Campfire - Solaris
Mar 14, 2019 at 7:15 AM Post #4,036 of 12,035
Mine come in perfect shape... no defect or anything on my Solaris nor Polaris...

just post here or send email, CA support usually will comeback to you....

Even in Polaris Thread, they supported good there...
I just send them an email. I will keep you guys updated Thanks again, I have purchased alot of TOTL iems. and Campfire Audio if one of the last companies that i would think to have such defects. abit disappointing to be honest for my first CA iem
 
Mar 14, 2019 at 9:47 AM Post #4,037 of 12,035
If I was to compare to my current cans. I would say Solaris is somewhere between the LCD x and focal clear. It has a very true to life tonality where instruments sound as they would live. The soundstage is good I would say that it is a bit better than my jh roxannes.

I drive them with my sp1000cu around 10 -20 out of 150 on the volume control. They are easy to drive but highly sensitive so proper matching with a dap or amp is important. You need a low output impedance I do use the alo cv5 with am iematch from time to time and it also gets the job done.

If you were comparing the hd650 to the lcdx with sonarworks. It would be expected to minimize the sound difference as the plugin is designed to make everything sound "flat".

I do think that there is a difference with amps and dacs. The hd650 scales well with better gear and needs some power to sound it's best. Yes they can get loud but it is also about how power is delivered. A more powerful amp will give better bass control and dynamics. I recently listened to them out of a hugo tt2 at a store while auditioning it and I was amazed at how much better the 650 sounded. I am interested to get my tt2 and see how the rest of my cans scale with it.

If you have a chance I would recommend auditioning the Solaris and seeing if you like it. That way you are not wasting you money. I really love mine and would not part with it.

P.S. If you get a chance I recommend you try the LCD 4z if you liked the X. I think they are a remarkable headphone and I might finally be at my end game setup for the foreseeable future with them and the tt2 when it gets here. Well maybe I will add the mscaler too.

The soundstage of the Focal Clear and Audeze LCD-X is not good. Focal headphones are known for having an "intimate presentation", which is a euphemism for we can't do a spacious soundstage. To put it bluntly, the Focal Clear sounded like an ordinary headphone on steroids to me, not the sort of thing a normal person would expect at $1500 (...perhaps incorrectly assuming I'm a normal person). People tend to describe the LCD-X as having some soundstage but it's only notable in that on its own it doesn't sound cluttered (it can sound that way versus the HD800(S), which on the flipside sounds dry with seriously inferior vocals by comparison, nice separation though). Frankly, in terms of soundstage I'm not entirely certain there is any significant difference between the LCD-X and the HD650. Sonarworks EQ acted as a decrappifier for the LCD-X. If you're going to argue that EQ minimizes the differences between headphones then you might as well start arguing that the market shouldn't exist due to EQ. I've heard what happens when you more properly power a headphone even though you may be able to get the volume more than high enough otherwise. I had a Jotunheim paired with an HD800S and unbalanced the result was poor, there for instance being a cavity in the "presentation"/soundstage. It should be the sort of thing where people would say there's a wide soundstage but poor positioning and imaging. Balanced made a big difference for the HD800S. The HD650 is a very different headphone due to its sensitivity, and it doesn't have the soundstage the HD800S makes its name on. Anyway, if the Solaris is between the LCD-X and Focal Clear in terms of soundstage too that's ordinary but at least iems deserve some forgiveness for practicality. I really don't understand prices in this niche higher-end headphone market for the return and I hope it's not a simple case of producers exploiting an unwitting group of people with disposable income. Then again I think Focal sell speakers for much more money.

I'll probably end up buying the Solaris in a few weeks when I have the money and hear what happens. Worst case scenario I resell them here or return them, best case scenario it's a clear, detailed, impactful in proper moderation sound that is portable with sufficient sonic space and good positioning for refined enjoyment. I am expecting more in terms of definition than the HD650. Initially I won't have a dap and don't know if I'll be using the Magni to plug them so I might just go through my computer and ipod, hopefully nothing awful happens with output impedance.

