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Cayin iDAP-6 - versatile new desktop transport

Discussion in 'Dedicated Source Components' started by project86, Oct 1, 2017.
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  1. huangkang
    Which DAC are you using?
  2. HK_sends
    Schiit Gungnir Multibit. Also a Schiit Mjolnir 2 amp.

    -HK sends
  3. HK_sends
    Okay, I admit it...I'm a Doofus! :grimacing: Please disregard the above post about not being able to remove the SD card. I must have been a bit tired when I was checking the unit out last night. Thanks to huangkang, I tried again from a different angle and it worked fine. I'm going to try using the iDAP with coax digital and USB into my Gungnir and see which I prefer. For initial listening (via USB) with the Schiit Gumby/Moly2 driving LCD-4 headphones, I found the sound surprisingly well-balanced if not leaning a little towards brightness. I've never heard Audeze headphones sound so full on the upper mids and treble. The bass was solid but not as "present" as I am accustomed to with these cans. They sounded more like Mr. Speaker's headphone tuning, but that is definitely not a bad thing for me. Plus, I'll roll some tubes to see how the sound changes. I'm currently using a set of NOS Amperex USN-CEP 6922s.
    I'm using my tablet with the Hiby Music/Link app to control it via bluetooth.

    Thanks Cayin! This is exactly the desktop transport I always wanted!

    As far as the SD card issue, in the Air Force we used to say "Operator R-squared. Ops check: okay" (read as "operator error").:wink:

    Cheers and All the Best!:beerchug:
    -HK sends
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
  4. burdie
    1. Yes it is nice player, but it will be nicer if it is able to process DST format. Hope Cayin find a way to break the limitation on X1000 mcu
    2. Did you turn on file and printer sharing on your public profile? and did you remove password protection on file sharing?
    4. I played PCM/DSD by I2S to Pontus flawlessly.. You didn't read our previous discussion at all?
  5. Andykong
    We couldn't find Huawei Mate 10, but one of our Engineer use Huawei Honour 8, so we borrow his mobile phone to check out the problem:

    First, we make sure the WiFi is OFF

    We start to search for available BT dvices, Huawei Honour 8 is listed in the first search.

    We put the mobile phone along side our iDAP-6, the Huawei Honour 8 has iDAP-6 listed as available device, and vice versa at the iDAP-6 screen.

    Select Huawei Honor 8 and try to get them connected

    Successfully connected

    So our test is failed because we can't replicate the problem in our lab., we are not saying the Bluetooth is flawless or trying to falsify your experience, we just failed to repeat the instance and identify the cause of the problem at this stage.

    To be frank, BT connection between mobile and iDAP-6 is not a very high priority item except HiByLink, but since HiByLink requires a connection established from the mobile phone, so we are more or less established a habbit to switch on the BT on iDAP-6 and complete the rest of the BT connection procedure from the Mobile. We'll keep an eye on the available device list on iDAP-6 from now on, hopefully we can run into the situation as you have described, then we can diagnosis the problem effectively from there on.
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
    Cayin Stay updated on Cayin at their sponsor page on Head-Fi.
  6. Andykong
    We don't deliberately keep silent, we just happen to have a lot of meetings at year end, and an important management meeting next week to present department budget and operation plan, If you check other official Cayin product threads in HeadFi forum, you'll probably will notice my absent across all threads, not just the iDAP-6 thread.

    Cayin is trying our best to devote resources in HeadFi forum as one of the means to communicate with our users. I hope Cayin's participation in HeadFi forum is not growing in to a mandatory practice because we simply can't promise that in the long run. If our short term absent will be interpreted as running away, we probably need to re-think our approach seriously.

