[Staxton]

It truly is guys as I'd said earlier "this ain't no Raspberry pie " meaning that Poly is way beyond the technologies in that excellent little processor though naturally I was severely rounded on for my statement but what I'd said was absolutely true in trying placate one individual who'd putt his own system together at a relatively low cost. Although the fact that must have been twenty five times the size and mass of Poly and had simpler functionality had illuded him.

 


I am the "one individual" who put his own system together at a relatively low cost.

I don't think anything has "illuded" me. I believe I made it quite clear in my post that I in no way thought my device was superior in construction, quality, or design to the Poly. What I did say was that (a) I believed that my homemade device essentially performed all the functions of the Poly, with even more storage, and (b) given that mine was put together with low cost parts, I expected Chord to make a far superior product, but that I questioned what exactly it was about the Poly that justified its price. I received no reply to that question.

As to the relative size of my device, I am afraid that it is not "twenty five time times the size and mass of Poly." Perhaps it wasn't clear that my unit included the Mojo in the case with the Raspberry Pi. The unit I made that most closely resembles the functionality of the Poly (the one without a screen but operable via a PC, phone, ipad, etc) is 125 x 98.2 x 26 mm and weighs 318 g with the Mojo, 3 Full Size SD cards, the Pi and everything else needed to run it. Based on the published specs, the Poly/Mojo combination will be 130mm x 62mm x 22mm (5 mm longer, 34 mm narrower, and 4 mm thinner than my device). Chord does not provide weight info for the Mojo or the Poly, but I weighed the Mojo at 172 g, making the total weight of my additional components at about 146g. The version I made with a screen, including the Mojo, was 125 x 98.2 x 34 mm, and weighed 410 grams.

Pointedly, I made no representation about the sound quality of my device, either on its own or in comparison to the Poly. I will say that to my ears, it performs as well as my former front end: a Samsung Galaxy S4 with UAPP. Obviously, if the Poly has better sound quality, that might very well make it a great, possibly the best, front end for the Mojo. But, despite numerous requests from people on Head-Fi, there has been no representation by Chord as to how--sound quality-wise--the Poly compares to all the other solutions people have used (Android phones, iPhones, laptops, micro-rendus, and, yes, even the raspberry pi). Absent that information, the only thing I based my comments on was the feature set of the Poly as compared to other devices.

What compelled me to comment was not the price/feature set of the Poly standing alone, but rather the hostile tone and general lack of specificity in Chord's responses to what I believed (and still believe) to have been honest expressions of surprise at the price of the Poly. And I continue to believe that it has not given any details about how the Poly outperforms other front ends so as to justify the price. I recognize that the direct attachment between the Mojo and the Poly is far superior to a cable between a phone and the Mojo, but does that alone justify the price given that the phone can do everything else that the Poly does? Is there something about the Poly's WiFi that makes it more reliable than WiFi from a phone or other device? Is there something about its SD card reader that works better than an off the shelf reader that costs pennies? Is there something about the Bluetooth used on the Poly that greatly exceeds other Bluetooth chips? Yes, the Poly has a great design, and does do a lot of things in a small form factor. All I have been asking is, given that the functions performed by the Poly are available in a wide range of other, far less expensive devices, what specifically is it about the Poly that supports it price other than its superior design and craftsmanship.

I repeat: I am not saying my device is better than the Poly or that the Poly does not serve a definite need. I made my device by taking off-the-shelf parts, such as the Raspberry Pi--parts that were not made exclusively for the purpose of serving as the front-end for a Mojo--and modifying them as much as I could to suit my needs. I always knew that the right way to go about this job was to do what Chord has in fact done: make a board expressly designed with only the features necessary to serve the purpose, and put it in a beautiful case, with proper connections, etc. I also knew that doing this would cost more, perhaps much more, than what I put together. But, my surprise at the Poly's price arises from the fact that it actually does less than what a Raspberry Pi can do, or for that matter, a cheap Android phone, albeit in a slightly smaller total size. And from what I can tell so far, the Poly does nothing radically better than the Pi or those other front ends. I am still waiting for Chord to do a better job explain what specifically makes the Poly superior. Of course, Chord has no obligation to do so, but I also believe that Chord should not attack and belittle potential customers who ask these questions.

