[thedud3]

Short update on my story : i could partially fix the issue. By going into apk system services through ES Explorer, i could finally disable the Google Services Framework. This, at least, let me listen back to my music ! But it's still far from being completely solved as for some reason, i cannot access or download my apps through the Play Store. Sometimes the Play Store will just crash and sometimes it will keep saying 'Checking info' forever, So i never access the app library and i cannot get my apps back :/ And if i re-enable the Services Framework, then the msg error keeps again being displayed every second or so.

Note that i already tried clearing Cache and/or Data of all Google Services with no go. And neither Factory reset nor different firmware version could help so far.

I think i will try returning it for repair to my seller as it really seems there's a major issue with my device.

I want to add that i'm rather disappointed with Cayin support. The better fix i could find was just by myself. No reply at all from them in here. And through their mail support, i only had a suggestion of downgrading firmware which didn't help. I told them the issue was still here after downgrading firmware (5 days ago) and even sent them my video link above clearly showing the issue, but they didn't reply since Not only for suggesting me to disable the Framework services (which indeed partially solved the issue), but not even for just saying to send the unit back for repair ! Maybe they're still trying to investigate my issue on their end but i definitely highly doubt about it... I also sent a PM to Andykong in this forum a few days ago, but still with no reply at all so far.

Anyway, not a that-much efficient customer service if you're asking me...

@Andykong @CayinSupport

 

[Andykong]

Short update on my story : i could partially fix the issue. By going into apk system services through ES Explorer, i could finally disable the Google Services Framework. This, at least, let me listen back to my music ! But it's still far from being completely solved as for some reason, i cannot access or download my apps through the Play Store. Sometimes the Play Store will just crash and sometimes it will keep saying 'Checking info' forever, So i never access the app library and i cannot get my apps back :/ And if i re-enable the Services Framework, then the msg error keeps again being displayed every second or so.

Note that i already tried clearing Cache and/or Data of all Google Services with no go. And neither Factory reset nor different firmware version could help so far.

I think i will try returning it for repair to my seller as it really seems there's a major issue with my device.

I want to add that i'm rather disappointed with Cayin support. The better fix i could find was just by myself. No reply at all from them in here. And through their mail support, i only had a suggestion of downgrading firmware which didn't help. I told them the issue was still here after downgrading firmware (5 days ago) and even sent them my video link above clearly showing the issue, but they didn't reply since Not only for suggesting me to disable the Framework services (which indeed partially solved the issue), but not even for just saying to send the unit back for repair ! Maybe they're still trying to investigate my issue on their end but i definitely highly doubt about it... I also sent a PM to Andykong in this forum a few days ago, but still with no reply at all so far.

Anyway, not a that-much efficient customer service if you're asking me...

@Andykong @CayinSupport

Sorry for the belated response. The Cayin office and factory was closed for Chinese New Year Holiday since 19 Feb 2020, so all message after 18 Feb 5pm (+8GMT) will not be received until we re-open our office.
https://www.facebook.com/CayinAudio/photos/a.299322053812361/769402740137621/?type=3&theater

Tentatively we'll reopen on 3 Feb 2020, but the outbreak of Wuhan Acute Respiratory Syndromes has put everything into uncertain. Very likely we need to extend the New Year holiday in order to delay crowded travellers at the peak of the outbreak.

Regarding your situation, our advise is to:

1. Take out all microSD card
2. Double wipe
3. Reinstall firmware

If the problem remain unsolved, we suggest you send the N5ii back to factory. In our experience, this is caused by a serious software crash or dirty app that plant certain routine into hidden system area. We'll flash the bootloader and reinstall the firmware with our development tools, so far we can 100% recover all the faulty units we have received.

 

[originalsnuffy]

Glad to see Andy posting here. Much appreciated.

If anybody ever comes up with a workaround to get Amazon HD music to work on this device please share your methods.

 

[Andykong]

Glad to see Andy posting here. Much appreciated.

If anybody ever comes up with a workaround to get Amazon HD music to work on this device please share your methods.

After I resigned my full-time role from Cayin and become their consultant, I didn't have the luxury to participate in all the forum discussion as the good old days. Anyway I feel home when I can check out the Cayin threads occasionally and run into familiar names like you, and I am glad that the online Cayin community has been very accommodative on these changes.

 

[thedud3]

Thanks for your reply @Andykong.

