[Andykong]

Cool now what about the USB DAC delay that ruins that and the unstable UI?

Bugger, I thought I'd found a DAP finally after weeks of looking at the £100-200 bracket... only to find out that it's USB DAC doesn't work. I know it's a portable music player first of all, but it's a feature that a lot of new ones, even cheaper, have. If it's an option then it should work!

basically they prioritize the sound quality rather than the USB synchronization timing something, it's been discussed several pages ago

I think we need to clarify the USB Audio issue.

When I said we are trying to improve the USB Audio performance through firmware and Driver update, I was referred to the noise and stability issue when N5ii or N5iiS works as USB DAC.

On the other hand, the delay is NOT a bug. The USB DAC of N5ii and N5iiS has been advertised and documented as operated in Asynchronous transmission mode. This is a natural design choice when we design an audio product for high fidelity playback and we have explained the issue upfronted, please check out explanation HERE.

A lot of users complain that when used as USB DAC, N5ii exhibits delays and/or cannot synchronize with the video signal on the computer. This will affect the user experience when lip-syn (movie, MTV) or special sound effect (computer game) is an important feature. Unfortunately this problem cannot and will not be modified through firmware upgrade.

N5ii is a digital audio player and we put audio performance as our primarily objective. To ensure we have best possible USB Audio performance, N5ii operats in Asynchronized USB transmission, I shall quote the following explanation on asynchronous USB for discussion purpose:

"Asynchronous USB (not to be confused with asynchronous samplerate conversion) uses a clock housed near the dac (usually in the external dac’s casing) and allows it to drive the converter directly, thereby not relying on the instable computer’s clock. It is called asynchronous because the DAC’s master clock isn’t synchronized directly to any clocks within the computer. Instead, the DAC is controlled by a (potentially high-precision) fixed-frequency clock. This clock controls the datastream from the computer to a buffer near the DA converter."

I would like to draw your attention to two issues in this explanation:

1. the DAC’s master clock isn’t synchronized directly to the clock of the digital source (a computer in most of the cases)
2. This controls the datastream from the computer to a buffer near the DA converter

In other word, the audio signal processing is deliberately "disconnected" from the computer clock but the video display remain connected to the computer clock, so the video and audio are not synchronized by nature. In addition, we need to create a data buffer in the audio circuit in order to hold the audio datastream from the computer, and the buffer will inevitably caused delays in the audio signal with reference to the non-buffered video signal. For the record, IEE1394 Firewire was considered the only acceptable option to connect a computer device to an high end audio back in the 90s, USB was not consider acceptable as those were the time when USB connection was operated in synchronized mode and the extremely high jitter and occasional drop out is consider unacceptable by audiophile. The Asynchronized USB transmission has solved these inherited problem and gradually replaced the IEEE1394 Firewire connection in high-end audio, it become the necessary (but not sufficient) criteria to use USB for high quality audio application.

If you want to cross check with other audio manufacturers, the following video from Cambridge Audio explained the various options (synchronous, adaptive and asynchronous) briefly.



Additional reference are available HERE, HERE and HERE. I hope you can accept the industrial consent that Asynchronized USB transmission is the appropriate choice for a Digital Audio Player.

 

[KwyjiboVenneri]

you can choose the download location of your Spotify music, haven't tried Tidal

Thanks!

 

[Andykong]

Interesting - how does Spotify behave on the player? I anticipate some occassional use of Apple Music via the app rather than downloading tracks - is the player able to cope relatively well?

what kind of DAP are you looking for? for me I was looking for a Spotify player, the other DAP at that time was the Hiby R6, but it only had 32GB for it's internal memory, I tried to put the downloaded files on the SD card but experienced the re-download issue

Spoiler

the perfect player would be the Cayin sound + the R6 UI/UX lol haven't tried the FiiO M9 though

Yes, Spotify works jist fine, just put the offline/download data on the internal memory

I'm thinking about getting this but want to know if you're able to choose the download location of your Tidal and Spotify music? I'll really only be downloading my music from those services and if i can only download them to the internal memory then this will kind of suck :/

Thanks guys!

This (Spotify support) is probably the most frequently asked question in this thread.

As explained by fellow N5iiS users, online streaming works fine, but offline mode is a mix experience, and leans towards the disappointed side unfortunately.

With Spotify, you can specify the storage location for offline playlist, but we recommend you to stick with internal memory. If you store the offline playlist on TF cards, the moment when Spotify can't detect the playlist for whatever reason, it will assume the device is not available and unsynchronised the playlist, meaning even when the music files remain in TF card, the Spotify App will ignore it and you won't be able to retrieve or playback these music files. Base on the feedback from Spotify community, you'll run into the same problem if you store the offline playlist on the TF card of your mobile phone instead of the internal memory.

For Tidal, you can't specify the storage location because for unknown reason, Tidal can't detect the TF cards of N5ii or N5iiS. We have released all the necessary right to third party applications (otherwise Spotify won't be able to access the TF cards) already but Tidal didn't get this right. The good news is, Tidal won't synchronise your playlist "accidentally".

For previous discussion of the Spotify offline issue, please refer to HERE and HERE.

 

[Andykong]

Hiby link working on N5II with hiby music app
Probably Hiby updated their app and now it is working
you can try it

Yes I can!!! Hiby Link can switch as "Server" and "Client" so N5ii as "Server" and my phone as "Client". So I can control Cayin N5ii using my phone and can see the song in Cayin N5ii via my phone. So cool. Understandable concept! Great.

So they updated the app to make it work on the N5ii, that's great!

this is a nice surprise

Yeap, a big surprise to me as well, try to reach out to HiBy team buty they were on holiday already, I want to find out if this new version of HIByMusic will work for both Android and iOS. Looks like I have to wait till the end of Chunyun.

