[davidmolliere]

• Crinacle probably can't return the Solaris because they weren't his to begin with. People are usually sent units for measurement to be performed on them.
  
• Manufacturer-published measurements serves as a contradictory measurement.
  
• Publishing measurement data of their own demonstrates that Campfire can show their units to be internally consistent. It also shows consumers what signature they can expect from the product, as all measurements so far has been wildly different. As far as the data shows, you're really just rolling a dice when buying a Solaris.
• People have noted discrepancies during audition. You'll find that subjective descriptions across those who have auditioned vary greatly, especially with respect to vocals.

Well

• Those people should return it, shouldn’t they, doesn’t change the fact that they are reported as defective so why not return them... confused again

• They could publish measurements for the units in question only, otherwise I don’t see the point, for that they’d need the serial numbers and also doesn’t mean the units should not be checked (tampered with, fell, whatever could happen...)

• I am surprised that a reputable brand that has been trusted for quite a while needs to establish trust when there is only a non verifiable issue since the units have not been returned which again doesn’t make sense

• The main debate I recall about vocals, I recall because I asked those people what they mainly listened to so that we had a point of reference and as it turns out people finding female vocals to be recessed were listening to Jpop so not really the same frequency range than say accounts of several of us like me listening to westerners female vocals that sit lower in the register. Not saying that there is no issue, just that it would need to be dug further to draw conclusions

 

[sagebeard]

Just my take on the solaris. cut and somewhat edited from a larger piece i've been writing after trying a bunch of random stuff for a day in a hifi shop.

-------

CFA - Solaris

Widely hyped latest and greatest IEM by community darling Campfire Audio after their smash hit with the excellent andromeda. Seeing what this fuss is all about, I went out of my way to try and listen to a pair for myself. This set was nigh fresh from the box from a hifishop in amsterdam.

• Overal notes and TL;DR

Initially, fairly good 'wow'-factor thanks to the apparent sparkly highs and texture. After longer listening however, more and more things become apparent. It's not bad per se, but there's some very interesting, and questionable choices in voicing that just don't sit well with me. It certainly didn't live up to the hype generated around it.

Overal tonal balance is good, but not somethings I'd be able to immediately place in the traditional vee/warm(dark)/mid/bright/'neutral' categories. Starting from the bottom up, the bass has suprisingly little heft and body to it, almost (but not quite) like the drier bass in a full-BA setup. Was kinda interested in solaris initially due to it being rumoured as 'andro with DD bass'. but alas, it wasnt to be.

Then, lower mids, mids, thin for my tastes, but otherwise quite natural and 'effortless' like hd800 can be. That is, diffuse, ethereal staging that that just gets pushed back too much. This being more of a personal preference, due to liking more intimate and warmer mid presentations in both speakers and head-gear.

The upper mids, treble again, questionable. Sparkly, with good apparent detail, but there's this certain thing to it that just makes it sound 'wrong' to me. not bad. just.... that certain je-ne-sais-quoi kinda lacking in something. That combined with the certain kinda plasticky timbre and nasality, it kinda just took me out of any sort of immersion.

Speaking about immersion, staging quite good actually, for a fully sealed iem, quite a large stage, but can fall prey to falling apart in cohesion at times.

• musical notes

Just like how I did the big write up on the m7, (and the ones still in pipeline for ex1k, cd3k and l700) I usually prefer to reference to tracks rather than referencing the different 'ranges'.
This all powered from the balanced out of a ZX300 with JP region firmware. All tracks 16/44 Flac self ripped or from trusted sources at minimum. Direct Source turned on to rule out any dsp interference.
With all that said, for now, I'll share the notes from one album.

• Fleetwood Mac - Tango In The Night - Little Lies / Mystified / You and I, Pt.2

Ah, fleetwood mac. Consistently some of the best mastering and mixing for headphones out there in myopinion, despite the years that have passed. While 'Tango In The Night' isn't quite the tour-de-force of masterpieces and intrigue like 'Rumours' was, it IS a much more upbeat feel-good kind of album.