Sorry for the belated response. The Cayin office and factory was closed for Chinese New Year Holiday since 19 Feb 2020, so all message after 18 Feb 5pm (+8GMT) will not be received until we re-open our office.

I guess you meant January (and not February) in your text above, but i got the whole idea of Cayin close period.

Now i'm again updating a bit my story :

After a new double wipe (maybe the 3rd one if i'm not mistaken), the unit boot up corrrectly and wasn't showing the persistent Google framework error anymore ! I updated to latest fw v1.7en with sucess. I also finally could re-setup my Google account and even started downloading and installing a few apps !

BUT, when trying to install Deezer, this one asked me to update Google Play services (or it wouldn't work).

And there again, trying to update Google Play was a real pain (several freezes + force shutdown and reboot required). And the most annoying is that even when rebooting, most of the time, the unit won't start properly and will freeze during boot up on the 'Never be the same again' screen.

Now after many attempts, i finally could update Google Play, but i am again stucked when trying to enter my Deezer account info (unit freezes again).

Now even without taking care of Deezer or any 3rd part app, the unit is still defective many times.

I uploaded another video showing multiple issues i'm experiencing here (please enable subtitles as it explains what i'm doing) :



I'm also adding a few pictures showing quite scary crash screens i have sometimes :



Last part is that i have been calling my online shop which told me that my 12 months warranty expired (sure, but since only 1 month !). They were quite saying that the unit might not be possible to repair, and that the costs would be huge and that i would better buy a new product where they might offer me a special discount.

But i told them i was quite surprised that i was supposed to throw a nearly 600€ unit to trash after just 13 month of use ('Make our Planet Great Again' ....).
Besides, if i wanted this, i might have instead bought a 100€ product !

At the end they told me they will try to check with Cayin if my unit can be taken under warranty.

Still though if anybody (like Andy or anyone else) could advise me on debug steps i'd be really happy. I'm not expert in Linux/Unix and don't know how flashing bootloader could be achieved, but i learn quite fast, and maybe someone could assist me remotely in the necessary steps ?

I'm really afraid that returning the unit to China might take really long, especially considering the actual Wuhan troubles...

So any help would still be greatly appreciated...

 

[originalsnuffy]

I think Cayin recently posted that they are able to do a special wipe if necessary. My sense there was no charge for that. Now I have no idea if that will fix your issue but its worth exploring.

 

[Andykong]

Thanks for your reply @Andykong.



I guess you meant January (and not February) in your text above, but i got the whole idea of Cayin close period.

Now i'm again updating a bit my story :

After a new double wipe (maybe the 3rd one if i'm not mistaken), the unit boot up corrrectly and wasn't showing the persistent Google framework error anymore ! I updated to latest fw v1.7en with sucess. I also finally could re-setup my Google account and even started downloading and installing a few apps !

BUT, when trying to install Deezer, this one asked me to update Google Play services (or it wouldn't work).

And there again, trying to update Google Play was a real pain (several freezes + force shutdown and reboot required). And the most annoying is that even when rebooting, most of the time, the unit won't start properly and will freeze during boot up on the 'Never be the same again' screen.

Now after many attempts, i finally could update Google Play, but i am again stucked when trying to enter my Deezer account info (unit freezes again).

Now even without taking care of Deezer or any 3rd part app, the unit is still defective many times.

I uploaded another video showing multiple issues i'm experiencing here (please enable subtitles as it explains what i'm doing) :



I'm also adding a few pictures showing quite scary crash screens i have sometimes :



Last part is that i have been calling my online shop which told me that my 12 months warranty expired (sure, but since only 1 month !). They were quite saying that the unit might not be possible to repair, and that the costs would be huge and that i would better buy a new product where they might offer me a special discount.

But i told them i was quite surprised that i was supposed to throw a nearly 600€ unit to trash after just 13 month of use ('Make our Planet Great Again' ....).
Besides, if i wanted this, i might have instead bought a 100 product !

At the end they told me they will try to check with Cayin if my unit can be taken under warranty.

Still though if anybody (like Andy or anyone else) could advise me on debug steps i'd be really happy. I'm not expert in Linux/Unix and don't know how flashing bootloader could be achieved, but i learn quite fast, and maybe someone could assist me remotely in the necessary steps ?

I'm really afraid that returning the unit to China might take really long, especially considering the actual Wuhan troubles...