Solaris are ez to drive and you'll want to look for something that has minimal hiss. Personally, the hd650 sound good but the signature is different than solaris. As someone pointed out solaris is closer to focal clear than 650. I own both clear and 650 and 100% agree. 650 is darker, warm in the bass and mids and the clear is pretty dang neutral. Never heard the hd800 but people on focal forum saying the clear is equivalent. If they're a different sound signature then it's hard to compare because its personal preference where one performs in areas vs the other. Plus it's an open back vs iem...

I like iem in general cause I dont like wearing headphones very long. Also, I'd rather listen to darude sandstorm with solaris then a bass heavy iem but that's because I much prefer a neutral signature, I want to be in the studio with my music. Many people want that bass for edm tracks which is fine so if you need that bass then get the atlas. I used to own the atlas and it reminded me of being in a live venue while the dj was spinning.

I never associated the 650 with darkness or warmth, which are usually associated with non-X Audeze headphones and those things are icky to me. I think the 650 is solid all-around, terrific value for the money tied to the awful value of many/most more expensive headphones, but there is an improvement in everything to be had, unfortunately by combining traits of different headphones rather than having those traits in one headphone worth the money. Anyway, the "tonality" I guess it is of the Clear was fine from what I recall, the general strength of the sound is what got me, in addition to the "intimate presentation". The Focal sound is sort of piercing, for me I still don't enjoy listening at a low volume and when you turn up the volume it's kind of unbearable. Ironically, take the Clear, a headphone that people describe as "dynamic" and an exceptional fit for livelier music like "edm" (much of which I think is inane trash to be placed in a much different pile from good techno/trance/dance music) I found to be the worst fit I heard. That all-across punch of the sound prevented me from listening. I figured the Clear would be popular with people who listen to tamer music that the headphones make livelier, like jazz and vocal bar music. From what I've seen the Solaris isn't described the same way. The Atlas seems more like it but the focus tends to be on the bass, which could well be something I find excessive for all I know.

Sennheiser makes some really comfortable headphones by the way. I can't say that I have any problems wearing theirs for a long time. Audeze is at the other extreme, I can't blame you if you had one of theirs. I thought the Clear was ok, not necessarily a snug fit but not heavy. Maybe you get hot or moist spots eventually.

PS

Here's perhaps an interesting analogy for this little higher end ear-focused audio market or industry. Anyone else not an art person? Like you're genuinely confused by the art and people who really like it, especially those who'll pay millions to own something you just don't find awfully good. I was at the art museum in DC yesterday and finally saw the anti-foil to "great art", which was there for contrast too. Dutch oil painting from the 17th and 18th century. Not all of them were great but there were at least three paintings there that you can start throwing the word masterful over. I virtually put my nose on one painting and was told to step back, a foot away I couldn't make out some of the significant detail. The realism and the execution not to smear, the relatively crowded scenes depicted (people in front of houses with animals in a populated setting), to some extent even the colors were generally more vivid, it was clear those people had the time and developed the skill, and had the values for some truly exceptional art work. Their painting reminded me of my still overpriced $2k 4k IPS monitor while the rest of the stuff at the museum (and the Mona Lisa and plenty of other crap you'd find strewn across Europe and in private collections) was like my performance 1920x1080 TN monitor. If I had the money I'd actually buy some of their paintings. There is one very easy way to tell a good Dutch oil painting from that period apart from everything else and worse Dutch oil paintings from that period- the other stuff looks smeared. That, and the good Dutch oil paintings have expressive dogs the size of fingernails. Clearly those people took art to a more proper level for the praise. The only detraction I can think of is that the paintings become too realistic and lack some of the abstraction that can be deemed evocative.

Expensive headphones are kind of like great artwork. Sadly a lot of people can't help themselves but to fling praise at stuff that's hard to understand, to present it intimately/put it mildly. But true higher achievement should be possible.
 