With the Solaris, The first track I mention in this album, Mystified, track 6, is a wonderful affair. The tuning and large stage fits wonderfully with the dreamy, detached vibe going on here. The all important reverb and snare drums sparkle and shimmer with enough energy like they should, and the diffuse mids give just the right amount weightlessness without overdoing it, like the HD800, or the rare Stax ED5 equaliser can do.

Onto track 7, Little lies, we quickly stumble upon what in my opinion is the most glaring fault of the solaris. Now that the vocals are back to the forefront, now that everything has gained their weight and authority back, I quickly find that vocals, even the famous chorus of 'Tell me lies, sweet little lies', have gained a weird kind of nasality to it, along with a... brittle? very plasticky timbre that wasnt quite apparent one track earlier. The presentation still 'effortless' and unstrained, it just feels wrong. I would almost compare it to the 'upscaling' gimmicks some daps use, most notably, the DSEE HX and such from sony. I double, even triple checked during various phases of my time with the solaris to make sure it wasnt on my side. Despite the apparent clarity and effortlessness, there is raw edge, plasticky thing to it... brrr

The final track in this album, fun, and upbeat with a solid drum backing behind it. much more full and mellow than most of the tracks here. But here we stumble on the other major flaw of the solaris. The bass feels drier than should be here, it's much more thumpy and dry than the likes of EX1000, HS1551, gr07AE or even the all-BA M7 I'm addmittedly enamored with. While not fully the 'dead BA bass' many BA iem suffer from, it still is a far cry from the body and impact a good DD can have. Limp wristed indeed. I had expected MUCH more out of a DD in this price bracket really...

All of the above being said, I do not think the Solaris is terrible or anything. The resolution is there and some, the presentation and voicing in the mids quite unique. Just the plasticky nature and almost nasality of the treble, and bass that frankly is almost unbecoming of a DD that make the solaris a less than ideal candidate for me. Slotted next to the andromeda, or perhaps just above would've been a fine place. The current msrp of 1500usd, or 1600+ eur in europe, make it a lot less attractive with how competitive the market is today.

 

[Kitechaser]

Just my take on the solaris. cut and somewhat edited from a larger piece i've been writing after trying a bunch of random stuff for a day in a hifi shop.

-------

CFA - Solaris

Widely hyped latest and greatest IEM by community darling Campfire Audio after their smash hit with the excellent andromeda. Seeing what this fuss is all about, I went out of my way to try and listen to a pair for myself. This set was nigh fresh from the box from a hifishop in amsterdam.

• Overal notes and TL;DR

Initially, fairly good 'wow'-factor thanks to the apparent sparkly highs and texture. After longer listening however, more and more things become apparent. It's not bad per se, but there's some very interesting, and questionable choices in voicing that just don't sit well with me. It certainly didn't live up to the hype generated around it.

Overal tonal balance is good, but not somethings I'd be able to immediately place in the traditional vee/warm(dark)/mid/bright/'neutral' categories. Starting from the bottom up, the bass has suprisingly little heft and body to it, almost (but not quite) like the drier bass in a full-BA setup. Was kinda interested in solaris initially due to it being rumoured as 'andro with DD bass'. but alas, it wasnt to be.

Then, lower mids, mids, thin for my tastes, but otherwise quite natural and 'effortless' like hd800 can be. That is, diffuse, ethereal staging that that just gets pushed back too much. This being more of a personal preference, due to liking more intimate and warmer mid presentations in both speakers and head-gear.

The upper mids, treble again, questionable. Sparkly, with good apparent detail, but there's this certain thing to it that just makes it sound 'wrong' to me. not bad. just.... that certain je-ne-sais-quoi kinda lacking in something. That combined with the certain kinda plasticky timbre and nasality, it kinda just took me out of any sort of immersion.

Speaking about immersion, staging quite good actually, for a fully sealed iem, quite a large stage, but can fall prey to falling apart in cohesion at times.

