[SirMarc]

Just did some research, the sca-50 has the same phono stage as a PAT-5 ss pre amp, and the amp is a scaled down st-150. Wonder if I can find some beaters for cheap and send them to Van Alstine...

 

[ssrock64]

I used to own a PAT-4 (my pains with which were chronicled in this thread a year or two ago); what is the relationship between it and the PAT-5? Was the 4 a lower-end model, or did the 5 replace it?

 

[SirMarc]

Too be honest, I'm not sure. There seems to be some love for the PAS-3, which is tube, and the PAT-5, which is solid state. Read some pretty ugly things about earlier PATs though...

 

[ssrock64]

Yeah, my 4 was really harsh sounding. It worked with super warm equipment around it, but beyond that it wasn't much more than a paperweight on my shelves.

 

[SirMarc]

Just did a bit of research, the PAT 5 is supposed to be a significant improvement over the PAT 4 according to the audio press at the time. I can tell you the phono stage in my sca-50 is stellar, and its supposed to be the same as the PAT 5

 

[ssrock64]

Just did a bit of research, the PAT 5 is supposed to be a significant improvement over the PAT 4 according to the audio press at the time...

Thanks for doing the legwork for me. From my own searching, it appears that the PAT-5 (introduced 1974) was a direct replacement for the PAT-4 (introduced 1967). I guess I'll have to get my hands on one eventually.

 

[SirMarc]

No problem. Looking for myself too. Basically want a higher power sca-50 for my vinyl rig. Looks like a PAT-5 and ST-150 if I can find them...

 

[SirMarc]

There's some magic going on between my sca-50, thorens td145 and AT 440mla. Sounds phenomenal with my hd580's, but I want to drive some big hungry speakers and 25 watts isn't nearly enough...

 

[SirMarc]

Can anyone tell me how much better the phono stage is from a pioneer sx-550 to the 850 and up? Pretty impressed with the 550, but the phono stage isn't up to par.

 

[Skylab]

Yeah the PAT-4 was the very worst of early solid state sound. The PAT-5 was definitely better, although it wasn't the finest piece Dyna ever made. Their SS power amps, especially the Stereo 150 and the massive 400 were better sounding products from that era.

The phono stage in an SX-850 will definitely be better than the one in the 550. There was only so much Pioneer could offer at the SX-550's price point.

 

[ssrock64]

I've had good experiences with Pioneer from the SX-750 on up numerically, but as has already been mentioned, the best value in today's market is probably an 850.

 

[SirMarc]

Cool, thanks guys. Probably alot easier to find than a PAT-5 and ST-150. Probably alot cheaper too. What's the lowest model pioneer integrated worth looking at? As cool as they look, I don't need a tuner

 

[parbaked]

What's the lowest model pioneer integrated worth looking at? As cool as they look, I don't need a tuner

1974 Pioneer SA-7100
 
I much prefer the SA-7100/8100/9100 to the later integrated amps or any of the Pioneer receivers.

 

[SirMarc]

Cool, thanks

 

[jnorris]

Let me start off by stating that I am a avid fan of vintage audio equipment and own equipment from, among others, MacIntosh, Sumo, Hafler, Parasound, Advent, Pioneer, and Denon.  I also was an audio salesman from 1975 - 1981, a peak period for the manufacture of many of the components talked about in this forum.
 
IMO, just because it was manufactured back then doesn't mean it was good.  Pioneer, Kenwood, Marantz (especially Marantz by Superscope) and Sony were at best mid-fi components designed by committee and marketed to a rather un-sophiscated consumer on the basis of size, watts and the number of lights and buttons.  Sound quality was not a number one priority.  High-end audio was also at it's peak then, with massively over-engineered products that did one thing and did it well (amplify, pre-amplify, tune, etc.).  But because the un-sophisticated public couldn't hear the difference and thus couldn't rationalize the cash outlay, high end remained a niche market until it eventually evolved into home theater.
 
So here I am, reading posts which wax poetic about hardware that we laughed at back then, and then I look at some of the Altec, Cerwin-Vega, Bose, Pioneer, and Sansui speakers that are being used and I realize that many of the failings of the hardware are being homogenized by these low-end speakers.
 
It almost makes you wonder if these older components, when used to drive the practically non-existent load (in terms of high impedance, low current, low back-pressure) of most headphones, have actually found their niche as headphone amps.