candlejack
Headphoneus Supremus
Amen to that. Ears always beat eyes in this hobby.![]()
And, since the eyes are more trouble than they're worth, whenever possible, do a blind test.
Amen to that. Ears always beat eyes in this hobby.![]()
By that logic, we should see a non consistent graph of multiple z1r too then, you know because they are amateurs with amateur equipment.
I generally stay out of these discussions because it is a lot more complicated and nuanced than an internet forum will allow me to explain it, but there are a few factors to be aware of if you want to introduce any kind of scientific rigour. There is a reason why professional measurement equipment is so expensive and why measurements are conducted in specially prepared rooms. There is also a limit to the usefulness of measurements, however well conducted, because what they provide you with is an approximation. What I mean to indicate with these things is that the sound that leaves the IEMs is subject to changes by the ear canal and no two ear canals are the same. (My left and right are quite different.) This means that measurements are actually extremely difficult to do consistently (control over physical parameters) and meaningfully (having relevance to the IEMs actual use). Once the sounds leaves the IEMs it starts to become something very different from the exercise in physics that you get within the IEMs, as anatomy comes to play, physiology comes to play and yes, psychology too.This has been probably my biggest reason for frustration since becoming active again on this forum: people acting more like brand ambassadors/apologists instead of paying customers. This and the refusal to embrace and promote the scientific method for describing sound (yes, I'm talking about measurements and their analysis).
But I think the hi-fi audio consumer has a different psychology than a consumer of regular everyday goods. When I buy a washing machine I do it without passion. I'm only concerned with its objective qualities: does it wash well, is it energy efficient, is it quiet, does it cost a reasonable price, and I don't particularly care about the brand or if anybody else likes it.
A high end headphone on the other hand is not something that simply satisfies a need. We have an expectation that it will somehow enrich our lives, it will bring us joy and happiness. You "love" your headphone but you don't give a second thought to your washing machine, even though your washing machine is much more useful/needed in your life. When you love something, you begin to have a relationship with that thing. If someone tries to hurt it, you want to protect it. If someone says that it sucks, you want to retaliate because if it sucks and you love it, what does that say about you? But this is not a healthy consumer/customer attitude. Instead of demanding more, you find excuses for why you get less. You cannot love something that you do not think is awesome. So if you already decided that you love it (because with this decision comes the promise of happiness) then it has to be awesome!
But this is an emotional response, with only short term benefits. Thinking objectively and recognizing a flaw might make you a bit sad initially, but raising the issue instead of burying it will in the long run force the manufacturer to improve the product which will put you in the position to enjoy it more. I see this as an exercise in consumer maturation.
[This was pretty much an unstructured braindump, apologies if it's incoherent]
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Measurements, listen with your ears not your eyes,
buy with your ears not with your eyes.
Oh look at that, I have said too much.
I said "Made by admitted amateurs in less than stellar environmental conditions and with not exactly professional equipment."
Sorry, but yes, unless one is measuring within a laboratory, with the same environmental conditions, same equipment, and controlled variables, then yes, these graphs can't be trusted.
The earphones tested should also have been burned in for the right amount of time per the manufacturer or a reasonable amount if no manufacturer recommendation. To many variables to control.
I tend to ignore all graphs on Head-fi for this very reason.
Yawning...
We keep on going around in circles here, no matter what is said.
You graph guys can continue to go ahead and worship your graphs.
The rest of us prefer to listen and enjoy our earphones.
We get it, you are not happy with the graphs.
So what? The majority of the users here seem to like the Solaris. You have made your point and the rest of us don't care.
I dunno, the people talking about the Solaris’ vocal problems would seem to care.
I am shocked, my rave review went to trash
Joking, great post and this should never be forgotten :
This being said, I don’t think the middle ground is necessarily the « true » one if there is such a thing. The main item for me is for any reviewer to make clear what their reference point is, and make clear that this is a subjective exercise. I’ll take even a review I disagree with that makes this clear than one presented as objective that I would agree upon (oh my, this sure is bound to be wrong, just like measurements will be « wrong ») and middle groundedIt’s all subjective.
I’d rather take the honest post, recognizing the competition as well (kudos for the fair play) over the polished one!
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Campfire Audio - Nicely Done.
Stay updated on Campfire Audio at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
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I generally stay out of these discussions because it is a lot more complicated and nuanced than an internet forum will allow me to explain it, but there are a few factors to be aware of if you want to introduce any kind of scientific rigour. There is a reason why professional measurement equipment is so expensive and why measurements are conducted in specially prepared rooms. There is also a limit to the usefulness of measurements, however well conducted, because what they provide you with is an approximation. What I mean to indicate with these things is that the sound that leaves the IEMs is subject to changes by the ear canal and no two ear canals are the same. (My left and right are quite different.) This means that measurements are actually extremely difficult to do consistently (control over physical parameters) and meaningfully (having relevance to the IEMs actual use). Once the sounds leaves the IEMs it starts to become something very different from the exercise in physics that you get within the IEMs, as anatomy comes to play, physiology comes to play and yes, psychology too.
While measurements can be informative, they do not constitute the embodiment of the scientific method when it comes to describing the sound from IEMs, simply by the fact that sound emanating from IEMs without the interaction of the ear canal, physiology and psychology is meaningless data without context. When it comes to only measuring the IEMs without context, then the only meaningful measurements (in a scientific sense) are those conducted in a highly standardised way. When it comes to the perception of music coming from IEMs, then that is a whole different ball game, as a wide variety of factors come to play. Some of those are anatomical, some physiological, some developmental and yet others purely psychological.
What I mean to say is that there are different aspects to this hobby and different people focus on different things. It is important to make distinctions when dealing with any one of those aspects. Is it purely a technical issue? Is it to do with sound perception? Not everyone has the same focus and it is easy to get things muddled when discussions are at cross purposes. So for instance, it is not that strange that many hifi consumers buy with their heart because music is about emotion at a most fundamental level (it is biologically extremely primitive, predating spoken language).
Just some thoughts that occurred to me when reading your post (similarly incoherent).
Anyhow yeah the measurements, as I have stated in the past I am not a fan of them (good and bad) and end up bing a distraction that does a disservice to the whole community IMO. I dont know, Sony Z1Rs are just hitting the street, give them a few months and separation from production runs, the freqs will vary quite a bit visually but am sure it will be not audibly noticeable unless something goes very haywire. Almost all the Solaris freqs I see posted look not 100% so I am not sure what analyzers/couplers are being used or? I dont post about all this nor post my own measurements only because I would rather not throw more wood on this whole thing and well yeah get caught up in "measurement-bating". Im not sure but I think I might be the only head of a IEM company fool enough to post like this? not sure.
Measurements, listen with your ears not your eyes, buy with your ears not with your eyes.
As I stated in the past we here at CFA have a dedicated employee who job in singular. He pairs left and right individually using the latest AP audio analyzer and manages QC, I mean its tedious but we feel that making sure each IEM and perfectly hand paired left and right is critical. Before these built IEMs even make it to this person the whole batch is measures and anything that falls out of spec is pulled and recycled.