• musical notes

Just like how I did the big write up on the m7, (and the ones still in pipeline for ex1k, cd3k and l700) I usually prefer to reference to tracks rather than referencing the different 'ranges'.
This all powered from the balanced out of a ZX300 with JP region firmware. All tracks 16/44 Flac self ripped or from trusted sources at minimum. Direct Source turned on to rule out any dsp interference.
With all that said, for now, I'll share the notes from one album.

• Fleetwood Mac - Tango In The Night - Little Lies / Mystified / You and I, Pt.2

Ah, fleetwood mac. Consistently some of the best mastering and mixing for headphones out there in myopinion, despite the years that have passed. While 'Tango In The Night' isn't quite the tour-de-force of masterpieces and intrigue like 'Rumours' was, it IS a much more upbeat feel-good kind of album.

With the Solaris, The first track I mention in this album, Mystified, track 6, is a wonderful affair. The tuning and large stage fits wonderfully with the dreamy, detached vibe going on here. The all important reverb and snare drums sparkle and shimmer with enough energy like they should, and the diffuse mids give just the right amount weightlessness without overdoing it, like the HD800, or the rare Stax ED5 equaliser can do.

Onto track 7, Little lies, we quickly stumble upon what in my opinion is the most glaring fault of the solaris. Now that the vocals are back to the forefront, now that everything has gained their weight and authority back, I quickly find that vocals, even the famous chorus of 'Tell me lies, sweet little lies', have gained a weird kind of nasality to it, along with a... brittle? very plasticky timbre that wasnt quite apparent one track earlier. The presentation still 'effortless' and unstrained, it just feels wrong. I would almost compare it to the 'upscaling' gimmicks some daps use, most notably, the DSEE HX and such from sony. I double, even triple checked during various phases of my time with the solaris to make sure it wasnt on my side. Despite the apparent clarity and effortlessness, there is raw edge, plasticky thing to it... brrr

The final track in this album, fun, and upbeat with a solid drum backing behind it. much more full and mellow than most of the tracks here. But here we stumble on the other major flaw of the solaris. The bass feels drier than should be here, it's much more thumpy and dry than the likes of EX1000, HS1551, gr07AE or even the all-BA M7 I'm addmittedly enamored with. While not fully the 'dead BA bass' many BA iem suffer from, it still is a far cry from the body and impact a good DD can have. Limp wristed indeed. I had expected MUCH more out of a DD in this price bracket really...

All of the above being said, I do not think the Solaris is terrible or anything. The resolution is there and some, the presentation and voicing in the mids quite unique. Just the plasticky nature and almost nasality of the treble, and bass that frankly is almost unbecoming of a DD that make the solaris a less than ideal candidate for me. Slotted next to the andromeda, or perhaps just above would've been a fine place. The current msrp of 1500usd, or 1600+ eur in europe, make it a lot less attractive with how competitive the market is today.

This is a completely legitimate take. One person's opinion amongst many.
The whole FR variance debacle, is so overblown and sensationalized, that what the iem actually sounds like has been completely obscured by it all.
If you don't like it, don't buy it.
It'll sound different to you based on what signatures you are used to.
We all have our preferences.

 

[jeffreyw311]

Well

• Those people should return it, shouldn’t they, doesn’t change the fact that they are reported as defective so why not return them... confused again

• They could publish measurements for the units in question only, otherwise I don’t see the point, for that they’d need the serial numbers and also doesn’t mean the units should not be checked (tampered with, fell, whatever could happen...)

• I am surprised that a reputable brand that has been trusted for quite a while needs to establish trust when there is only a non verifiable issue since the units have not been returned which again doesn’t make sense

• The main debate I recall about vocals, I recall because I asked those people what they mainly listened to so that we had a point of reference and as it turns out people finding female vocals to be recessed were listening to Jpop so not really the same frequency range than say accounts of several of us like me listening to westerners female vocals that sit lower in the register. Not saying that there is no issue, just that it would need to be dug further to draw conclusions

Point 1: Without measurements, there's no clear way of telling which one unit is defective. No one knows which one is the "true" tuning sample. As you've said multiple times in this thread, you've suggested that you don't hear vocal differences in the multiple times other people have said they do hear muted or recessed vocals.