 

[Mojo ideas]

It truly is guys as I'd said earlier "this ain't no Raspberry pie " meaning that Poly is way beyond the technologies in that excellent little processor though naturally I was severely rounded on for my statement but what I'd said was absolutely true in trying placate one individual who'd putt his own system together at a relatively low cost. Although the fact that must have been twenty five times the size and mass of Poly and had simpler functionality had illuded him.

 


I am the "one individual" who put his own system together at a relatively low cost.

I don't think anything has "illuded" me. I believe I made it quite clear in my post that I in no way thought my device was superior in construction, quality, or design to the Poly. What I did say was that (a) I believed that my homemade device essentially performed all the functions of the Poly, with even more storage, and (b) given that mine was put together with low cost parts, I expected Chord to make a far superior product, but that I questioned what exactly it was about the Poly that justified its price. I received no reply to that question.

As to the relative size of my device, I am afraid that it is not "twenty five time times the size and mass of Poly." Perhaps it wasn't clear that my unit included the Mojo in the case with the Raspberry Pi. The unit I made that most closely resembles the functionality of the Poly (the one without a screen but operable via a PC, phone, ipad, etc) is 125 x 98.2 x 26 mm and weighs 318 g with the Mojo, 3 Full Size SD cards, the Pi and everything else needed to run it. Based on the published specs, the Poly/Mojo combination will be 130mm x 62mm x 22mm (5 mm longer, 34 mm narrower, and 4 mm thinner than my device). Chord does not provide weight info for the Mojo or the Poly, but I weighed the Mojo at 172 g, making the total weight of my additional components at about 146g. The version I made with a screen, including the Mojo, was 125 x 98.2 x 34 mm, and weighed 410 grams.

Pointedly, I made no representation about the sound quality of my device, either on its own or in comparison to the Poly. I will say that to my ears, it performs as well as my former front end: a Samsung Galaxy S4 with UAPP. Obviously, if the Poly has better sound quality, that might very well make it a great, possibly the best, front end for the Mojo. But, despite numerous requests from people on Head-Fi, there has been no representation by Chord as to how--sound quality-wise--the Poly compares to all the other solutions people have used (Android phones, iPhones, laptops, micro-rendus, and, yes, even the raspberry pi). Absent that information, the only thing I based my comments on was the feature set of the Poly as compared to other devices.

What compelled me to comment was not the price/feature set of the Poly standing alone, but rather the hostile tone and general lack of specificity in Chord's responses to what I believed (and still believe) to have been honest expressions of surprise at the price of the Poly. And I continue to believe that it has not given any details about how the Poly outperforms other front ends so as to justify the price. I recognize that the direct attachment between the Mojo and the Poly is far superior to a cable between a phone and the Mojo, but does that alone justify the price given that the phone can do everything else that the Poly does? Is there something about the Poly's WiFi that makes it more reliable than WiFi from a phone or other device? Is there something about its SD card reader that works better than an off the shelf reader that costs pennies? Is there something about the Bluetooth used on the Poly that greatly exceeds other Bluetooth chips? Yes, the Poly has a great design, and does do a lot of things in a small form factor. All I have been asking is, given that the functions performed by the Poly are available in a wide range of other, far less expensive devices, what specifically is it about the Poly that supports it price other than its superior design and craftsmanship.

I repeat: I am not saying my device is better than the Poly or that the Poly does not serve a definite need. I made my device by taking off-the-shelf parts, such as the Raspberry Pi--parts that were not made exclusively for the purpose of serving as the front-end for a Mojo--and modifying them as much as I could to suit my needs. I always knew that the right way to go about this job was to do what Chord has in fact done: make a board expressly designed with only the features necessary to serve the purpose, and put it in a beautiful case, with proper connections, etc. I also knew that doing this would cost more, perhaps much more, than what I put together. But, my surprise at the Poly's price arises from the fact that it actually does less than what a Raspberry Pi can do, or for that matter, a cheap Android phone, albeit in a slightly smaller total size. And from what I can tell so far, the Poly does nothing radically better than the Pi or those other front ends. I am still waiting for Chord to do a better job explain what specifically makes the Poly superior. Of course, Chord has no obligation to do so, but I also believe that Chord should not attack and belittle potential customers who ask these questions.

