[vladstef]

Been listening more to my new earbuds, and while I find both sound good I begin to think about DRIVERS FLEX....what does it mean exactly?

IS it about rattling noise create by drivers in some strange way like at high volume?

I encounter this in left earbud of Moondrop Nameless and it kind of depress me Don't know what it is or if its just because they can't deal with volume I listen too...wich even cheap earbuds can deal with without creating distortion.

This is some QC issue on Nameless (I think), membrane is probably dislodged slightly. This is a very common issue with EMX500, people call it "rattling" - not distortion. If it were distortion you'd hear it on both sides plus rattling just happens all of a sudden and is very loud while distortion creeps up as you increase volume.

Driver flex happens when there is way too much air pressure on the driver's membrane and it literally moves the membrane from the resting position, creating a tin foil crackling sound. This happens with certain IEMs if you insert them quickly or take them out, can also happen with same IEMs if you get a very good seal and slightly move IEMs while they are in your ear (this second part never happened to me and I wouldn't be able to live with that). Driver flex is said to be generally safe and I haven't seen anyone damaging a membrane because of the flex. This usually only happens with IEMs that don't have a front vent - for example iBasso's IT01 although considered one of the best IEMs around 100$ has a driver flex (and it even has a small front vent), my RT-1 has driver flex, Sony MH1c has it - all of these sound amazing and build quality is overall superb on all of them (not owner of IT01). Heck, a few people had driver flex with Sennheiser ie800 which has an elaborate venting mechanism around which the whole IEM was designed.

I also experience driver flex with earbuds if worn without foams and pushed in the canal creating a seal - this only happens when pressed not when normally worn.


And finally: If this issue with Nameless is making them useless for you and you are willing to try something, first attempt should be this: Just opening front cover and closing it again, simple as that.
This isn't a guaranteed fix. What you do is try to separate front plastic cover from metal body - it is glued to one another plus there is friction (you won't need glue to close them back). Be careful, you mustn't just yank them apart as the driver in the front plastic cover might not be glued enough and it might want to come out - if you are not careful, the membrane of the driver could potentially remain in the front cover while the rest of driver is coming out and result in damaged coil wires. Here is my EMX500 opened + driver removed, Nameless should look similar inside. It might be impossible to open them up with just hands, I used a knife to kinda poke into the seam and slowly worked my way around until it could be opened with hands/nails.

Spoiler: EMX500

 

[bsoplinger]

I have seen speculation that driver flex can shorten the life of the driver because it is mechanically stressing the driver. Personally I think that since the drivers are designed to move that unless the movement from the flex is so extreme that the diaphragm is moved beyond design limits this is just idle speculation and the fact that some people assume the worst about situations. Just presenting an alternative view on driver flex not expounding or supporting the view.

 

[xanlamin]

Maybe contact the seller and see if they'll replace it under warranty?

I did but seller said no warranty

 

[CYoung234]

My EMI CI-880 crapped out after 3 months' of usage. Does anyone know of any deal for it? The cheapest I can find is about $20 on AliExpress.

Let me guess - the left driver / earpiece? My first one did that, and the seller (Amazon) sent me a new pair no questions asked. They are still going strong. I think the E-MI cables are their weak link, so be gentle!

 

[NeonHD]

By the way, I have made summary scores for all IEM's on Approear, The Phonograph and Audiobudget.

The results on 10 scale are:
1. 9,4 - T2 and KR25D - 9 eur
2. 9,2 - X41M and HM7 - 4 eur
3. KZ: 8,9 - ED9 ( 7 eur) and ZST (10 eur); 8,8 - ZSE (5 eur) and ZS3 (7 eur); ATR - 8,5 (3 eur).

E6(6 eur), W1 Pro (6 eur), RM S1 Pro (8 eur) are ranked by The Phonograph only. Could any of these IEM's be in the first group too?

Remax d610 (7 eur), Superlux HD381 (10 eur) and KZ EDR2 (3 eur) have the lower scores (~8).

On extremely small budget the best toys are: X41M (eq), HM7 (eq), ZSE, ATR, EDR2.

I honestly would not base any of my decisions on buying IEMs based on the ratings given by ThePhonograph, Aproear, or even Audiobudget.

Most of the five-star/top-rated Chi-fi I bought based from these sites had turned out to be my least favorite ones and I ended up selling them all on my local classifieds. Some of their sound descriptions are just totally off from what I personally hear.

The lesson here is that reviews are like personality tests, both give out very vague and sometimes inaccurate information. We should only use them as a rough guideline and not as a way to find our "true" self, or in this case our true tastes in sound.

P.S. Just to give you a sense of my discrepancy between the reviewer's rating, I sold the KR25D, ZSE, EDR2, ATR, and the X41M, all of which are listed on your 10 scale based from all three sites. Kinda ironic right?

 

[stryed]

I honestly would not base any of my decisions on buying IEMs based on the ratings given by ThePhonograph, Aproear, or even Audiobudget.