This has been a long problem with audiophile impressions because product variation has been a fairly common problem. We've seen this with the Beyerdynamic T1 to the early Audeze Fazor models where you don't know which tuning is the representative model. Which one is defective? The best sounding model or the most common model?

In most cases, those problems are dismissed as personal difference but in reality a lot of those opinion differences are simply because people are hearing essentially completely different headphones. The Beynerdynamic DT1350 in particular was a complete box of chocolates. No one knew the product variation issues until someone asked people to send all of their units in for measurements for the sole purpose of comparison.

Point 2: That's fair but those models aren't defective enough for there to be a serious problem. There's only one specific point where there is serious noticeable variation in sound signature.

Point 3: Again, just because they're reputable enough doesn't mean there can't be problems. As seen in Crinacle's measurements of two separate Campfire Audio Polaris samples, there are also notable sound signature differences there. Since Campfire Audio is best known for their single dynamic driver or full BA driver earphones, perhaps they have problems with their hybrids. No one cared before because not many people really cared about the Polaris as an end-game earphone.

Point 4: As you can see in the samples, the main difference is the variation in the 4khz dip. That's exactly where people are hearing muted instruments and vocals. People hearing different stuff from different samples would explain why some people think the Solaris sounds fine and some people don't.

 

[Demoninja]

Well

• Those people should return it, shouldn’t they, doesn’t change the fact that they are reported as defective so why not return them... confused again

• They could publish measurements for the units in question only, otherwise I don’t see the point, for that they’d need the serial numbers and also doesn’t mean the units should not be checked (tampered with, fell, whatever could happen...)

• I am surprised that a reputable brand that has been trusted for quite a while needs to establish trust when there is only a non verifiable issue since the units have not been returned which again doesn’t make sense

• The main debate I recall about vocals, I recall because I asked those people what they mainly listened to so that we had a point of reference and as it turns out people finding female vocals to be recessed were listening to Jpop so not really the same frequency range than say accounts of several of us like me listening to westerners female vocals that sit lower in the register. Not saying that there is no issue, just that it would need to be dug further to draw conclusions

• How do people determine if they should return them or not if they all measure differently. How would you identify which is "defective?" That's what Crin is asking when he's saying which is representative of the sig CFA wants to hit.

• The point is to prove whether or not Crin is full of crap. If his measurement taking abilities aren't up to snuff and CFA measures all of their units extensively they should be able to show that different batches all measure similarly.

• I am surprised that a reputable reviewer that has been trusted for quite a while needs to establish trust.

 

[twister6]

So, if we switch from discussion of graphs to talking about the actual sound impressions, here is my take on Solaris. Just another data point.

 

[davidmolliere]

It’s almost like the other debate would warrant a whole separate thread... or maybe we should start an impressions thread?
Great read @twister6 !

 

[Carlsan]

My thoughts about this is that if defective units in Singapore were found then he should have contacted Campfire Audio, ASAP.
That is what a professional reviewer would have done.
The store should also have been contacted, if that was the case.

I'm still not sure about the time line, why wait so long? Campfire Audio are a reputable company with a lot at stake with each release, just like many other earphone companies. One doesn't just trash them without first finding out what is going on. I have seen professional reviews where the reviewer states that the were sent a defective unit, and it was replaced. Never saw that written about Campfire in any of the countless reviews I have read. Either way, the reviewer reached out to the company with their concerns. That is the professional thing to do.

Ken made it perfectly clear the tools he uses for his measurements, I completely trust that they put out a quality product with top notch QC.

 

[Currawong]

To be absolutely clear, channel matching in each individual pair of Solarises were fine.

This is important, IMO. Unit variation is a curse suffered by numerous headphones and IEMs.

Fleetwood Mac - Tango In The Night - Little Lies / Mystified / You and I, Pt.2
Ah, fleetwood mac. Consistently some of the best mastering and mixing for headphones out there in myopinion, despite the years that have passed. While 'Tango In The Night' isn't quite the tour-de-force of masterpieces and intrigue like 'Rumours' was, it IS a much more upbeat feel-good kind of album.