I apppaud you for what you've done and in no way did I belittle what you'd done after all I said it was likely to be twenty five times the size. You are a hobbyist which is wonderful as it how I started when I was just a kid. Please understand we not only have to build one we have to source specialised components then design and build many tens of thousands of products and market and sell them around the world the technologies that we have employed are not those that can be made available to the general public that is why I said it ain't no Raspberry pie though I do love what the pie is and has done for programming in the U.K. You simply can't compare what you are doing even if you've got a working sytem to what we've achieved with Poly.

 

[fuhransahis]

I apppaud you for what you've done and in no way did I belittle what you'd done after all I said it was likely to be twenty five times the size. You are a hobbyist which is wonderful as it how I started when I was just a kid. Please understand we not only have to build one we have to source specialised components then design and build many tens of thousands of products and market and sell them around the world the technologies that we have employed are not those that can be made available to the general public that is why I said it ain't no Raspberry pie though I do love what the pie is and has done for programming in the U.K. You simply can't compare what you are doing even if you've got a working sytem to what we've achieved with Poly.

I think the main point of the poster's comments is that he does not see how you can justify the price of the Poly, the answer to which has still not been provided, and a question I am very much wondering myself. I would love to get the Poly but, unlike a poster on the prior page, am not willing to pay more than the cost of the Mojo itself just to remove my wired connection from it, or as he posted it, akin to paying "$600 for an invisible cable"

. That in addition to the SD card reader still does not add up.
 
PS: You are of course not required to justify yourself to us, and I am not one to demand anything of you, but as customers of yours who have purchased the Mojo, I think it would be of great value and greatly appreciated if we could understand more as to where the added value is, and how it is that the sum of the Poly's parts are of greater value than those of the Mojo.

 

[Mojo ideas]

I think the main point of the poster's comments is that he does not see how you can justify the price of the Poly, the answer to which has still not been provided, and a question I am very much wondering myself. I would love to get the Poly but, unlike a poster on the prior page, am not willing to pay more than the cost of the Mojo itself just to remove my wired connection from it, or as he posted it, akin to paying "$600 for an invisible cable" :blink: . That in addition to the SD card reader still does not add up.

PS: You are of course not required to justify yourself to us, and I am not one to demand anything of you, but as customers of yours who have purchased the Mojo, I think it would be of great value and greatly appreciated if we could understand more as to where the added value is, and how it is that the sum of the Poly's parts are of greater value than those of the Mojo.

We follow simple rules the Bill of material is about thirty percent more and it's far more complex to manufacture Mojo has a four layer board. Poly has a triple core high level processor and a ten layer circuit board with four thousand blind and buried vias its a minute monster of complexity any of you dealing with this stuff in your own industries should realise this

 

[fuhransahis]

We follow simple rules the Bill of material is about thirty percent more and it's far more complex to manufacture Mojo has a four layer board. Poly has a triple core high level processor and a ten layer circuit board with four thousand blind and buried vias its a minute monster of complexity any of you dealing with this stuff in your own industries should realise this

Understood, thank you for your response.

 

[jarnopp]

Maybe we need to keep hashing over the price, but I think price is only relevant to the discussion when you are comparing among products...and we don't have the full feature set or the "how does it sound compared to" available yet to have those conversations.  So, we are simply sitting around saying things like "Maserati just release a new SUV for $72,000 and it doesn't do anything that a $36,000 Mazda SUV does!  How can they justify it?  It even has less legroom."
 
I want the range of different products, features, design decisions, casework, branding, DIY, high-end, mid-fi, etc.  Whether I will buy the Chord Poly to be able to remove the cord, or do something else, remains to be seen.  But, clearly I think we can all agree the Head-Fi community was surprised by the price.  Now we need to know the rest.  I doubt rehashing it here will get Chord to lower the price.

 

[flipper203]

Ok fit the technology points but then what does it brings in terms of sound and functionality that we don't have when the Mojo is paired to a phone or dap. I am new owner of the Mojo and what would motivate me to put money in the poly is of course knowing that it is the result of research and development with top electronics but what does it bring to the end user? That is the important thing. If it sounds better than any other pairing lots of people may go for it even if they are reluctant for the moment

 

[tonykaz]

Thank you Mr.Tumyum,

Wireless Mojo :  that's a good one.   
 
