[rutter]

The interesting thing is that this shouldn't be that confusable. From the words I see everyone using here we all seem to understand soundstage as the amount of space covered by the sound coming out of a headphone or iem. Imaging, separation, etc. seem to be separate terms to describe sound within the soundstage and anyway all everyone has been talking about ranges from small to vastly bigger.

 

[damart81]

Selling my Solaris for those who are interested:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-campfire-solaris.902308/

 

[rutter]

https://earphonia.com/earphone-review/campfire-audio-solaris-review/

Check out the first listed pro. Too good! That certainly sets our mark for superlative soundstage in no uncertain terms.

Read the further descriptions on page 4. Tell me that the clowns who have the wherewithal to have a website and draw attention just made an innocent mistake.

 

[KevlarCoatedIEM]

https://earphonia.com/earphone-review/campfire-audio-solaris-review/

Check out the first listed pro. Too good! That certainly sets our mark for superlative soundstage in no uncertain terms.

Read the further descriptions on page 4. Tell me that the clowns who have the wherewithal to have a website and draw attention just made an innocent mistake.

There are a lot of grammatical errors and unclear buzzwords for an English-language site that I'm supposed to take seriously, guess those are just innocent mistakes too.

What surprises me is that they used Final E tips in their review. Having tried those on other IEMs, I can say that Final E tips do everything but increase soundstage and imaging. That, and the grammar, combined with the copious amount of buzzwords I see in that review ("signature fullness and vastness of expanse"? "well managed and always sounding musical"? "pure with an organic natural type feel"? ...what?), and I'm gonna say that pretty much everyone in this thread can give far better impressions than that abomination of a review does lol.

 

[sorrick]

That's cool and all, but when I briefly tried out the Utopia I was surprised by how intimate it was (all I knew about this model before trying was that it's supposed to be OMG good, but no specifics). The Utopia does have a certain je ne sais quoi which I enjoyed, but I would definitely say its stage is smaller than the Solaris'.

My HD600 has an obviously smaller soundstage than my Andromeda (which has a smaller stage than the Solaris), so your theory might have some reasoning behind it, but it doesn't match what my ears are hearing.

I think we may be using the same words to mean different things. When I talk about soundstage I am talking about the complete 3 dimensional space in which sound is perceived to be occurring (the outer edges of the room/venue), which is distinct from instrument/band placement or how far away from the instrument/band you are (things I associate more with imaging and presentation). We may also just hear differently. I do not have the HD600, but I do have a pair of HD6XXs, which are based on the HD650s, and to my ears, the soundstage on them is significantly more open and expansive than any of my closed iems (including my Solaris) out of my hugo2 (or even my mojo). I haven't used the HD6XX with my SP1000M so can't say one way or the other there.

 

[sorrick]

@sorrick since I see you have both would you consider the Atlas and Solaris to make a nice complementary pair? I've heard that they are but I'm curious to hear from as many people who own both as possible. TIA!

Yes, they complement each other quite well. They are actually both pretty good for all types of music, but the Solaris is more layered and "technical", though still engaging, while the atlas is more in your face and emotional. Atlas is more forgiving and warmer, while Solaris is comparatively more neutral and analytical. I would be happy with either, but am glad I have both

 

[rutter]

There are a lot of grammatical errors and unclear buzzwords for an English-language site that I'm supposed to take seriously, guess those are just innocent mistakes too.

What surprises me is that they used Final E tips in their review. Having tried those on other IEMs, I can say that Final E tips do everything but increase soundstage and imaging. That, and the grammar, combined with the copious amount of buzzwords I see in that review ("signature fullness and vastness of expanse"? "well managed and always sounding musical"? "pure with an organic natural type feel"? ...what?), and I'm gonna say that pretty much everyone in this thread can give far better impressions than that abomination of a review does lol.

I see some of those words and phrases in reviews on other sites as well as the more formal user reviews here. But damn if I have ever seen Huge Grand Scale Expansive Staging of epic scale that is supposed to be less "expansive" than the HD650. They'd do just as good a job selling the drugs they are on as the iems. No kidding micro-doses cure depression. Macro doses should raise the dead.

Yes, they complement each other quite well. They are actually both pretty good for all types of music, but the Solaris is more layered and "technical", though still engaging, while the atlas is more in your face and emotional. Atlas is more forgiving and warmer, while Solaris is comparatively more neutral and analytical. I would be happy with either, but am glad I have both

What do you mean more emotional? And with the Solaris being analytical that's HD800(S) fear territory. I guess Audiophonicalistic was onto something with having a tube in a portable amplifier.

 

[sorrick]

What do you mean more emotional? And with the Solaris being analytical that's HD800(S) fear territory. I guess Audiophonicalistic was onto something with having a tube in a portable amplifier.

The atlas is more emotional in the sense that the sound is big and bold. Impactful, wall of sound presentation that really gets your head bobbing and feet tapping. Although there is plenty of detail if you look for it, the atlas’ presentation is not about being perfectly accurate or calling attention to every little detail.

The operative word in my reference to the Solaris as more neutral and analytical is “comparatively”. The Solaris is not an overly analytical headphone, which i find is often associated with headphones with an upper mids, treble, and detail focus. The Solaris is not that. It is engaging, musical, and has impactful bass, but compared with the atlas, and because of its excellent layering and separation, the Solaris is a headphone that makes it easy to look at all the different parts of a track and pick out the details, should you want to do that. Indeed, as others have commented, the thing that is exceptional about the Solaris is that it does everything very very well, even though it may not be the absolute best iem at any one aspect.

