Campfire - Solaris

[KB]

I completely disagree with this attitude but hey, it's your company and it's not like you have no idea what you're doing: the Andromeda and the Solaris are both excellent.



It's not that easy, Ken. My local CA dealer has demos for all your IEMs. That's what I get a chance to listen to before buying. If the demo does not match what's in the sealed box, then I hope we can agree that it's a problem. In Europe all stores I know of have a return policy that states: "Exceptions are the in-ear headphones. From the point of view of hygiene, we can not take these products back."



Could you share with us what does "out of spec" mean in this case? What exactly are the tolerances?

No sweat, I am just saying that measurements are just a tool that can be tricky and we would hope that people take them with caveats, listening is best, thats all. I cant speak for all store polices, rather ours through our website, sales channels and stated our policy.

No sorry I am would rather not get into the measurement weeds or tradecraft details, only that we do take all of this very seriously.

Kb

 

[BananaOoyoo]

It's not that easy, Ken. My local CA dealer has demos for all your IEMs. That's what I get a chance to listen to before buying. If the demo does not match what's in the sealed box, then I hope we can agree that it's a problem. In Europe all stores I know of have a return policy that states: "Exceptions are the in-ear headphones. From the point of view of hygiene, we can not take these products back."

That’s actually an interesting point. From everything that’s popped up so far, there doesn’t seem to be a single issue of mismatched drivers - so Ken & co. are doing a fantastic job there. The issue for me would be that whichever distributor Campfire Audio ends up getting in Korea would laugh me out of the store if I tried to say “my unit doesn’t match the demo - in a negative way” and would chalk it up to buyers remorse.

None of that would necessarily stop me from getting a Solaris if it outclassed the other TOTL hybrids out there, but it does add uncertainty to the value proposition. (That is, I assume the Solaris will cost me a minimum of 1800USD, which is less than the $1900~2500+ I’d be looking at for the others, but not liking my Solaris would mean taking a loss of $300+ with nothing to show for it.)

Just my 2c. I’ve liked all the CA products I’ve had in the past, and the Andromeda was what got me into IEMs in the first place, but you can’t help but be careful when dealing with kilobuck IEMs.

 

[jeffreyw311]

Can they please add to this discussion then, but leave the graphs at home.

I'm sure many of us here would love to hear the impressions they hear.

Did you miss half this thread before the initial thread lock where you had half the regulars constantly asking them what they mean by recessed vocals (because it’s not a problem on their own unit) and some dude claiming that Japanese Pop was the worst music in the world? Because I absolutely remember those discussions.

Now those impressions are important because they highlight a huge difference in opinion. Again: is it a case of different personal opinion/different ears or is it a case of large unit variation that one group of people hear “recessed vocals” and others do not?

If there aren’t any less than glowing impressions on here it’s because they’ve been driven away. Because no one wants to deal with the elephant in the room. It isn’t about graphs, it’s about unit variation which Ken Ball has straight up admitted to in his second response on the matter. Instead of dodging the issue the blaming everything in graphs, how about answering whether or not this unit variation is a problem or not.

 

[Penguino]

Oh no! its back Weeee!

I bought a Z1R, I keep getting the Sony model number letter salads all mixed up, the flagship new Sony IEM, the big silver metal one anyhow I have not received it yet but did want to add it to my collection. I am a Sony fan boy so wanted to pay my homage as well, wonderful sounding IEM. Anyhow yeah the measurements, as I have stated in the past I am not a fan of them (good and bad) and end up bing a distraction that does a disservice to the whole community IMO. I dont know, Sony Z1Rs are just hitting the street, give them a few months and separation from production runs, the freqs will vary quite a bit visually but am sure it will be not audibly noticeable unless something goes very haywire. Almost all the Solaris freqs I see posted look not 100% so I am not sure what analyzers/couplers are being used or? I dont post about all this nor post my own measurements only because I would rather not throw more wood on this whole thing and well yeah get caught up in "measurement-bating". Im not sure but I think I might be the only head of a IEM company fool enough to post like this? not sure.

Measurements, listen with your ears not your eyes, buy with your ears not with your eyes. I like to toss out the most over the top glowing review and/or statements, throw out the worst review or most vial nasty posts and what is in the middle is probably going to be the most representative/accurate.

As I stated in the past here we here at CFA have a dedicated employee who job in singular. He pairs left and right individually using the latest AP audio analyzer and manages QC, I mean its tedious but we feel that making sure each IEM and perfectly hand paired left and right is critical. Before these built IEMs even make it to this person the whole batch is measures and anything that falls out of spec is pulled and recycled. We care deeply about the products that leave our doors and want nothing more then our customers to be happy, enjoy the hell our of our IEMs and their purchase as well as feel good about the purchase. I do like to read the forums and listen to what everyone is saying despite the occasional troll or misinformation or outright nasty mean posts. I want to be engaged and try and be better at what we do so knowledge is important here.

I think what Noble, Sony, JH, 64 etc.. all the main companies are doing are great and it just pushes us all to make better and better performing products and compete harder. I also feel that the more viable successful companies exist the better the hobby will be. Not one size fits all also so I think that we all have to have some healthy respect for what others are making because that might fit one set of customers that are not being taken care of.