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Mar 14, 2019 at 10:07 AM Post #4,038 of 12,035
The soundstage of the Focal Clear and Audeze LCD-X is not good. Focal headphones are known for having an "intimate presentation", which is a euphemism for we can't do a spacious soundstage. To put it bluntly, the Focal Clear sounded like an ordinary headphone on steroids to me, not the sort of thing a normal person would expect at $1500 (...perhaps incorrectly assuming I'm a normal person). People tend to describe the LCD-X as having some soundstage but it's only notable in that on its own it doesn't sound cluttered (it can sound that way versus the HD800(S), which on the flipside sounds dry with seriously inferior vocals by comparison, nice separation though). Frankly, in terms of soundstage I'm not entirely certain there is any significant difference between the LCD-X and the HD650. Sonarworks EQ acted as a decrappifier for the LCD-X. If you're going to argue that EQ minimizes the differences between headphones then you might as well start arguing that the market shouldn't exist due to EQ. I've heard what happens when you more properly power a headphone even though you may be able to get the volume more than high enough otherwise. I had a Jotunheim paired with an HD800S and unbalanced the result was poor, there for instance being a cavity in the "presentation"/soundstage. It should be the sort of thing where people would say there's a wide soundstage but poor positioning and imaging. Balanced made a big difference for the HD800S. The HD650 is a very different headphone due to its sensitivity, and it doesn't have the soundstage the HD800S makes its name on. Anyway, if the Solaris is between the LCD-X and Focal Clear in terms of soundstage too that's ordinary but at least iems deserve some forgiveness for practicality. I really don't understand prices in this niche higher-end headphone market for the return and I hope it's not a simple case of producers exploiting an unwitting group of people with disposable income. Then again I think Focal sell speakers for much more money.

I'll probably end up buying the Solaris in a few weeks when I have the money and hear what happens. Worst case scenario I resell them here or return them, best case scenario it's a clear, detailed, impactful in proper moderation sound that is portable with sufficient sonic space and good positioning for refined enjoyment. I am expecting more in terms of definition than the HD650. Initially I won't have a dap and don't know if I'll be using the Magni to plug them so I might just go through my computer and ipod, hopefully nothing awful happens with output impedance.



I never associated the 650 with darkness or warmth, which are usually associated with non-X Audeze headphones and those things are icky to me. I think the 650 is solid all-around, terrific value for the money tied to the awful value of many/most more expensive headphones, but there is an improvement in everything to be had, unfortunately by combining traits of different headphones rather than having those traits in one headphone worth the money. Anyway, the "tonality" I guess it is of the Clear was fine from what I recall, the general strength of the sound is what got me, in addition to the "intimate presentation". The Focal sound is sort of piercing, for me I still don't enjoy listening at a low volume and when you turn up the volume it's kind of unbearable. Ironically, take the Clear, a headphone that people describe as "dynamic" and an exceptional fit for livelier music like "edm" (much of which I think is inane trash to be placed in a much different pile from good techno/trance/dance music) I found to be the worst fit I heard. That all-across punch of the sound prevented me from listening. I figured the Clear would be popular with people who listen to tamer music that the headphones make livelier, like jazz and vocal bar music. From what I've seen the Solaris isn't described the same way. The Atlas seems more like it but the focus tends to be on the bass, which could well be something I find excessive for all I know.

Sennheiser makes some really comfortable headphones by the way. I can't say that I have any problems wearing theirs for a long time. Audeze is at the other extreme, I can't blame you if you had one of theirs. I thought the Clear was ok, not necessarily a snug fit but not heavy. Maybe you get hot or moist spots eventually.

PS

Here's perhaps an interesting analogy for this little higher end ear-focused audio market or industry. Anyone else not an art person? Like you're genuinely confused by the art and people who really like it, especially those who'll pay millions to own something you just don't find awfully good. I was at the art museum in DC yesterday and finally saw the anti-foil to "great art", which was there for contrast too. Dutch oil painting from the 17th and 18th century. Not all of them were great but there were at least three paintings there that you can start throwing the word masterful over. I virtually put my nose on one painting and was told to step back, a foot away I couldn't make out some of the significant detail. The realism and the execution not to smear, the relatively crowded scenes depicted (people in front of houses with animals in a populated setting), to some extent even the colors were generally more vivid, it was clear those people had the time and developed the skill, and had the values for some truly exceptional art work. Their painting reminded me of my still overpriced $2k 4k IPS monitor while the rest of the stuff at the museum (and the Mona Lisa and plenty of other crap you'd find strewn across Europe and in private collections) was like my performance 1920x1080 TN monitor. If I had the money I'd actually buy some of their paintings. There is one very easy way to tell a good Dutch oil painting from that period apart from everything else and worse Dutch oil paintings from that period- the other stuff looks smeared. That, and the good Dutch oil paintings have expressive dogs the size of fingernails. Clearly those people took art to a more proper level for the praise. The only detraction I can think of is that the paintings become too realistic and lack some of the abstraction that can be deemed evocative.