 

[Andykong]

I had music already loaded onto a 256 gb card and a 200 gb microSD card for my Opus 1S. I can also load each card separately to the computer with a card reader and edit/load music via jriver. I can update the firmware on the N5ii via the wifi on the device, using chrome. I just can't connect the device to the computer and use the internal drive.

I am not sure if this is applicable for you. I carry a lot of TF cards with me when I attend shows and event, and frequently I need to prepare 5 to 10 DAPs as show demo units within a very short time. One of my usual practise is to make sure each and every DAP has the same set of demo tracks in its internal memory, and for N5ii and N5iiS, the quickest way to do that is to copy folders from TF card to internal memory with the ES Explorer app pre-installed in the DAP. If I remember it right, copying file from PC to internal memory will average at 6~8 Mbps, but copying from TF card to Internal memory will average at 10-12 Mbps. For the record, my laptop can connect to N5ii or N5iiS and access the internal memory reliably, I just prefer the TF card to Internal memory options because I can copy multiple demo units at the same time and I can move the units around in the middle of copying.

 

[Pete7]

I am not sure if this is applicable for you. I carry a lot of TF cards with me when I attend shows and event, and frequently I need to prepare 5 to 10 DAPs as show demo units within a very short time. One of my usual practise is to make sure each and every DAP has the same set of demo tracks in its internal memory, and for N5ii and N5iiS, the quickest way to do that is to copy folders from TF card to internal memory with the ES Explorer app pre-installed in the DAP. If I remember it right, copying file from PC to internal memory will average at 6~8 Mbps, but copying from TF card to Internal memory will average at 10-12 Mbps. For the record, my laptop can connect to N5ii or N5iiS and access the internal memory reliably, I just prefer the TF card to Internal memory options because I can copy multiple demo units at the same time and I can move the units around in the middle of copying.

I didn't realize copying from an inserted microSD card to the internal memory was even possible. I will definitely give it a try. Thanks.

 

[dricas_007]

Just sold my N5II and got my stainless steel N5IIs. Look good. Faster response due to more ram.

 

[maira]

got my stainless steel N5IIs. Look good. Faster response due to more ram.

What about SQ?

 

[originalsnuffy]

Andy,

I know that you are running a business. And since I have only a limited personal use case for the N5II, I am okay with firmware update support pretty much coming to an end. Meaning I just play music from the micro SD cards.

But realistically the unit still has some firmware bugs and my perception is that the USB / DAC connections will also be a bit less than originally anticipated. If I recall some i5 buyers felt that a similar situation was played out for that unit.

If units come and go quickly without full support it becomes harder to consider new Cayin units. So I think that should be a consideration for your team when evaluating priorities.

 

[gazzington]

Andy,

I know that you are running a business. And since I have only a limited personal use case for the N5II, I am okay with firmware update support pretty much coming to an end. Meaning I just play music from the micro SD cards.

But realistically the unit still has some firmware bugs and my perception is that the USB / DAC connections will also be a bit less than originally anticipated. If I recall some i5 buyers felt that a similar situation was played out for that unit.

If units come and go quickly without full support it becomes harder to consider new Cayin units. So I think that should be a consideration for your team when evaluating priorities.

I fully agree. The n5iis isn't even that old. Fiio still support x5iii

 

[Andykong]

Andy,

I know that you are running a business. And since I have only a limited personal use case for the N5II, I am okay with firmware update support pretty much coming to an end. Meaning I just play music from the micro SD cards.

But realistically the unit still has some firmware bugs and my perception is that the USB / DAC connections will also be a bit less than originally anticipated. If I recall some i5 buyers felt that a similar situation was played out for that unit.

If units come and go quickly without full support it becomes harder to consider new Cayin units. So I think that should be a consideration for your team when evaluating priorities.

I didn't say we stopped supporting N5ii, I only said stop adding new features. We are still working on the next firmware update, but I don't want to offer any false hope to people suggesting new features or raising new requirements to N5ii firmware.

 

[seanwee]

@SoundDouble I don't have the production record on hand, I can roughly recall the reinforced procedure was introduced somewhat around 1700, and we have performed the reinforcement procedure to all N5ii units in our inventory. Since the N5ii was launched in China market on 30 Oct and available to International market by mid December, most of the early production batches was sold to domestic market.

I recently received a replacement unit with the serial number SLC520600759 (which I'm assuming is the 759th unit) and it also has the socket reinforcement.

So there's no need to worry about the socket being weak if you get a replacement unit from Cayin and its a pre 1700 unit. They will have done the reinforcement.

 

[Imbrie]

So, after 4 weeks my N5IIS won't power on.

@CayinSupport - is there something I could be doing i.e. a hard reset or just return the item?

 

[Imbrie]

Charged my N5iiS all night and now it won't turn on. The little light just below the volume spinner is on but the screen is black. Anyone know how to force boot the device?

EDIT: Tried to turn it on/off in Recovery Mode ( power + play/pause) and even then nothing is happening)

This has just happened to mine too. Any luck finding a resolution?

@CayinSupport; @Andykong - there are at least 3 of us experiencing this issue so some advice would be appreciated please.

 

[Metalomaniac]

I recently received a replacement unit with the serial number SLC520600759 (which I'm assuming is the 759th unit) and it also has the socket reinforcement.

So there's no need to worry about the socket being weak if you get a replacement unit from Cayin and its a pre 1700 unit. They will have done the reinforcement.

Well, that only fixed one issue with the socket. The other issue is that it becomes loose over time. I've had mine for around nine months, and it's already significantly more loose than originally, and it's getting looser and looser. My previous DAP failed due to to the same reason, so I foolishly assumed the much more expensive Cayin would have a more robust socket. It doesn't.