With the Solaris, The first track I mention in this album, Mystified, track 6, is a wonderful affair. The tuning and large stage fits wonderfully with the dreamy, detached vibe going on here. The all important reverb and snare drums sparkle and shimmer with enough energy like they should, and the diffuse mids give just the right amount weightlessness without overdoing it, like the HD800, or the rare Stax ED5 equaliser can do.

Onto track 7, Little lies, we quickly stumble upon what in my opinion is the most glaring fault of the solaris. Now that the vocals are back to the forefront, now that everything has gained their weight and authority back, I quickly find that vocals, even the famous chorus of 'Tell me lies, sweet little lies', have gained a weird kind of nasality to it, along with a... brittle? very plasticky timbre that wasnt quite apparent one track earlier. The presentation still 'effortless' and unstrained, it just feels wrong. I would almost compare it to the 'upscaling' gimmicks some daps use, most notably, the DSEE HX and such from sony. I double, even triple checked during various phases of my time with the solaris to make sure it wasnt on my side. Despite the apparent clarity and effortlessness, there is raw edge, plasticky thing to it... brrr

The final track in this album, fun, and upbeat with a solid drum backing behind it. much more full and mellow than most of the tracks here. But here we stumble on the other major flaw of the solaris. The bass feels drier than should be here, it's much more thumpy and dry than the likes of EX1000, HS1551, gr07AE or even the all-BA M7 I'm addmittedly enamored with. While not fully the 'dead BA bass' many BA iem suffer from, it still is a far cry from the body and impact a good DD can have. Limp wristed indeed. I had expected MUCH more out of a DD in this price bracket really...

All of the above being said, I do not think the Solaris is terrible or anything. The resolution is there and some, the presentation and voicing in the mids quite unique. Just the plasticky nature and almost nasality of the treble, and bass that frankly is almost unbecoming of a DD that make the solaris a less than ideal candidate for me. Slotted next to the andromeda, or perhaps just above would've been a fine place. The current msrp of 1500usd, or 1600+ eur in europe, make it a lot less attractive with how competitive the market is today.

I wish people would post more music impressions like this. So far, after listening to a lot of what is mainly jazz, I reckon that the Solaris is best with live performances. Jazz at the Pawnshop, Sunday at the Village Vanguard, Chesky binaural albums and the like are all amazing with the Solaris. That's where the upper-mid emphasis works wonders. Going over some Fleetwood Mac again -- not as good a match.

 

[Legumez]

Well

• Those people should return it, shouldn’t they, doesn’t change the fact that they are reported as defective so why not return them... confused again

• They could publish measurements for the units in question only, otherwise I don’t see the point, for that they’d need the serial numbers and also doesn’t mean the units should not be checked (tampered with, fell, whatever could happen...)

• I am surprised that a reputable brand that has been trusted for quite a while needs to establish trust when there is only a non verifiable issue since the units have not been returned which again doesn’t make sense

• The main debate I recall about vocals, I recall because I asked those people what they mainly listened to so that we had a point of reference and as it turns out people finding female vocals to be recessed were listening to Jpop so not really the same frequency range than say accounts of several of us like me listening to westerners female vocals that sit lower in the register. Not saying that there is no issue, just that it would need to be dug further to draw conclusions

Newish account/lurker here, so from your previous comments my opinion doesn't matter and I'm part of a conspiracy to harm CA's reputation /s. Swapping bullet points to numbers for easier referencing:

1. My understanding is that we don't actually know if said units are defective yet, or if they're considered by CA to be within acceptable tolerances (given that CA tests them and they were shipped out, they at least were originally within tolerances). As of now, we don't actually know what a "correct" unit is (CA would be the official source on that).
2. Publishing measurements across all/a large sampling of units gives us a better idea of the degree of variation between units (and, relating back to point 1 will provide us a better idea of what a correct unit should be). Publishing measurements just for the selected units would be useful as well; it would give us more insight into how these differences appeared on CA's more accurate and consistent testing gear/process.
3. How is it not verifiable when other users have noticed the same issues? I have no qualms with CA, but there is some evidence of unit variation.
4. Different people hear differently/listen to different music, so I definitely don't consider this issue to be a systemic one.