 

[Jackpot77]

So any more precise word choices or descriptions to give an absolute rather than a relative idea of the Solaris' soundstage? Is there anything a much more expensive iem like the Solaris does versus say the HD650 that prospective buyers should be looking forward to or do you spend the premium for practicality? I'm getting lost. Things are starting to sound like toys for the rich rather than reasonable return for money. Your Audeze iem statements are curious too as you went from a $1500 iem not competing against $300 full-size headphones to a $2500 iem competing against similarly expensive full-size headphones.

Think you hit the nail on the head with the value comment. High end IEMs are definitely in the diminishing returns category. To be honest, the difference in SQ between an excellent $300 IEM (say the Flares Pro 2 or Ibasso IT01S) and a $1000+ IEMn is a couple of orders less than the difference between a $100 IEM and a $300 one. You are definitely getting into marginal gain territory once you get over the $300 or so barrier, so while the TOTL are better sounding, the cost for improvement is disproportionate.

I'm comfortable rating the Solaris as up there with the best and most enjoyable IEMs I've ever heard (both technically and more importantly musically), and they compete well in comparison to similarly priced IEMs. Where the value argument falls over is justifying the price of ANY IEM in the $1k+ bracket, when if you're being objective, 90% of the performance can be obtained for a third of the price.

 

[Jackpot77]

Also, I'd say the key words to describe the general house sound of the Campfire range would be natural, followed by musical. Their models generally have bass where it exists in a track, and sound full bodied rather than thin or etched.

 

[Music junky]

Super lutz.

 

[CreditingKarma]

The soundstage of the Focal Clear and Audeze LCD-X is not good. Focal headphones are known for having an "intimate presentation", which is a euphemism for we can't do a spacious soundstage. To put it bluntly, the Focal Clear sounded like an ordinary headphone on steroids to me, not the sort of thing a normal person would expect at $1500 (...perhaps incorrectly assuming I'm a normal person). People tend to describe the LCD-X as having some soundstage but it's only notable in that on its own it doesn't sound cluttered (it can sound that way versus the HD800(S), which on the flipside sounds dry with seriously inferior vocals by comparison, nice separation though). Frankly, in terms of soundstage I'm not entirely certain there is any significant difference between the LCD-X and the HD650. Sonarworks EQ acted as a decrappifier for the LCD-X. If you're going to argue that EQ minimizes the differences between headphones then you might as well start arguing that the market shouldn't exist due to EQ. I've heard what happens when you more properly power a headphone even though you may be able to get the volume more than high enough otherwise. I had a Jotunheim paired with an HD800S and unbalanced the result was poor, there for instance being a cavity in the "presentation"/soundstage. It should be the sort of thing where people would say there's a wide soundstage but poor positioning and imaging. Balanced made a big difference for the HD800S. The HD650 is a very different headphone due to its sensitivity, and it doesn't have the soundstage the HD800S makes its name on. Anyway, if the Solaris is between the LCD-X and Focal Clear in terms of soundstage too that's ordinary but at least iems deserve some forgiveness for practicality. I really don't understand prices in this niche higher-end headphone market for the return and I hope it's not a simple case of producers exploiting an unwitting group of people with disposable income. Then again I think Focal sell speakers for much more money.

I'll probably end up buying the Solaris in a few weeks when I have the money and hear what happens. Worst case scenario I resell them here or return them, best case scenario it's a clear, detailed, impactful in proper moderation sound that is portable with sufficient sonic space and good positioning for refined enjoyment. I am expecting more in terms of definition than the HD650. Initially I won't have a dap and don't know if I'll be using the Magni to plug them so I might just go through my computer and ipod, hopefully nothing awful happens with output impedance.

I really can't compare an IEM to an open back full size headphone in regards to sound stage. The only comparison that I can make is against my JH Roxanne. I do consider the solaris to have a wider soundstage than the Roxannes. I think that the Solaris has the ability to punch above its' price range. I actually prefer it over the 64 audio Tia Fourte. When I was comparing it in regards to the tonality and frequency response. What are you looking for in an IEM and headphone? My wife has an hd6xx which is very similar to the hd650. I find the solaris much more resolving and prefer the sound signature of it over the HD6xx. I will say that I heard the HD6xx paired with a Hugo TT2 and they sounded really good and the soundstage on them really opened up compared to the equipment that I currently have at home.

As for the HD800s not sounding great out of the SE output of the jotunheim that is the case for most of the schiit gear. From my experience they put more effort into the balanced outputs of the gear that they ship with balanced outs.

When you get to the higher end of headphones and speakers it is more about the sound signature that a person is looking for. I think that there are many of us that own multiple higher end cans and iems for this reason. I find myself reaching for the LCD 4z and solaris most of the time. If I am in the mood for something different I have the clears or LCD X. This hobby is all about what you like in sound and what you are comfortable spending on a system they sky is the limit with audio especially when you start to talk about speaker setups. As long as what you have brings you joy and lets you enjoy the music that is what it is all about in the end.

 

[fokta]

my Gummies alrd come



will give impression in the moment


Now I will never get the wrong side. .

 

[Rockwell75]

The atlas is more emotional in the sense that the sound is big and bold. Impactful, wall of sound presentation that really gets your head bobbing and feet tapping.

I haven't tried the Solaris (though I am hoping to tomorrow) but I can totally vouch for this comment about the Atlas. It's totally changed how I listen to my music. Previously IEMs for me were simply a means to and end-- I used them to listen to my music. Now it's the other way around-- I use my music to partake in the wonderfully engaging sound of the Atlas. I could be wrong but I am lead to believe that this emotional investment piece is one of the key features of the Campfire sound as a whole, which is one of the many reasons I've become a bit of the fanboy in the last few months.

 

[rutter]

Well when you try it tell us if you find it engaging and emotional at its core but with some differences. Are you going to be listening to a burnt in unit on the same stuff as you listen to the Atlas?

By the way, any reason to buy the Solaris from a particular place, say the campfire website vs headphones.com?