Most of the five-star/top-rated Chi-fi I bought based from these sites had turned out to be my least favorite ones and I ended up selling them all on my local classifieds. Some of their sound descriptions are just totally off from what I personally hear.

The lesson here is that reviews are like personality tests, both give out very vague and sometimes inaccurate information. We should only use them as a rough guideline and not as a way to find our "true" self, or in this case our true tastes in sound.

P.S. Just to give you a sense of my discrepancy between the reviewer's rating, I sold the KR25D, ZSE, EDR2, ATR, and the X41M, all of which are listed on your 10 scale based from all three sites. Kinda ironic right?

I apply a grain of salt to everything. Their reviews turned out helpful but was indeed very disappointed in the ZSE although it is comfy and if you have nothing else it is a whole lot better than an emergency type old sony or nobrand ear phone. I think they take into account price range (value) a bit too much. Sometimes, an extra 20 eu is worth it.

I still vouch for the KZ5 which was heavily rated on Aproear, and even with my IT01 I still enjoy it.

All is subjective, and even more so with IEMs where tips play such an important role.

 

[VShaft]

Driver flex is annoying thing most of all.

I've only experienced it on my PMV (and my very first chi-fi, the Awei ES-Q9). On the Awei it didn't bother me because the thing was so cheap (and bad-sounding overall), but it did irk me on the PMV - especially because that IEMs got 2 front vents. I wasn't exactly worrying that the drivers would get damaged, but that crackling sound every time I put in the ear... plus, it gives you the feeling that you're damaging something. But mostly it was annoyance. I still don't understand how I got rid of it by actually sealing one of the vents... but hey., I'm not complaining

P.S. Never knew earbuds could suffer from driver flex, too. And rattling! Yeah, years before, when I was in elementary and high school, and when IEMs where not so wide-spread I've experienced this "rattling" from just about any earbud I've ever tried - Sony, Sennheiser, Philips, you name it. Actually thought this was a "feature" of earbuds...

 

[LordZero]

I apply a grain of salt to everything. Their reviews turned out helpful but was indeed very disappointed in the ZSE although it is comfy and if you have nothing else it is a whole lot better than an emergency type old sony or nobrand ear phone. I think they take into account price range (value) a bit too much. Sometimes, an extra 20 eu is worth it.

I still vouch for the KZ5 which was heavily rated on Aproear, and even with my IT01 I still enjoy it.

All is subjective, and even more so with IEMs where tips play such an important role.

I bought the zs6 since almost every site raves about it and turn out to be my least favourite iem I ever tried, on the other hand the E2000 are pretty good.

 

[vladstef]

Before I knew what driver flex was and before I had anything but cheapest of IEMs I though that driver flex was actually my eardrum reacting to pressure and was kinda afraid of damaging my ears. Funny how hard it is to pinpoint stuff when it comes to audio, there are all kinds of sensory illusions involved, you really need to understand quite a bit about drivers/air/sound/ear anatomy etc. before you can start to grasp what things exactly are and how it is that you are hearing and perceiving what you are.

 

[NymPHONOmaniac]

This is some QC issue on Nameless (I think), membrane is probably dislodged slightly. This is a very common issue with EMX500, people call it "rattling" - not distortion. If it were distortion you'd hear it on both sides plus rattling just happens all of a sudden and is very loud while distortion creeps up as you increase volume.

Driver flex happens when there is way too much air pressure on the driver's membrane and it literally moves the membrane from the resting position, creating a tin foil crackling sound. This happens with certain IEMs if you insert them quickly or take them out, can also happen with same IEMs if you get a very good seal and slightly move IEMs while they are in your ear (this second part never happened to me and I wouldn't be able to live with that). Driver flex is said to be generally safe and I haven't seen anyone damaging a membrane because of the flex. This usually only happens with IEMs that don't have a front vent - for example iBasso's IT01 although considered one of the best IEMs around 100$ has a driver flex (and it even has a small front vent), my RT-1 has driver flex, Sony MH1c has it - all of these sound amazing and build quality is overall superb on all of them (not owner of IT01). Heck, a few people had driver flex with Sennheiser ie800 which has an elaborate venting mechanism around which the whole IEM was designed.

I also experience driver flex with earbuds if worn without foams and pushed in the canal creating a seal - this only happens when pressed not when normally worn.


And finally: If this issue with Nameless is making them useless for you and you are willing to try something, first attempt should be this: Just opening front cover and closing it again, simple as that.
This isn't a guaranteed fix. What you do is try to separate front plastic cover from metal body - it is glued to one another plus there is friction (you won't need glue to close them back). Be careful, you mustn't just yank them apart as the driver in the front plastic cover might not be glued enough and it might want to come out - if you are not careful, the membrane of the driver could potentially remain in the front cover while the rest of driver is coming out and result in damaged coil wires. Here is my EMX500 opened + driver removed, Nameless should look similar inside. It might be impossible to open them up with just hands, I used a knife to kinda poke into the seam and slowly worked my way around until it could be opened with hands/nails.