Expensive headphones are kind of like great artwork. Sadly a lot of people can't help themselves but to fling praise at stuff that's hard to understand, to present it intimately/put it mildly. But true higher achievement should be possible.

Yeah I see what you're saying. I have the 650 and they're one of the first headphones that I've had and still use them a lot. Have the clears too and like them a lot as well but I am running them through a cv5 so I think it helps.
 
Mar 14, 2019 at 10:25 AM Post #4,041 of 12,035
Well, I think harshness refers to peaky treble and a lower end bias tames it. What I heard from the Clear was literally just strong sound across the frequency. I needed a muffler. That $800 portable amplifier has an interesting description. Typically such products incorporate a DAC as it's supposed to be a portable solution and the DAC is supposed to be an important part. If a mixed tube solid state design somehow acting simultaneously is supposed to improve spatial qualities while tightening bass and providing great detail I wonder why this isn't being done with desktop amplifiers. Aside from the iFi iPro iCan I haven't seen another hybrid amplifier. But I guess descriptions are descriptions.
 
Mar 14, 2019 at 12:40 PM Post #4,042 of 12,035
The soundstage of the Focal Clear and Audeze LCD-X is not good. Focal headphones are known for having an "intimate presentation", which is a euphemism for we can't do a spacious soundstage. To put it bluntly, the Focal Clear sounded like an ordinary headphone on steroids to me, not the sort of thing a normal person would expect at $1500 (...perhaps incorrectly assuming I'm a normal person). People tend to describe the LCD-X as having some soundstage but it's only notable in that on its own it doesn't sound cluttered (it can sound that way versus the HD800(S), which on the flipside sounds dry with seriously inferior vocals by comparison, nice separation though). Frankly, in terms of soundstage I'm not entirely certain there is any significant difference between the LCD-X and the HD650. Sonarworks EQ acted as a decrappifier for the LCD-X. If you're going to argue that EQ minimizes the differences between headphones then you might as well start arguing that the market shouldn't exist due to EQ. I've heard what happens when you more properly power a headphone even though you may be able to get the volume more than high enough otherwise. I had a Jotunheim paired with an HD800S and unbalanced the result was poor, there for instance being a cavity in the "presentation"/soundstage. It should be the sort of thing where people would say there's a wide soundstage but poor positioning and imaging. Balanced made a big difference for the HD800S. The HD650 is a very different headphone due to its sensitivity, and it doesn't have the soundstage the HD800S makes its name on. Anyway, if the Solaris is between the LCD-X and Focal Clear in terms of soundstage too that's ordinary but at least iems deserve some forgiveness for practicality. I really don't understand prices in this niche higher-end headphone market for the return and I hope it's not a simple case of producers exploiting an unwitting group of people with disposable income. Then again I think Focal sell speakers for much more money.

I'll probably end up buying the Solaris in a few weeks when I have the money and hear what happens. Worst case scenario I resell them here or return them, best case scenario it's a clear, detailed, impactful in proper moderation sound that is portable with sufficient sonic space and good positioning for refined enjoyment. I am expecting more in terms of definition than the HD650. Initially I won't have a dap and don't know if I'll be using the Magni to plug them so I might just go through my computer and ipod, hopefully nothing awful happens with output impedance.



I never associated the 650 with darkness or warmth, which are usually associated with non-X Audeze headphones and those things are icky to me. I think the 650 is solid all-around, terrific value for the money tied to the awful value of many/most more expensive headphones, but there is an improvement in everything to be had, unfortunately by combining traits of different headphones rather than having those traits in one headphone worth the money. Anyway, the "tonality" I guess it is of the Clear was fine from what I recall, the general strength of the sound is what got me, in addition to the "intimate presentation". The Focal sound is sort of piercing, for me I still don't enjoy listening at a low volume and when you turn up the volume it's kind of unbearable. Ironically, take the Clear, a headphone that people describe as "dynamic" and an exceptional fit for livelier music like "edm" (much of which I think is inane trash to be placed in a much different pile from good techno/trance/dance music) I found to be the worst fit I heard. That all-across punch of the sound prevented me from listening. I figured the Clear would be popular with people who listen to tamer music that the headphones make livelier, like jazz and vocal bar music. From what I've seen the Solaris isn't described the same way. The Atlas seems more like it but the focus tends to be on the bass, which could well be something I find excessive for all I know.