    For the record, there will be a lot of "silent" period in next few months, I am responsible for Cayin's participation at CanJam New York (Feb), CanJam Singapore (March), AXPONA (April), and Munich High-end Audio Show (May), that means I'll spend 1/3 of my time on travelling, and then 1/3 of my time on preparing for shows and following up on contacts established after each shows. In fact I had run into similar situation in 2017 as we had attended three CanJam plus LAAS in the first half of 2017. I was complete absent from the forum for several months because of that.
    Cayin Stay updated on Cayin at their sponsor page on Head-Fi.
  7. Andykong
    Glad you like the iDAP-6. :beerchug::beerchug:

    The SD slot of iDAP-6 is deliberately built further into the chassis so that you can close the "door" after inserting a SD card into the slot. It is indeed more difficult then standard SD card slot implementation when you want to release the card. My fingers are clumsy and I don't keep any finger nail at all, so I also run into similar problem in the very beginning, and I learned a few trick to solve the problem after that. If I want to swap another SD card (i.e., Card no. 2) into iDAP-6, I normally use the SD card 2 to "push" the SD card 1 further into the chassis in order to activate the spring loader. Alternatively I'll use a coin to push the SD card 1 and eject it from iDAP-6.

    The USB Audio output of iDAP-6 is clean and excel in resolution when compare to the coaxial output, but I have meet users who described the USB output of iDAP-6 as sterilized and he prefers the good old S/PDIF over USB Audio because of that.
    Cayin Stay updated on Cayin at their sponsor page on Head-Fi.
    HK_sends likes this.
  8. piorasz
    It all depends on the quality of the USB interface in the DAC. In my DAC I have an amanero with its own power supply and the sound quality is clearly better than by the spdif.
    Generally, the quality of sound in the idap-6 is assessed at a high level. If you improve the functionality (built-in Tidal or the proper gapless support by DLNA), other errors could be forgiven. Nowadays DLNA, Tidal, Samba and NAS support are basic standards. If it is possible to enter it in idap-6 it will be one of the best players on the market for that money.

    I am waiting for development so that I can recommend this product in my country with a clear conscience.
    Today's market dictates completely new standards than a few years ago. Please, do not forget about it.
    Good luck.
  9. piorasz
    This is a very disturbing message for idap-6 users. Does this mean that we will not see any new software in the coming weeks / months?
  10. HK_sends
    Thanks for the info, I like the fact you can close the door with the SD card inserted. It makes the iDAP-6 look clean and uncluttered on the shelf. I've ordered a BNC-to-BNC cable as well so I can compare all three. My Gumby has the "gen 5" (as called by Schiit) USB card installed. I wouldn't call the USB sound quality sterile, so much as more analytical and well balanced. Listening to acoustic stringed instruments, the resonance from the wooden bodies of the violins, cellos, and other instruments was easily discernible. Mannheim Steamroller's "Red Wine" (track 8 of Fresh Aire IV) almost brought me to tears in how well it sounded...and that was via USB!

    Thanks for the excellent transport! I look forward to seeing the functionality evolve through the firmware updates!

    Cheers and All the Best!:beerchug:
    -HK sends
  11. burdie
    My first success Hibylink BT connection is using Vivo V3 Max with Idap-6 on firmware 1.1 and wifi was off (I disabled it after using wired network), but I forgot I paired them from idap-6 itself or Vivo phone
    After updated to firmware 1.2, Idap-6 failed to detect any BT devices regardless wifi turn on or off, but only with wifi on, my Vivo V3 max and Huawei Mate 10 able to detect Idap-6 and there is no problem on pairing from smartphone, but iDAP-6 still unable to list the available BT devices.
    Today, I brought Idap-6 to a friend (second setup, ifi portable DAC, Leben tube pre and power, Zu essence floor stand) and he used Huawei Mate 10 Pro, same problem, I need to turn on wifi for Mate 10 Pro to find Idap-6 but Idap-6 not able to find any BT devices. However, he likes the features of Idap-6 (hibylink, i2s etc) and the sound reproduction is very accurate, he decided to get it (He got Aurender digital transport feeding PS Audio Directstream but this setup not here)
    But there are two little problems today,
    (i) Cayin was first inserted with SD card, Hibylink control it perfectly. But in the middle of playing audio file from SD card, I inserted USB thumb drive into the front USB port, Cayin display pop up with the message like drive connected (can't remember the exact wording). Goto the folder view on Hibylink now will not be able to see the new drive just connected. I need to disable Hibylink and enable it to pair again, then the new drive connected will be shown on folder view. So Hibylink is not plug'n'play yet.
    (ii) With both SD card (sandisk) and USB drive (kingston) on iDAP-6, very short intermittent sound will happen when i play another song from another folder. Always happen in first few second of the song. I don't know this is due to the Cayin or USB drive, but I have no such problem when I connect single HDD to iDAP-6
  12. Andykong
    Yes, my comment was only in relative terms. There is hardly anything absolute when come to sound signature.

