[BitPerf Support]

Originally Posted by AppleheadMay /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Strange thing about my Dac (and this isn't only in BP, I downloaded a trial of some other software to confirm)
My dac is 192/24 + DSD 64&128. As I read, next to the DSD1792A dac chip it has a DSP chip that can upsample to 384/32 (even 48 as I read).
The software does recognize it as a 384/32 dac. You can't play 384 files through it though. It does play DSD 64&128 files.
Dac is Marantz NA-11S1, latest firmware.

 
When BitPerfect (or any other player, AFAIK) reports that it can recognize a DAC's capabilities, what it is really doing is polling the USB (or FireWire, or HDMI) format streams which the DAC announces during its connection handshake.  If the DAC announces a stream format that it doesn't actually support, that would count as a bug in my view!  In your case the DAC is apparently announcing a 32/384 stream that it doesn't support.  In BitPerfect, you have the option of protecting yourself by setting a maximum sample rate and maximum bit depth so that "bogus" streams can be avoided to a limited extent.
 
An inherent problem of the DoP format is that for DSD64 it uses a 24/176.4 PCM stream, which the DAC has to announce.  For DSD128 it is a 24/352.8 PCM stream.  However, as far as the computer is concerned, it has no way of knowing whether the DAC is announcing a DoP capability or a PCM capability.  Therefore, any DAC that supports DSD64 DoP really needs to also support 24/176.4 PCM, and likewise if it supports DSD128 DoP it really needs to support 24/352.8 PCM.  FYI, DSD256 DoP, if supported, would require a 24/705.6 PCM format!

 

[AppleheadMay]

It IS complicated but I do get the picture more or less.
 
Probably my Dac reports the maximum stream needed for DSD it can support.
Else it's that DSP chip's frequency it reports.
In any case, it all works fine with BitPerfect, as usual.  

 

[mvyrmnd]

I just wanted to pass on to the BitPerfect guys here that I dearly love your product. It's been a big step in my induction as an audiophile. Cheers!

 

[BitPerf Support]

Thank you! 

 

[Allanmarcus]

Does BitPerfect support CrossFeed? I asked them about it earlier this year, but I haven't really followed up. Seems like a "prefect" fit for BitPerfect and the crowd here. I even suggested they integrate the plug-in Canz3D.

 

[agentsim]

  Does BitPerfect support CrossFeed? I asked them about it earlier this year, but I haven't really followed up. Seems like a "prefect" fit for BitPerfect and the crowd here. I even suggested they integrate the plug-in Canz3D.

It is certainly something we're interested in, the question is in doing it right.
 
Canz3D is certainly one option. I'm hesistant to go that route because I'm not sure I like the idea of having BitPerfect's audio chain run any old 3rd party code. It is quite heavily optimized for a reason
 
The other option is trying to do it myself. The problem with this is understanding what exactly constitutes good crossfeed. I've yet to find an implementation (hardware or software) that I find compelling. I've started playing with HRTFs to simulate playing music through speakers in a room, but it didn't really work. There are some other varyingly fancy academic approaches to crossfeed that might be interesting, this app has few options: http://spatialaudio.net/ssr/. Unfortunately, I didn't really find that any of them "worked", at least for me.
 
So yes, BitPerfect is interested in crossfeed, but right now, we're not sure what direction to take.

 

[Allanmarcus]

It is certainly something we're interested in, the question is in doing it right.

Canz3D is certainly one option. I'm hesistant to go that route because I'm not sure I like the idea of having BitPerfect's audio chain run any old 3rd party code. It is quite heavily optimized for a reason

The other option is trying to do it myself. The problem with this is understanding what exactly constitutes good crossfeed. I've yet to find an implementation (hardware or software) that I find compelling. I've started playing with HRTFs to simulate playing music through speakers in a room, but it didn't really work. There are some other varyingly fancy academic approaches to crossfeed that might be interesting, this app has few options: http://spatialaudio.net/ssr/. Unfortunately, I didn't really find that any of them "worked", at least for me.

So yes, BitPerfect is interested in crossfeed, but right now, we're not sure what direction to take.

What about the basic crossfeed algorithms that seems very common?

Meier
Bauer
Chu Moy

Rockbox does a crossfeed. I think they are open source, so you can look at their code too.

I hope you implement something. Doesn't have to be fancy. Right now I use VOX sometimes when I want it, but I would rather use iTunes, and therefore bitperfect

 

[agentsim]

I guess it is a matter of personal preference, but I've always found those to be bad for sound quality and not to really solve the in-my-head problem.

 

[BirdManOfCT]

  Thank you! 

I just might have to try BitPerfect. Using a competitor's product and support is harder to find than 32-bit recordings.

 

[AppleheadMay]

  I guess it is a matter of personal preference, but I've always found those to be bad for sound quality and not to really solve the in-my-head problem.

 
Agentsim,
 
Is there any info you can give us on what's coming next for BitPerfect and DSD Matser?
Things I was thinking of are:
 
An optional eq for BP that can be turned on or off, headphone mode, dark mode icon.
And for DSD master the ability to rip the original DSD file from the hybrid file.
 
