speakers that you have gone in the direction of in order to drive direct from Dave then they might not be your dream speakers when you connect the to an amp with a bit of poke. Indeed, if you get an amp capable of driving some less efficient speakers then your options are somewhat wider and not just restricted to high efficiency speakers (which may or may not be a compromised design to achieve the high efficiency).

 
Good arguments – which I absolutely share. I haven't met high-efficiency speakers passably matching my sonic ideals, let alone fullrange speakers. On the other hand, to others their undisputable merits may be what they're looking for essentially.

 

[EVOLVIST]

Just a word of caution, how do you know they are your dream speakers? Have you auditioned them? Or are you relying on a trial period after purchase?

Also, if they are the 99db speakers that you have gone in the direction of in order to drive direct from Dave then they might not be your dream speakers when you connect the to an amp with a bit of poke. Indeed, if you get an amp capable of driving some less efficient speakers then your options are somewhat wider and not just restricted to high efficiency speakers (which may or may not be a compromised design to achieve the high efficiency).

No, they are Eggleston Works Andra II and I'm very familiar with them, as a friend owns a pair. I found a mint pair still in the crates for well below the $20k MSRP.

 

[JaZZ]

 

Just a word of caution, how do you know they are your dream speakers? Have you auditioned them? Or are you relying on a trial period after purchase?

Also, if they are the 99db speakers that you have gone in the direction of in order to drive direct from Dave then they might not be your dream speakers when you connect the to an amp with a bit of poke. Indeed, if you get an amp capable of driving some less efficient speakers then your options are somewhat wider and not just restricted to high efficiency speakers (which may or may not be a compromised design to achieve the high efficiency).

No, they are Eggleston Works Andra II and I'm very familiar with them, as a friend owns a pair. I found a mint pair still in the crates for well below the $20k MSRP.

 
So you have changed your mind completely!? Didn't you like the Omegas?

 

[EVOLVIST]

So you have changed your mind completely!? Didn't you like the Omegas?

Oh, I like the Omega speakers, but in the end I realized that anything I was reaching out for other than the speakers that made me eschew headphones, was just a half-measure. That's not why I bought DAVE and it's not why I'm buying the Blu2 so that I can compromise in audio.

So, I'll chalk it up to the growing pains of moving from headphones to speakers.

That my wife and I have been able to work things out, and now that I'm back home, I can now turn my parlour into a nice listening room that's befitting these behometh speakers. I've now dropped my DAVE into my friend's rig three times, most recently with the Icon tube amp I've been auditioning, and though the amp doesn't suit my taste, it's the speakers that really synergies with me. You just can't compromise on that.

The Omega CAMs are, indeed, brilliant, only they are limited to nearfield and I want room-filling audio. So does my family. If I'm putting all of this cash into my hobby, I might as well share it with the rest of the gang. I can only imagine what the Blu2 will do to speakers that are already amazing in their presentation, depth and accuracy.

I don't know if I'll have to get into much room treatment, but that's not a bad price considering I'm getting these speakers for a song.

The only question mark is what amp I end up using.

 

[Triode User]

No, they are Eggleston Works Andra II and I'm very familiar with them, as a friend owns a pair. I found a mint pair still in the crates for well below the $20k MSRP.

Haha, you are ridiculous!!
 
I guess that the Icon Audio amp didn't sound toooo bad though? Maybe you should see if you have a hear to an 845 tube amp but I suspect your heart isn't in it?