[WarriorAnt]

Sort of off topic but sort of on topic. Hope someone finds this interesting. 
 
http://audiophilereview.com/the-history-of-high-end-audio.html

 

[Shmitty]

Quote:

If you don't like "Sennheiser Veil", you'd better try Pionny Sx-x50 or x80 line. IMHO, SX-434 is a bit warm for Senn. You can also try Yammy or Technics integrate. Good luck!!
 

I do like a bit of a base tilt to be honest so would that make the SX-434 more favorable? My audiophile vocabulary would be in the D-(elementary grade) range. Some input on that DAC would be greatly appreciated I'm looking to spend no more then 140 on one and want it delivered before I go demo amps.

 

[Chris J]

Quote:

you guys are awesome.
thanks for the help.
great stuff

Did you get the owner's manual with your amp?
If you didn't this may help:
I found the owners manual for my CR-2020.
If you like I can scan it for you and e-mail it to you? Or anyone else who is interested.
 
The manual shows some interesting stuff:
Headphone jack output impedance is a whopping 330 ohms!  (manual includes a schematic, very fine lines so schematic may not scan very well).
The input switching network is completely passive which explains why you can use it with your Woo without turning on your Yammy.
 
 

 

[Meewoo]

Yamaha Documents http://sportsbil.com/yamaha/

 

[subzer0]

Quote:

 
Got the 2245 working.

Looks great!

 

[Rawrbington]

Quote:

 
 
The manual shows some interesting stuff:
Headphone jack output impedance is a whopping 330 ohms!  (manual includes a schematic, very fine lines so schematic may not scan very well).
The input switching network is completely passive which explains why you can use it with your Woo without turning on your Yammy.
 
 

wow.  didn't suspect that high.  figured in the 120-220 range,  but i guess thats better than the 540 or whatever some have.  whats the deal with orthos not being as particular with the output impedance of the amp?
 
it looks like the schematic for the 640 shows 1 220 resistor for positive and negaitve?  on each headphone jack(2)?
so does that mean 220 per or 440 or 880?!?!
 


Quote:

Yamaha Documents http://sportsbil.com/yamaha/

awesome thanks!
 
 
with the "tape loop" using the yam as a pass through to the woo, i can't tell if the sound is depricated a little bit.  maybe just a hair of the warmth or bottom end is missing.  and maybe the highs are a tiny bit sharper.
this could be 1 of 3 things.
1. my imagination
2. the second rca cable i have is the worst cheapest piece of crap availble
3. a tiny bit of signal is being lost in the yamaha pass through.
 

 

[Skylab]

With Otrthos, damping factor is a complete non issue, so only the delivered power matters, not any consideration of impedance mismatch resulting in a poor damping factor.

 

[Chris J]

Quote:

wow.  didn't suspect that high.  figured in the 120-220 range,  but i guess thats better than the 540 or whatever some have.  whats the deal with orthos not being as particular with the output impedance of the amp?
 
it looks like the schematic for the 640 shows 1 220 resistor for positive and negaitve?  on each headphone jack(2)?
so does that mean 220 per or 440 or 880?!?!

220 ohms for left, 220 ohms for right so the output impedance is 220 ohms.
I have no idea why they put in such a high value resistor...........pointless.
What if you are using a 32 ohm Grado?
 
 
Quote:

With Otrthos, damping factor is a complete non issue, so only the delivered power matters, not any consideration of impedance mismatch resulting in a poor damping factor.

So may as well have a low output impedance to reduce power loss.
 
 

 

[moodyrn]

You're looking at it all wrong. Putting a 220ohm resistor at the headphone out doesn't make the output impedance 220ohms. It's just for lowering the gain since the headphone out is derived from the speaker taps. Actually, if they used a value higher than that, it would be a better match for 32ohm grados. If they only used a 32ohm resistor, grados would be fried. For example if the amp had a power rating of 80wpc at 8ohm, then with the 220ohm resistors the output would still be 2.5-3 full watts which is plenty for anything short an he-6 and grados would probably hiss like crazy without an additional -20db button.
 
My fisher tube integrated used 330ohm resistors at the headphone out and the speaker out wpc is only 25watts, and the headphone out was still plenty powerful the drive most headphones. But I did swap them out with lower ohm resistors to drive a pair of he-5's I use to have. But I may put the 330ohms back in since I won't be powering anything like that out of the headphone out anymore.

 

[Rawrbington]

Quote:

You're looking at it all wrong. Putting a 220ohm resistor at the headphone out doesn't make the output impedance 220ohms. It's just for lowering the gain since the headphone out is derived from the speaker taps. Actually, if they used a value higher than that, it would be a better match for 32ohm grados. If they only used a 32ohm resistor, grados would be fried. For example if the amp had a power rating of 80wpc at 8ohm, then with the 220ohm resistors the output would still be 2.5-3 full watts which is plenty for anything short an he-6 and grados would probably hiss like crazy without an additional -20db button.
 

how do you figure out the output impedace of the HP jack?
 
and what kind of power do i get with the 220 ohm resistors if the rms power is 45 watts?
think it gets close to 2 watts?
enough for some he500 or lcd2?
 

 

[moodyrn]

Somewhere around 1.25 and 1.5. I don't have a lot of experience with the lcd2s, but it may be just enough to drive them. It should be perfectly fine with the he-500. You can always use a multimeter/ ohm meter to measure impedance.

 

[Rawrbington]

my only complaint about hte yamaha is she's a little sketchy when you first plug cans into her.  a channel might break up for a few seconds off and on, or the sound might just be a little scratchy for a few moments.  then... its nice and solid.
 
not sure what to make of it
 
right now i have my woo pre amping my yammy.
and i can get all CRAZY and plug in 3 cans at a time and observe the differences.
too bad i don't just have 2 pairs of hd 650s or 990 600 ohms.
 
but i will say the 990/600 out of the yamaha pre'd by the woo is almost comparable to the hd 650s out of the woo.
 
missing a good bit of detail and accuracy but tonally they are both very pleasing
 
edit: had to update the opinion on the comparability after an hour of listening

 

[moodyrn]

Sounds like the switches and controls could use a good shot of deoxit or similar contact cleaner.

 

[BmWr75]

Quote:

how do you figure out the output impedace of the HP jack?
 
and what kind of power do i get with the 220 ohm resistors if the rms power is 45 watts?
think it gets close to 2 watts?
enough for some he500 or lcd2?
 

Ohm's Law is V = I * R, where V = voltage, I = amperage and R = resistance
 
     or I = V / R is another way to state Ohm's Law.
 
Then, another useful equation is:  Power (P) = V * I
 
     So, P = V-squared / R if you substitute V / R for I in the equation above.
 
Let's now do the math on your receiver's headphone jack output..  Your receiver is rated to put out 45 watts (Power) at a load of 8 ohms (resistance) via the speaker outputs.    V-squared = 45 watts * 8 ohms, so V = 19 volts
 
Now we can calculate the Power output at the headphone jack using V = 19 volts and R = 220 ohms
 
P = (19*19)/220 = 1.6 watts at the headphone jack.
 
If I've messed this up, somebody speak up.

 

[moodyrn]

That's a very well explained answer. I didn't want to take the time to all of the math, but my guesstimate wasn't far off.