    We have gone through similar issues previously, but no harm to repeat myself again.

    iDAP-6 is a SoC (System on Chip) solution, it is based on Ingenic X1000 and there isn't a Tidal client available to this system architecture. If Tidal offers a client that can work with X1000, of course we'll jump on board, but that is up to Tidal, not Cayin. We have make this clear that third party application is not feasible with iDAP-6 in the very beginning, unfortunately you didn't take that as-is and consider that is our error. To be frank, there is nothing much we can do.

    iDAP-6 supports gapless on NAS playback, but you have to use the control interface of the iDAP-6 to control the playback, and that will be in Samba protocol.

    When you go to DLNA, the playback chain will break into three parts: Library, Controller, and Renderer. In a typical setting, the NAS becomes the library, the iDAP-6 becomes the renderer and your mobile phone with DLNA app (e.g., Bubbleupnp) become the controller. Gapless feature rests with the Controller, the renderer (i.e., iDAP-6) will only playback according to the instruction of the Controller, so requiring the iDAP-6 to enforce gapless in DLNA mode is like reaching for the star. As our customers, you can keep asking, we simply ignore the request in the meantime.

    Thanks for your patient and continuous "support", and I wish you good luck in finding another player at this price range that you can recommend in your country with a clear conscience.
    Cayin Stay updated on Cayin at their sponsor page on Head-Fi.
  13. Andykong
    I am the marketing person of Cayin, attending Shows and Promotion events is part of my main duty. On the other hand, software and firmware development is not my duty, someone in Cayin will take care of that, and their working schedule is not related to my travelling schedule.

    I am simply refer to my "silent" in the forum as you have put it.
    Cayin Stay updated on Cayin at their sponsor page on Head-Fi.
  14. Andykong
    If you go for DENAFRIPS, you can compare I2S vs USB vs AES vs RCA vs BNC , that should be fun.:beerchug:

    The first design (on paper) puts the SD card and USB socket on the side panel, this is a typical layout adopted by a lot of media player from China, especially at sub-$1000 price range. We have to find way to control the production cost and cutting two holes in the side panel is a lot more easier then making a hidden chamber with "door" in the front panel.

    Sterlie is indeed a bit negative, for people that prefer smooth and bodies, that will be their description for "extremely analytical". As piorasz puts it, the USB interface at the DAC will play an important part on this, the earlier XMOS solution tends to feel like that, the Amanero and the latest XMOS2 are better off relatively.
    Cayin Stay updated on Cayin at their sponsor page on Head-Fi.
  15. Andykong

    The SD card + USB thumb driver is a new bug, I'll request a thorough test on this combination next week and come back to you later, I hope we can replicate the problem in our laboratory.

    Your friend make a very radical move to a lot of audiophile because going from Aurender to iDAP-6 will be consider as a "downgrade" by many, if not everyone. If I remember it right, even their little brother N100 is priced at around $2,500. I haven't had the opportunity to compare iDAP-6 side by side with those high-end players, when John told me that the iDAP-6 lost gracefully, I was very excited already.
    Cayin Stay updated on Cayin at their sponsor page on Head-Fi.
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