[Tom Blake]

Thanks Jeremy - interesting info. DLNA streaming from Poly is working perfectly for me with the latest beta build of Glider (1.6.2.21).

 

[Peter Hyatt]

Did update have to be at the time of announcement to take effect?

How to verify if update was successful?

 

[jarnopp]

Did update have to be at the time of announcement to take effect?

How to verify if update was successful?

Put Poly into its hotspot mode with pin for 5 seconds. Log into Poly from your iPhone and the screen at the bottom will show the version. Should now be 1.0.10.

 

[ubs28]

Been running Glider now for over an hour, in hotspot mode, just on a loop to burn in the HD6xx, no issues whatsoever.

My home networks is good one, all Ubiquiti (Unifi, some will say its crap lol) nothing else has any issue, though I do have a lot of devices, I even recently decreased my 2g power just in case, and no problems with anything on 2g other than Poly, I have 8 2g connections to one access point, zero on the other, I changed to channel 9 from auto, it didn't help

If you have no issues, then I assume DLNA always works 100%. So you always get sound in DLNA mode with either Glider or 8Player?

And also neither apps has thrown an error message that it failed to play a song using the SD player?

 

[Dieling]

Just in time for Christmas.... my Poly doesn't work at all on my home network anymore.

I deleted the databases from the card and also removed and reinstalled glider to get clean album art.

Glider doesn't find anything - same network, same Access Point:


Rebooted iPhone X, rebooted Poly.

Ran glider again.
Nothing.




In Poly Hotspot mode, fresh install of glider it works, but no network mode for me.

I encounter the same after update firmware, reboot poly and iPhone with no joy.
Then I reboot my router and Bingo, it works like before now.

I suspect it has to be something with the router side, same MAC address but different Poly firmware may stop Poly from being recognized a DLNA renderer.

 

[JeremyLaurenson]

So I did a little digging this morning, and here is a little background. (All this is on my Meraki MR APs)

Devices on a network each have IP addresses and can send messages to each other where they explicitly include on the envelope (packet) the destination IP address.
When they want to search for devices, they can send a "broadcast" message and all devices listen for those.
In order to cut down on these broadcast messages a hybrid message was invented decades ago called a multicast message. These messages are sent to a specific IP address like 239.255.255.250 and all those listening for this address hear it. This is an example of the "Hey, are there any DLNA folks out there?" messages.
Now, if you only have a single, "dumb" access point on your network, then the devices just listen for those messages.

In networks that are smarter or more complex, they limit these types of messages moving between devices to cut down on traffic. Essentially no multicast flows between devices unless they have specifically asked to "join a multicast group"

Heres the DLNA/UPNP documentation for how to discover services starting at page 38:
https://web.archive.org/web/2015110...cs/arch/UPnP-arch-DeviceArchitecture-v2.0.pdf


Below is a trace of my network this morning where I powered up Poly and my iPhone. Notice how the iPhone, when I launch Glider, asks to join 224.0.0.251 and 239.255.255.250. Now the smart network knows that whenever it sees those packets they need to be forwarded to the access point and out to the iPhone.

However... poly is not on this list. It never asks to join 239.255.255.250 and so Glider and 8Player can ask to find sources as much as they want, the network itself is smart and will never send the traffic.

(10.0.1.1 is the router, 10.0.1.111 is another iPad.)

There are some options to turn off IGMP and whats called IGMP Snooping on some of these networks, but that would break other things.

Its also possible Poly never listens for the messages anyway, because every minute they send out an explicit set of advertisements of what they do:

And once again, if you are on the same network and this stuff isn't filtered by default, you'd see it.


Now, on a smart network, when both clients are in the same access point, you'd think they'd hear each other because their just sending Wifi messages and everyone hears them, right?

But the iPhone is on 5GHz and the Poly is 2.4... so the Access point, even if there is only one, is receiving the multicast on 5GHz and has to forward it back out on 2.4... and because its smart and doesn't want to flood the network (Why would it send to the 2.4 if nobody is listening) it blocks it.

See how the Poly is on channel 1 and the iPhone is on channel 44 - they're not tuned to the same station, so they never hear each other.

The solution is for Poly to also send IGMP group join messages. By default under Linux this is off and needs to be turned on even if by a simple shell command on Poly:

https://superuser.com/questions/324824/linux-built-in-or-open-source-program-to-join-multicast-group



Now, all this said, if the controlling app IS asking to hear those messages, Glider or 8Player - then the broadcasts that happen by Poly should be heard as a kind of workaround, so long as its advertising all the necessary. Its sending those packets every second or so... which is kinda spammy.