Sennheiser makes some really comfortable headphones by the way. I can't say that I have any problems wearing theirs for a long time. Audeze is at the other extreme, I can't blame you if you had one of theirs. I thought the Clear was ok, not necessarily a snug fit but not heavy. Maybe you get hot or moist spots eventually.

PS

Here's perhaps an interesting analogy for this little higher end ear-focused audio market or industry. Anyone else not an art person? Like you're genuinely confused by the art and people who really like it, especially those who'll pay millions to own something you just don't find awfully good. I was at the art museum in DC yesterday and finally saw the anti-foil to "great art", which was there for contrast too. Dutch oil painting from the 17th and 18th century. Not all of them were great but there were at least three paintings there that you can start throwing the word masterful over. I virtually put my nose on one painting and was told to step back, a foot away I couldn't make out some of the significant detail. The realism and the execution not to smear, the relatively crowded scenes depicted (people in front of houses with animals in a populated setting), to some extent even the colors were generally more vivid, it was clear those people had the time and developed the skill, and had the values for some truly exceptional art work. Their painting reminded me of my still overpriced $2k 4k IPS monitor while the rest of the stuff at the museum (and the Mona Lisa and plenty of other crap you'd find strewn across Europe and in private collections) was like my performance 1920x1080 TN monitor. If I had the money I'd actually buy some of their paintings. There is one very easy way to tell a good Dutch oil painting from that period apart from everything else and worse Dutch oil paintings from that period- the other stuff looks smeared. That, and the good Dutch oil paintings have expressive dogs the size of fingernails. Clearly those people took art to a more proper level for the praise. The only detraction I can think of is that the paintings become too realistic and lack some of the abstraction that can be deemed evocative.

Expensive headphones are kind of like great artwork. Sadly a lot of people can't help themselves but to fling praise at stuff that's hard to understand, to present it intimately/put it mildly. But true higher achievement should be possible.

If you are expecting to get more soundstage from a sealed sound-isolating IEM, regardless of price, as you do from an open pair of $300+ full-sized headphones (even an open headphone that has a relatively small soundstage), I think your search will end in disappointment. While some IEMs sound much more spacious than others, no isolating iem will give you a soundstage as expansive as open full sized headphones. If you are looking for soundstage that is approaching a full size headphone in a top tier IEM, really your only option is the Audeze LCDi4, which does (IMHO) equal some top-tier full sized headphones in the soundstage department (and most other areas as well); however, the i4s are open backed IEMs so they do not provide any isolation. With sound isolating IEMs, even TOTL models, whenever someone talks about expansive soundstage, there is an implied "for an iem" at the end of any statement.
 
Mar 14, 2019 at 12:58 PM Post #4,043 of 12,035
So any more precise word choices or descriptions to give an absolute rather than a relative idea of the Solaris' soundstage? Is there anything a much more expensive iem like the Solaris does versus say the HD650 that prospective buyers should be looking forward to or do you spend the premium for practicality? I'm getting lost. Things are starting to sound like toys for the rich rather than reasonable return for money. Your Audeze iem statements are curious too as you went from a $1500 iem not competing against $300 full-size headphones to a $2500 iem competing against similarly expensive full-size headphones.
 
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Mar 14, 2019 at 1:08 PM Post #4,044 of 12,035
If you are expecting to get more soundstage from a sealed sound-isolating IEM, regardless of price, as you do from an open pair of $300+ full-sized headphones (even an open headphone that has a relatively small soundstage), I think your search will end in disappointment. While some IEMs sound much more spacious than others, no isolating iem will give you a soundstage as expansive as open full sized headphones. If you are looking for soundstage that is approaching a full size headphone in a top tier IEM, really your only option is the Audeze LCDi4, which does (IMHO) equal some top-tier full sized headphones in the soundstage department (and most other areas as well); however, the i4s are open backed IEMs so they do not provide any isolation. With sound isolating IEMs, even TOTL models, whenever someone talks about expansive soundstage, there is an implied "for an iem" at the end of any statement.