Spoiler: EMX500

Wow thanks for this detailed info
...I don't know if its because im french and when it come to subtle description its harder to understand in english...but im still confuse about driverflex even if I surely encounter it with some of my IEM in the past. I know that IEM when push to fast can make some air pressure like when we block our ears with water and must unblock it.
Must likely the rattling sound, wich is not full time and just happen sporadically, is something with QC of driver. But i'm not sure to know how to open these and don't have soldering iron right now (MUST buy one!)
I encouter this with the MRZ Tomahawk as well, so it make 2 buds to repair!
SO 2 part housing isn't hardly glue? You just twist to the point to being able to open it if I understand correctly?

Oh, and yeah, EMX500 too create strange sound sometime, must likely rattling, I was thinking its cable inside housing that vibrate and create that cause hes too loose. hum.

 

[NymPHONOmaniac]

I bought the zs6 since almost every site raves about it and turn out to be my least favourite iem I ever tried, on the other hand the E2000 are pretty good.

Yep, ZS6 is my least favorite of whole ZS line, big winner is ZS5 V1 after V2 after.....ZS6 with the right audio source and right music....what a capricious grumpy IEM this ZS6!

 

[Otto Motor]

I honestly would not base any of my decisions on buying IEMs based on the ratings given by ThePhonograph, Aproear, or even Audiobudget.

P.S. Just to give you a sense of my discrepancy between the reviewer's rating, I sold the KR25D, ZSE, EDR2, ATR, and the X41M, all of which are listed on your 10 scale based from all three sites. Kinda ironic right?

I read between the lines of these reviewers. Some admit that their reviews are based on their taste only. For example aproar likes treble which I find torturing. Phonograph and audiobudget leave out key features such as soundstage, separation, resolution, and layering...they only give you information on partial aspects (bass, mids, treble) but not on the whole.

The most comprehensive reviews to me were by Hifi Chris. He gave you the whole story and he separated his technical observations from his taste. His review of the KZ KS5 was spot on (good for the price, not more not less; distant, hollow mids), for example. I would have not bought them if I had read the review first.

All of the earphones you don't like I find quite good out of the many more I own. You just have a different taste and have to go with the technical parts of the review in order to find out, which ones you like. What is your taste?

In the end, the art lies in interpreting the reviewer. Even a poor review is better than no review.

 

[Santojob]

Hello friends

This last year I bought several iems, the most recommended reading your impressions and others (Swing IE800, **** XBA-6in1, KZ ZS6, EINSEAR T2, MEMT X6, I-INTO i8), I really like the bass of the I-INTO i8 (I think I'm a basshead). I have in mind to buy one of the following models:

- Z5000
- Lker i8
- TIN Audio T2


What do you advise me to have the best bass of those three models? or another model that you recommend me ....
I listen to everything, but preferably Folk, Folk-Rock, Americana, Singer-Songwriter, Alt-Country, Acoustic, Vocal & Others

Regards

 

[vladstef]

Wow thanks for this detailed info
...I don't know if its because im french and when it come to subtle description its harder to understand in english...but im still confuse about driverflex even if I surely encounter it with some of my IEM in the past. I know that IEM when push to fast can make some air pressure like when we block our ears with water and must unblock it.
Must likely the rattling sound, wich is not full time and just happen sporadically, is something with QC of driver. But i'm not sure to know how to open these and don't have soldering iron right now (MUST buy one!)
I encouter this with the MRZ Tomahawk as well, so it make 2 buds to repair!
SO 2 part housing isn't hardly glue? You just twist to the point to being able to open it if I understand correctly?

Oh, and yeah, EMX500 too create strange sound sometime, must likely rattling, I was thinking its cable inside housing that vibrate and create that cause hes too loose. hum.

Driver flex sounds like crunching something made out of tin foil, it's kinda high pitched in a way and completely different to any of the other sounds.
You don't need to solder anything in order to open earbuds, cables will remain connected to the driver. EMX and other buds aren't rattling due to cable (tried it in different shells and cables), just that the driver isn't properly seated in the front plastic cover or the membrane has pressure on the sides/back that isn't adequate. Also, don't twist the front cover, ever, just pull apart carefully - twisting can damage solders on the back or even worse, spin the driver (if it's poorly glued to the front cover) which can break the coil wires connecting driver and membrane and this is not fixable. Essentially, you can only break the driver by breaking these thin wires that go to the membrane and the only way to do that is by twisting the driver in the front cover or by pulling out the driver out of front cover - sometimes the driver can be pulled out while the membrane is stuck resulting in broken coil wires. When you are opening earbuds, try to open them while knowing that as soon as it pops out, you need to keep the 2 parts really close to one another - if the driver has started coming out of the front cover, this way we make sure that it doesn't fully come out and break coil wires.

You should open rattling side of Nameless, use a knife to go around the seam, gently poking in order to break the glue. At some point it will become possible to use fingers and separate front cover, obviously this requires force + being careful to stop once it pops out.

 

[Vin$ent]

So, when does the new version of Z5000 come out?