So any help would still be greatly appreciated...

1. The unit will not be repaired under warranty because it is 13 month old already.
2. The unit is definitely repairable but you need to send it back to China.
3. The repair cost is not high, so trying to fight for "free warranty" is wasting your time IMHO.
4. the biggest cost is sending it to China, sending it back to you, and the potential import tax consequence in China and in your country
5. We do not accept mailing in from customer directly, you have to send the player back to the seller and ask them to send it to us for paid repair. In a lot of case, when customer send in repair items to china, they don't know how to handle the import tax declaration in China, end up you need to pay for your import tax. Likewise, we ship FOB to our international dealer, so we don't deal with your custom system at all, if we send it back without proper instruction, you might end up paying a big sum to your custom office.
6. Not all software problem are user-repairable, we recommend you to send in the device before causing more damage.
7. The N5ii and N5iiS are operated under a fully customised Android system, the regular Android tools might or might not be compatible with N5ii/N5iiS so we don't advice users to flash the bootloader, this should be done with our own development tool only.

 

[thedud3]

3. The repair cost is not high, so trying to fight for "free warranty" is wasting your time IMHO.

4. the biggest cost is sending it to China, sending it back to you, and the potential import tax consequence in China and in your country

Ok so if i read correctly, the total repair cost (including the sending fees that i will of course have to pay also) might be quite important at the end.

If i have to pay, even 'just' say 100€ (and i have no idea if it could be more or less), then forgive me but i definitely think it's worth trying to ask a shop or manufacturer for being taken under waranty. Especially considering that it's not 1 or 2 years after warranty end, but just 1 month.
These are things that many other shops/manufacturers are considering in order to keep their customers satisfied, and also so that the customers will spread good words about their company and customer service.

i will add that i never made an intensive usage of the unit, using it far from every day but rather a few times a week, and sometimes even just a few times a month. Besides, it never went out of its leather case protection, never felt down, the back plastic protection is still here and the screen is still in perfect shape. So i'd rather say that i'm someone who is really taking much care of his materials. This for saying that it's not like someone who would use it every day and would had it dropped on the floor or whatever. I would rather understand having troubles with the unit after such usage, but it's definitely not my case.

When i bought this quite-expensive product (and not a basic 100€ one), i actually didn't planned to add cost repair every year or so :/

 

[noverbeck]

Ok so if i read correctly, the total repair cost (including the sending fees that i will of course have to pay also) might be quite important at the end.

If i have to pay, even 'just' say 100€ (and i have no idea if it could be more or less), then forgive me but i definitely think it's worth trying to ask a shop or manufacturer for being taken under waranty. Especially considering that it's not 1 or 2 years after warranty end, but just 1 month.
These are things that many other shops/manufacturers are considering in order to keep their customers satisfied, and also so that the customers will spread good words about their company and customer service.

i will add that i never made an intensive usage of the unit, using it far from every day but rather a few times a week, and sometimes even just a few times a month. Besides, it never went out of its leather case protection, never felt down, the back plastic protection is still here and the screen is still in perfect shape. So i'd rather say that i'm someone who is really taking much care of his materials. This for saying that it's not like someone who would use it every day and would had it dropped on the floor or whatever. I would rather understand having troubles with the unit after such usage, but it's definitely not my case.

When i bought this quite-expensive product (and not a basic 100€ one), i actually didn't planned to add cost repair every year or so :/

These are my sentiments exactly. How can a device barely last past 1 yr for the asking price. Why are so many failing at this time point. There is a whole host of issue from hardware to software. Sure Andy tries his best but really it seems more to be just consoling the user on their purchase. Who's to say the "fix" works. And should one issue be solved, there seems basic promised functionality that will not ever come to fruition.

Needless to say I have since moved on to other units, as it seems Cayin has as well with the N6 and N8....

Extremely frustrating and I hope you find a DIY'er to help you sort it out.

Apologies if this comes across as a knock against Andy, it's not meant to be. Good on him to try to right the wrongs and for his dedication to the consumer. However, there seems to be more underlying issues than cannot be fixed, issues that would in most fields, at least my line of work, would lead to the device being pulled from market for failure to function in the intended way. This is not only a problem with Cayin but our society where we have begun to accept "bugs" and "development" post release as the norm. Furthermore the echo chamber that has been created seems to give kudos to manufacturers who "update" their products with functionality that was promised in the beginning but not not timed at release. This should not be, the functionality should be there from the beginning. It would help avoid issues like this.