I'm really only chiming up because the whole anti-CA conspiracy theory thing is starting to get annoying. I'm just here to browse around and get some good gear. Are the views of newer users/transplants from other communities invalid or manufactured just because they don't agree with yours?

 

[jeffreyw311]

My thoughts about this is that if defective units in Singapore were found then he should have contacted Campfire Audio, ASAP.
That is what a professional reviewer would have done.
The store should also have been contacted, if that was the case.

I'm still not sure about the time line, why wait so long? Campfire Audio are a reputable company with a lot at stake with each release, just like many other earphone companies. One doesn't just trash them without first finding out what is going on. I have seen professional reviews where the reviewer states that the were sent a defective unit, and it was replaced. Never saw that written about Campfire in any of the countless reviews I have read. Either way, the reviewer reached out to the company with their concerns. That is the professional thing to do.

Let me ask you this: which one of the three is defective in your mind.

I don't know where the struggle to comprehend the issue at hand is. The problem isn't that two are defective, the problem is the there is product variation so you have no idea which one is the representative model.

 

[Currawong]

Impressions thread here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/campfire-audio-solaris-impressions-thread.896460/

 

[crinacle]

My thoughts about this is that if defective units in Singapore were found then he should have contacted Campfire Audio, ASAP.
That is what a professional reviewer would have done.
The store should also have been contacted, if that was the case.

I'm still not sure about the time line, why wait so long? Campfire Audio are a reputable company with a lot at stake with each release, just like many other earphone companies. One doesn't just trash them without first finding out what is going on. I have seen professional reviews where the reviewer states that the were sent a defective unit, and it was replaced. Never saw that written about Campfire in any of the countless reviews I have read. Either way, the reviewer reached out to the company with their concerns. That is the professional thing to do.

Ken made it perfectly clear the tools he uses for his measurements, I completely trust that they put out a quality product with top notch QC.

• I am not a “professional reviewer”. I don’t get paid for this.
• I have zero obligation to Campfire as they have not provided me with any units. Though on that note, I do have a small obligation to the stores that I frequent as they are the ones giving me the opportunity to test gear.
• I was not aware of significant variations until the testing of the third unit. If I were aware right from the start, maybe everything will play out differently.
• Again, I was not sent a unit. The usual “reviewer privileges” are not at play here.

 

[tusing]

This is a completely legitimate take. One person's opinion amongst many.
The whole FR variance debacle, is so overblown and sensationalized, that what the iem actually sounds like has been completely obscured by it all.
If you don't like it, don't buy it.
It'll sound different to you based on what signatures you are used to.
We all have our preferences.

I think this is pretty disingenuous. FR objectively tells us the majority of what the headphone produces. In other words, the FR to a large degree is what the headphone sounds like!

The whole issue right now is that we can’t trust any subjective experiences because the measurements are so different from one another. Did that experience describe Sample 1, Sample 2, or Sample 3? Which one will you get? We’ll never know until we have consistency.

 

[Kitechaser]

I just have to ask. How many sony IER-Z1R demos were measured before it was rated 4 months before release?
I myself am not in the camp of blindly trusting reviewers, in any industry, and not just this particular one.
Especially when the outcome is so unprofessionally handled.
A simple call to campfire could have gotten to the bottom of this issue.
And I have to call into question the reviewer's claim that he was not trying to blow this up on head-fi, and just posted to his own subreddit, that is such a copout.
The group of people that follow him, did not take more than 2 minutes after that post to rush down here and start harassing everyone.
This was poorly handled to say the least. And calls more into question his own credibility.
The burden of proof is not on campfire, but on the person making the claims.
One of his followers told me to catch a flight to singapore and measure the 3 demo units for myself.
Maybe he should cancel his trip to Australia and do the same.