Any news you can give us on what's planned?

 

[agentsim]

 

  I guess it is a matter of personal preference, but I've always found those to be bad for sound quality and not to really solve the in-my-head problem.

 
Agentsim,
 
Is there any info you can give us on what's coming next for BitPerfect and DSD Matser?
Things I was thinking of are:
 
An optional eq for BP that can be turned on or off, headphone mode, dark mode icon.
And for DSD master the ability to rip the original DSD file from the hybrid file.
 
Any news you can give us on what's planned?

 
Sorry for taking such a long time to reply!
 
Next up for us is an update to DSD Master that will fix some outstanding bugs and also make conversions quite a bit faster. It will also set the stage for us to play with some new conversion filters.
 
As for BP, a dark mode icon will definitely be in the next update, but we'd also like to update the audio engine to make it a bit more efficient (that's currently beta level) as well as improve the stability of our interaction with iTunes. Unfortunately the reliability of iTunes' scripting interface seems to degrade with each version. We have some ideas for an overhaul that should both reduce CPU use and improve the reliability of communication, that idea is only just out of the proof-of-concept phase. An optional EQ is also on the radar; we're researching the highest fidelity way to accomplish it.
 
I'm curious, what you mean by a headphone mode?

 

[AppleheadMay]

   
Sorry for taking such a long time to reply!
 
Next up for us is an update to DSD Master that will fix some outstanding bugs and also make conversions quite a bit faster. It will also set the stage for us to play with some new conversion filters.
 
As for BP, a dark mode icon will definitely be in the next update, but we'd also like to update the audio engine to make it a bit more efficient (that's currently beta level) as well as improve the stability of our interaction with iTunes. Unfortunately the reliability of iTunes' scripting interface seems to degrade with each version. We have some ideas for an overhaul that should both reduce CPU use and improve the reliability of communication, that idea is only just out of the proof-of-concept phase. An optional EQ is also on the radar; we're researching the highest fidelity way to accomplish it.
 
I'm curious, what you mean by a headphone mode?

 
 
Ah, great to see both the BP and DSDMaster programs are still alive and kicking! 
I recently tried out one of the other programs again and couldn't get used to it.
 
With headphone mode I meant crossfeed. I'm usually not a big fan of it but some people seem to like it both in amps and software.
 
But if the app stays just as simple and effective as it is without the bells (eq) and whistles (crossfeed) I'd be just as happy!  

 

 

[agentsim]

 

   
Sorry for taking such a long time to reply!
 
Next up for us is an update to DSD Master that will fix some outstanding bugs and also make conversions quite a bit faster. It will also set the stage for us to play with some new conversion filters.
 
As for BP, a dark mode icon will definitely be in the next update, but we'd also like to update the audio engine to make it a bit more efficient (that's currently beta level) as well as improve the stability of our interaction with iTunes. Unfortunately the reliability of iTunes' scripting interface seems to degrade with each version. We have some ideas for an overhaul that should both reduce CPU use and improve the reliability of communication, that idea is only just out of the proof-of-concept phase. An optional EQ is also on the radar; we're researching the highest fidelity way to accomplish it.
 
I'm curious, what you mean by a headphone mode?

 
 
Ah, great to see both the BP and DSDMaster programs are still alive and kicking! 
I recently tried out one of the other programs again and couldn't get used to it.
 
With headphone mode I meant crossfeed. I'm usually not a big fan of it but some people seem to like it both in amps and software.
 
But if the app stays just as simple and effective as it is without the bells (eq) and whistles (crossfeed) I'd be just as happy!  

 

 
EQ should certainly be easier to do than crossfeed. I've experimented with a variety of crossfeed solutions, both hardware and software and I've yet to find one I truly like. Even trying an HRTF based system didn't yield a workable result.

 

[Allanmarcus]

   
Sorry for taking such a long time to reply!
 
Next up for us is an update to DSD Master that will fix some outstanding bugs and also make conversions quite a bit faster. It will also set the stage for us to play with some new conversion filters.
 
As for BP, a dark mode icon will definitely be in the next update, but we'd also like to update the audio engine to make it a bit more efficient (that's currently beta level) as well as improve the stability of our interaction with iTunes. Unfortunately the reliability of iTunes' scripting interface seems to degrade with each version. We have some ideas for an overhaul that should both reduce CPU use and improve the reliability of communication, that idea is only just out of the proof-of-concept phase. An optional EQ is also on the radar; we're researching the highest fidelity way to accomplish it.
 
I'm curious, what you mean by a headphone mode?

 
Can you implement Audio Unit plugins? If you do that, you get a 32 band equalizer for free. Also, the guy that wrote Canz3D is working on a 64bit version, so that should work too. 
 
-Allan

 

[Krutsch]

   
Can you implement Audio Unit plugins? If you do that, you get a 32 band equalizer for free. Also, the guy that wrote Canz3D is working on a 64bit version, so that should work too. 
 
-Allan

+1 ... rather than building you own EQ, it makes far more sense to support AU plug-ins.