Im working with @joe28 to see what Glider maybe sees and dig deeper.


For those with a simpler network, their devices ignore multicast and send them as broadcasts instead, avoiding all of this, but having far more "spam" on the network. If you can find it you could turn on options to "Broadcast multicast messages"... but its unlikely you have those options.

Businesses never allow this.

 

[JeremyLaurenson]

So I did a little digging this morning, and here is a little background.

The solution is for Poly to also send IGMP group join messages. By default under Linux this is off and needs to be turned on even if by a simple shell command on Poly:

https://superuser.com/questions/324824/linux-built-in-or-open-source-program-to-join-multicast-group

@Matt Bartlett and @Mojo ideas I hope you're not working today

 

[jarnopp]

Anybody noticed if the power up issue is fixed in this update?

It does seem better, but I haven't powered on from a completely cold overnight state yet. Will report on that tomorrow...hopefully!

Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be better. Poly cold this morning did not turn on with Mojo. Tried twice. Had to plug power in and she powered right up. So, for now, will have to do this or the break apart and reconnect trick. The pin trick does not seem to work reliably

This is a universal problem or just some Polys? I did not have this issue on 1.04 but have since 1.06.

 

[JeremyLaurenson]

Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be better. Poly cold this morning did not turn on with Mojo. Tried twice. Had to plug power in and she powered right up. So, for now, will have to do this or the break apart and reconnect trick. The pin trick does not seem to work reliably

This is a universal problem or just some Polys? I did not have this issue on 1.04 but have since 1.06.

I don't see this - its specific Polys.

 

[jarnopp]

I don't see this - its specific Polys.

Thanks. After a well-deserved holiday, I hope @Matt Bartlett can find a solution.

 

[JeremyLaurenson]

So I did a little digging this morning, and here is a little background. (All this is on my Meraki MR APs)

Its also possible Poly never listens for the messages anyway, because every minute they send out an explicit set of advertisements of what they do:



Now, all this said, if the controlling app IS asking to hear those messages, Glider or 8Player - then the broadcasts that happen by Poly should be heard as a kind of workaround, so long as its advertising all the necessary. Its sending those packets every second or so... which is kinda spammy.

So, as mentioned the Poly broadcasts services so players like glider or 8player who HAVE sent multicast requests to hear services would see them...

Now I notice that these are the Poly advertisements after about 30minutes:



There are no more advertisements for:
407 - Media server service
419 - Content Directory
So any app will not see that there is a renderer (player) or any content.
I captured network traffic for a further 5 minutes and saw zero of those advertisements.

Presumably those services have crashed in addition to not implementing IGMP Join requests to get multicast messages.


So, the net-net is Poly not discoverable by 8player or Glider.
@Mojo ideas @Matt Bartlett

 

[NYanakiev]

That's why things are not getting solved and they are not delivered in time, because the Poly fanboys are always finding excuses and they are happy with what they've paid for (an incomplete product). I promise I will be quiet for now.

I am anything but a Poly fanboy and have expressed my frustration on multiple occasions.

I haven’t had a chance to try out the latest update (only took Mojo along on my holiday) but my Poly experience has been underwhelming so far.

This doesn’t mean that I should be making sarcastic comments the whole time and annoying others. Please go find a better definition of “fanboy”

 

[NYanakiev]

I don't see this - its specific Polys.

I’ve only seen this happen once.

 

[corius]

So, as mentioned the Poly broadcasts services so players like glider or 8player who HAVE sent multicast requests to hear services would see them...

@Mojo ideas @Matt Bartlett

Exceptional debugging and fault analysis!

You can't really put a value on maintain customer trust, and I suspect the whole brand has been somewhat damaged by Poly's "early" release without them having performed adequate testing such as you have done.

I really hope that Chord recognise your contribution and reward you accordingly. At the least I'd imagine that a complimentary Hugo 2 would be on the cards?

 

[opienor]

Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be better. Poly cold this morning did not turn on with Mojo. Tried twice. Had to plug power in and she powered right up. So, for now, will have to do this or the break apart and reconnect trick. The pin trick does not seem to work reliably

This is a universal problem or just some Polys? I did not have this issue on 1.04 but have since 1.06.

Thanks a lot for the info jarnopp. Very kind of you
I got to install the update last night. Just like you I experienced no improvement on my Poly this morning. Really hoping this issue can be fixed. Winter is cold and long here in Norway...