It's probably worth it to have the Mojo wireless, providing you own suitable wireless headphones.  
 
I like your concept of simply listening to music, not trying to be analytical while trying to relax. 
 
Still, I think this Mojo concept is about to get a major "Slammed" as the Audiophile Smart phones find market adaptation:  Look-out, here comes the V20 and Tidal.
 
5 Years from now we'll be in a whole new world of Audio technology with all this 2017 stuff long-forgotten. 
 
Tony in Michigan

 

[ThatPhil]

Found a pic of the extra big case

 

[Tympan]

  Given two identical lossless music files, let say .Flac (one stored on iphone or laptop and one stored on Poly's SD card), does anyone know if the mojo sound the same? 

BUMP 
 
Does anyone know if the mojo sound as good streaming files from an external hard drive (server, laptop, iphone/android storage...) as it would reading files straight from the poly's SD card?
 
Hint: that's when the knowledgeable Chord team should jump in and educate/reassure potential returning customers. Thanx in advance!

 

[NaiveSound]

All I know is that different sources changes the sound wheb transporting the data to mojo. As do cables between sources and mojo (even if it's the same file) and ultimately the way it is transported (optical/usb/coax ect) can also change sound.

Slightly... But then again, it depends how good your cans are for you to notice these mild changes.

To me, usb has shows to be the best way yet (to me) but different phones/laptops have shown a difference in sound.


I wish it wasn't so.








Hey grumpy? Ready to ask me for measurements? Maybe your just too old to have the ability to notice the minute changes.... But what do I care?

 

[GRUMPYOLDGUY]

All I know is that different sources changes the sound wheb transporting the data to mojo. As do cables between sources and mojo (even if it's the same file) and ultimately the way it is transported (optical/usb/coax ect) can also change sound.

Slightly... But then again, it depends how good your cans are for you to notice these mild changes.

To me, usb has shows to be the best way yet (to me) but different phones/laptops have shown a difference in sound.


I wish it wasn't so.








Hey grumpy? Ready to ask me for measurements? Maybe your just too old to have the ability to notice the minute changes.... But what do I care?

Yes, please provide evidence before stating opinion as fact.

 

[Tumyum]

  he posted it, akin to paying "$600 for an invisible cable"

. That in addition to the SD card reader still does not add up.
 

 
There're many people here that bought $1,000+ cables and then what? At the end, it still a cable. You know, a cable... I will buy a very cool cable. Like it's there but it's not there at the same time. How cool is that? And I just gave it a cool name and will catch on, watch.... 

Why are we still talking about pricing? Seemed like more of bitch'en now instead of discussions. Either buy or not, end of story! The people that decide not to buy so why complaining? I don't get it. You're not going to buy anyway. The people that complaining now and decide to buy later.... what are you trying to do to yourself man? Don't hurt yourself more than you already did! The people that complaining now and knowing that you will buy it later no matter what because you like the idea of "invisible cable", then more power to us. LOL!

 

 

[psikey]

I can't disagree with Grumpy on this one.
 
My Mojo sounds the same if its connected to smartphone or laptop by USB using either the cheap copper cable with ferrite ring or my new silver cable. I can't detect any change in sound using either UAPP on phone or JRiver Media Center on PC listening to DSD tracks (Mojo showing White ball on both). With the ferrite ring removed on the cheap one it does sound worse by virtue of the cellular interference it gets.
 
My last earing test was as good as it gets (crap vision but ears have always been good & undamaged from my youth). Could be my Brain wouldn't resolve the fine differences or we just don't measure the things correct with test equipment to show the difference or  ..... there is no difference, just placebo/wishful thinking to justify expense ! 
 
I still believe analogue cables do make a difference (especially long ones) but those transferring digital data once external noise/corruption removed, not so sure. I'd like to think my £25 silver USB OTG sounds better that the £5 cheap copper USB OTG with ferrite ring but I can't detect any. It is better for reduced size, cable more flexible & looks nicer.

 

[leaky74]

Dumb question here but if you were out and about could you use a phone as a personal wifi hotspot to stream music from the phone itself to the POLY (vs using Bluetooth)?