 

[Andykong]

Ok so if i read correctly, the total repair cost (including the sending fees that i will of course have to pay also) might be quite important at the end.

If i have to pay, even 'just' say 100€ (and i have no idea if it could be more or less), then forgive me but i definitely think it's worth trying to ask a shop or manufacturer for being taken under waranty. Especially considering that it's not 1 or 2 years after warranty end, but just 1 month.
These are things that many other shops/manufacturers are considering in order to keep their customers satisfied, and also so that the customers will spread good words about their company and customer service.

i will add that i never made an intensive usage of the unit, using it far from every day but rather a few times a week, and sometimes even just a few times a month. Besides, it never went out of its leather case protection, never felt down, the back plastic protection is still here and the screen is still in perfect shape. So i'd rather say that i'm someone who is really taking much care of his materials. This for saying that it's not like someone who would use it every day and would had it dropped on the floor or whatever. I would rather understand having troubles with the unit after such usage, but it's definitely not my case.

When i bought this quite-expensive product (and not a basic 100€ one), i actually didn't planned to add cost repair every year or so :/

I understand you have taken care of your player, but right now the problem is NOT a hardware failure, so it shouldn't have anything to do with dropping it on the floor or heavy duty usage that cause the buttons to ware out, nothing like that. We can't explain why your player run into a software failure at this level, it happens occasionally, but not very often. We know how to repair it, but we can't trace the failure backward.

Try to work with your retailer, if you are buying from a local dealer, there is a good chance that the total cost will be lower but you probably need to wait longer. If the dealer send several repair items back to China in one batch, the mailing cost will be shared and they know how to get away from the import tax. Likewise if we send the DAP back to the dealer with their next product shipment, this will also lower down the shipping significantly or completely absorbed, depends on the size of the shipment.

So where are you located, and who did you buy it from?

 

[thedud3]

So where are you located, and who did you buy it from?

I'm in France and my online shop is https://www.son-video.com .

They told me they are the only Cayin importer for france and I am already in touch with them through mail and wait for their answer about having it repaired under warranty or not (they are supposed to ask Cayin about this at first i guess).

I really hope this can be sorted out without requiring too much time nor money because this is so far a really bad end-user experience i'm having here.

Also just another remark about warranty date being past, i remember i already had a similar issue and actually posted it in here :

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...al-audio-player.862763/page-238#post-14786576

You'll notice that the 1st similar booting issue with my unit apparently came out in February 2019, meaning just 2 months after my initial purchase (i bought it on December 4th, 2018 btw).
At this time, it could restart properly after a few restart attemps as far as i remember, and it even didn't required a double wipe.
But still, this might have been an alert about my now quite-permanent issues...

 

[Slater91]

I'm in France and my online shop is https://www.son-video.com .

They told me they are the only Cayin importer for france and I am already in touch with them through mail and wait for their answer about having it repaired under warranty or not (they are supposed to ask Cayin about this at first i guess).

I really hope this can be sorted out without requiring too much time nor money because this is so far a really bad end-user experience i'm having here.

Also just another remark about warranty date being past, i remember i already had a similar issue and actually posted it in here :

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...al-audio-player.862763/page-238#post-14786576

You'll notice that the 1st similar booting issue with my unit apparently came out in February 2019, meaning just 2 months after my initial purchase (i bought it on December 4th, 2018 btw).
At this time, it could restart properly after a few restart attemps as far as i remember, and it even didn't required a double wipe.
But still, this might have been an alert about my now quite-permanent issues...

You are entitled to two years warranty in Europe. It's even in their terms and conditions (unless my French went so bad I don't understand it anymore): "L'action résultant du défaut de conformité se prescrit par deux ans à compter de la délivrance du bien". The expense to repair the device is on them, not on you, since this was not caused by your use of the device. I would suggest you to ask them to pay for the shipping as they should as the warranty is still valid as you bought it in EU and you reside in EU.

 

[thedud3]

You are entitled to two years warranty in Europe. It's even in their terms and conditions (unless my French went so bad I don't understand it anymore): "L'action résultant du défaut de conformité se prescrit par deux ans à compter de la délivrance du bien". The expense to repair the device is on them, not on you, since this was not caused by your use of the device. I would suggest you to ask them to pay for the shipping as they should as the warranty is still valid as you bought it in EU and you reside in EU.