That's cool and all, but when I briefly tried out the Utopia I was surprised by how intimate it was (all I knew about this model before trying was that it's supposed to be OMG good, but no specifics). The Utopia does have a certain je ne sais quoi which I enjoyed, but I would definitely say its stage is smaller than the Solaris'.

My HD600 has an obviously smaller soundstage than my Andromeda (which has a smaller stage than the Solaris), so your theory might have some reasoning behind it, but it doesn't match what my ears are hearing.
 
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Mar 14, 2019 at 1:13 PM Post #4,045 of 12,035
Like I said, Focal are known for their intimate presentations. :floatsmile: The thing about the Utopia is crispness, and the treble might also be even excessively sparkly. If you thought that it has a smaller soundstage than the Solaris that's a relief.
 
Mar 14, 2019 at 1:16 PM Post #4,046 of 12,035
That's cool and all, but when I briefly tried out the Utopia I was surprised by how intimate it was (all I knew about this model before trying was that it's supposed to be OMG good, but no specifics). The Utopia does have a certain je ne sais quoi which I enjoyed, but I would definitely say its stage is smaller than the Solaris'.

My HD600 has an obviously smaller soundstage than my Andromeda (which has a smaller stage than the Solaris), so your theory might have some reasoning behind it, but it doesn't match what my ears are hearing.

The Utopia's soundstage is smaller than the Solaris? You must be kidding. What are you driving the HD600's with?

That said, even if you're driving the HD600 on a smartphone, the soundstage should still be vastly larger than any IEM.

Like I said, Focal are known for their intimate presentations. :floatsmile: The thing about the Utopia is crispness, and the treble might also be even excessively sparkly. If you thought that it has a smaller soundstage than the Solaris that's a relief.

NO. As @sorrick mentioned above, the only IEM that even gets close to high end open back soundstaging is the LCDi4, and it takes a massively good amp to do that and the LCDi4 still has no depth whatsoever, even compared to the HD600.
 
Mar 14, 2019 at 1:25 PM Post #4,047 of 12,035
@sorrick since I see you have both would you consider the Atlas and Solaris to make a nice complementary pair? I've heard that they are but I'm curious to hear from as many people who own both as possible. TIA!
 
Mar 14, 2019 at 1:53 PM Post #4,048 of 12,035
The Utopia's soundstage is smaller than the Solaris? You must be kidding. What are you driving the HD600's with?

That said, even if you're driving the HD600 on a smartphone, the soundstage should still be vastly larger than any IEM.

I stand by what I said. Both the Utopia and the HD600 were powered by the Micro BL. If you're gonna tell me that I need some $5,000 amp to get the best out of these, I'm not gonna argue, but you were clearly joking with your smartphone remark.
 
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Mar 14, 2019 at 1:59 PM Post #4,049 of 12,035
I stand by what I said. Both the Utopia and the HD600 were powered by the Micro BL. If you're gonna tell me that I need some $5,000 amp to get the best out of these, I'm not gonna argue, but you were clearly joking with your smartphone remark.

Nope, not joking. Former HD600/800S/Utopia/LCDi4 owner here. Tried the Solaris a couple times, I really like it but I have too many CIEMs as is.

The Utopia's are very efficient and won't run into problems with the Micro BL. I don't know if what you perceive as "soundstage" is different from what soundstaging is, but no, the Solaris can't compete with any cans on soundstage, not even closed-back ones.
 
Mar 14, 2019 at 2:39 PM Post #4,050 of 12,035
I don't know if what you perceive as "soundstage" is different from what soundstaging is, but no, the Solaris can't compete with any cans on soundstage, not even closed-back ones.

Or perhaps what you perceive as "soundstage" is different from what soundstaging is. We should consider that as well. :wink: Another excellent reason why I want more science on the consumer side of the Hi-Fi audio field. If we had an objective measurement of soundstage others wouldn't have to rely on our subjective perceptions and interpretations. Or maybe it's like @rutter was saying and the bias is manipulated: people praise good art because they're told it's good by "influencers" (a much more appropriate title than "reviewers"), not because they understand it.
 

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