Oh look at that, I have said too much.

Kb

What I find most interesting about your replies to this thread is that you always address channel matching and not what is being asked. It was the variation of sound and FR unit to unit being called into question. Not the channel matching. In fact the measurements back up what you are saying about your channel matching. Its up to spec. However even just by ear some individuals found the differences between some units to be very pronounced.
So I have a couple questions :
Channel matching aside, are solaris measured to a target to ensure that they sound the same by ear?
Can you hear the mid range hollow that some individuals describe on any of your units? Are these within your tolerances?

 

[Carlsan]

I've followed this thread from the beginning. There were a ton of glowing reviews and impressions. Then one person claimed the issue with graphs, then there was controversy. I think most of this thread has been positive toward the Solaris, except when people bring up these graphs, which seem to be recycled.

It's all old news and recycled complaints. Most of the people who own or tried these think the Solaris sound great.

Enough said, I'm out of here. It's like arguing with a soap box.
The rest of us want to talk about the hiss that can occur with these, the best tips, best cables, or otherwise how to get the best out of our earphones.
Many want to talk about how great these are.

You come in and are completely negative based on some graphs that were shared. Why don't you go audition or buy a pair, then discuss what you hear.
And if you don't like them then return them and let us all know, as I am sure you will.
Cheers.

 

[CreditingKarma]

I am not one to blindly follow graphs or reviews. I agree that you need to go through multiple review of people that have similar taste in sound to you. Graphs can assist if you hear something that is not to your liking but this does not mean that other can not enjoy the iem or headphone.
There are to many variables between different daps, amps, ect. It is always important to listen for yourself. If I had taken the review zeos did on the clears I would have missed out on a headphone that I really like. The same is true if I had looked at the graphs of the LCD 4z.

Follow your ears and you won't be disappointed.

 

[fokta]

just enjoying my traffic ride while reading this Thread... just giggle. . anyway Have a nice day...

 

[Rockwell75]

Why don't you go audition or buy a pair, then discuss what you hear.

Because that would make too much sense. Plot twist: He works for Sony.

 

[B9Scrambler]

Some Solaris eye candy

​

 

[BananaOoyoo]

Because that would make too much sense. Plot twist: He works for Sony.

All else aside, there’s no reason to blindly accuse someone of working for a competitor because they have criticisms of a product. That doesn’t get any of us anywhere.

 

[orifiel]

C’mon men!!
How many pairs of Solaris has the “hollow mids” issue (in graphs or ear)?
How many pairs of Solaris has the problem of variations in the graph between units?
How many Solaris are sell or produced untill now?

Is this problem statistically significative??

Or is just a random problem?

If there is an issue, If the customer found a fault in his product, then contact the seller and found a solution together, maybe is only a fault in some units.

In other way...

you have been equally rigorous in your measurements of several units with all the other audio brands??

Or you only focus on Solaris??

 

[chickenmoon]

Could you share with us what does "out of spec" mean in this case? What exactly are the tolerances?

Yeah, that would be interesting to know as I find the claim to discard out of specs components to somewhat conflict with the need of a subsequent step to channel match drivers.

As for now I take it it that an on spec driver can deviate by more than 1dB in loudness and that they are subsequently matched in pairs not deviating by more than 1dB from each other.

The 1dB value comes from previous CA post (not) addressing the issue of discrepancies between units.

 

[jeffreyw311]

Because that would make too much sense. Plot twist: He works for Sony.

Who me? I don’t even own a single Sony product, they haven’t been price of feature competitive for almost a decade outside of maybe the PlayStation.

So if I’m working for Sony, they better be bank rolling me like George Soros is apparently single handedly the cause of every protest in America.

 

[BananaOoyoo]

C’mon men!!
How many pairs of Solaris has the “hollow mids” issue (in graphs or ear)?
How many pairs of Solaris has the problem of variations in the graph between units?
How many Solaris are sell or produced untill now?

Is this problem statistically significative??

Or is just a random problem?

If there is an issue, If the customer found a fault in his product, then contact the seller and found a solution together, maybe is only a fault in some units.

In other way...

you have been equally rigorous in your measurements of several units with all the other audio brands??

Or you only focus on Solaris??

If news came out that, say, the Noble Khan had unit variances, then yes, I would be concerned about it. Isn’t that to be expected though, especially when it comes to high-end products? (In fact, with this particular example, I’m more likely to continue being interested in getting the Solaris in spite of such news because I have had positive experiences with Campfire Audio IEMs before.)

This thing actually started because a reviewer thought first Solaris demo he tried didn’t live up to the expectations set up by other owners... but wanted to give Campfire Audio the benefit of the doubt and tried a different one.

 

[marcussmj]

Who me? I don’t even own a single Sony product, they haven’t been price of feature competitive for almost a decade outside of maybe the PlayStation.

So if I’m working for Sony, they better be bank rolling me like George Soros is apparently single handedly the cause of every protest in America.

Rather than actually asking the right questions these people just try to go straight for your jugular. Expected behaviour tbh. I agree with your assessment and these are genuine concerns that you have repeatedly pointed out yet the denial is strong here.