Thanks for your input Slater91, i was already aware of this 2 year warranty in EU and i actually mentionned it to my retailer yesterday. But of course, the guy was claiming that it couldn't work for my case as the product was initially working as expected. Now the thing is that i have not much to do rather than expecting these people to be a bit comprehensive, as we could argue a long time with legal terms, but i doubt i will consider to sue them for this kind of issue (the costs of the procedure would defnitely be higher than the device's price).

The thing which is also kind of beyond me is this statement :

We can't explain why your player run into a software failure at this level, it happens occasionally, but not very often

It's clearly stated here that software failure might happen (even if it's not often), result in my case being unit becoming quite unusable, end-user cannot fix this by factory reset, and still, Cayin won't take this on their charge because warranty has expired.

So basically, as soon as your device is more than 12 months old, it can suddenly become more or less dead (without you doing anyhting else than using it), and you have to live with it or pay for fixing the issue. This is kinda scary if you're asking me...

IMHO such major software failure shouldn't just ever occur with product sent over the market. And of course, if it still happens for whatever reason, a full factory reset should definitely always fix it. And at the end, if nothing works, as the issue isn't end-user related, it should always been taken in charge by manufacturer, no matter how old it is.

 

[thedud3]

Thinking about it, i wonder if the main issue with this unit wouldn't be that there are actually no way of performing a 'true' factory reset ?

I mean each time i performed a double wipe, clock time was still correct (not hours of course, due to my different time zone, but minutes were definitely always correct), and i also noticed that internal storage wasn't formatted (latest fw 1.7 zip file i previously copied was still here).

Isn't it weird that clock time is always correct ??? How could it be, without connecting to network for checking current time. Wifi isn't enabled when i perform a double wipe and i have to re-enter my wifi info (which sounds logical). But then, how come the clock can be correct at start-up without the device being connected to network at first ??? And also, why isn't the internal storage fully formatted during a factory reset ? I guess necessary original files to be restored should be preserved in some hidden partition, but then, why aren't the visible files to end-user fully erased ?

Or maybe it's just my unit which would not be performing a full factory reset ? Or there's some automatic restore of previous working session when crash is detected ? Or am i just missing something ?

Maybe @Andykong can clarify this ?

 

[Andykong]

Thinking about it, i wonder if the main issue with this unit wouldn't be that there are actually no way of performing a 'true' factory reset ?

I mean each time i performed a double wipe, clock time was still correct (not hours of course, due to my different time zone, but minutes were definitely always correct), and i also noticed that internal storage wasn't formatted (latest fw 1.7 zip file i previously copied was still here).

Isn't it weird that clock time is always correct ??? How could it be, without connecting to network for checking current time. Wifi isn't enabled when i perform a double wipe and i have to re-enter my wifi info (which sounds logical). But then, how come the clock can be correct at start-up without the device being connected to network at first ??? And also, why isn't the internal storage fully formatted during a factory reset ? I guess necessary original files to be restored should be preserved in some hidden partition, but then, why aren't the visible files to end-user fully erased ?

Or maybe it's just my unit which would not be performing a full factory reset ? Or there's some automatic restore of previous working session when crash is detected ? Or am i just missing something ?

Maybe @Andykong can clarify this ?

I have given you the best advice I could, sending the player back to factory for repair is the best option in my opinion. I have also analysis the cost factors involved, repair cost is the least of your concern, you should worry about the mailing cost and tax consequence. Working with your dealer is the most productive way.

I have no idea whether the problem is unique to your personal unit or not, for question like this, you need to send the device to your dealer and ask them to verify whether you are experiencing an unique situation. This is not the platform to resolve question like this. You dealer is always your first point of contact when come to warranty claim and repair service, not the public platform like HeadFi forum. I am not a software engineer, and I have stated clearly in my signature that "For all repair and warranty, please email to service@cayin.cn", so I hope you don't expect I can provide detail technical solution base on the symptoms you described.

You tried to back track the problem back to Feb 2019 but according to your post on August 2019, your unit "seems like being back from repair ! It's so much of a pleasure to finally have a responsive device re this play/pause function !!!" so I assume your previous issues has been recovered at some point. This is tiring and I do not see the productivity of further discussion. I have no further comment to your case, please contact your dealer and let them take care of your case.