[Helmore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0dhi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Bizkid, go to The β22 Stereo Amplifier and go to "Specifications". Where it says "Maximum output voltage at 1KHz, prior to onset of clipping" gives an idea of how the amp performs into various loads. In this case we can assume that the amp will be able to drive at least 38Vpp into 600ohm since it can do so for 300ohms. Using Power = Voltage^2/Resistance = 38Vpp^2/600 = at least 2.4W into 600 ohms. If you know the measurement was done with a sine wave (it usually is), you can roughly convert Vrms to V by dividing by 0.3535. By the way, the assumption regarding drive voltage only applies to easier loads. You can't say that it can drive 40Vpp into 600 ohms, then assume it can drive 40Vpp into 8 ohms. Also things change when you start dealing with different types of amps, like electrostats, since capacitance and complex impedance comes into play.

I don't think your calculations are correct. In the first place, I don't think there is any use in doing DC power calculations when it comes to headphones and amplifiers and your power calculations are a bit wrong (the amp can't create a 38 V potential difference). Keep in mind, we're talking about a single ended β22.

The specifications page on amb.org states that the β22 can supply 43 Vpp unloaded. Because we are talking about a 600 Ohm load, let's just say it can supply 42 Vpp to make it easier. That mean it has an amplitude of 21 V, which would translate to sqrt(1/2)*21= 14,85 Vrms. From that you can calculate its power output into a T1.
Prms = (14,85)^2 / 600 = 367,5 Wrms
That's still eardrum shattering volumes, but your 2,5 Watts is simply wrong.

P.S. For a balanced β22 you just have to double that power figure.
Oh, and I can also be wrong.

 

[b0dhi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helmore /img/forum/go_quote.gif Prms = (14,85)^2 / 600 = 367,5 Wrms That's still eardrum shattering volumes, but your 2,5 Watts is simply wrong.

Both of us are correct. It's just that mine were in Watts and yours in Watts RMS (also note that I used a more conservative 38V vs your 42V, which accounts for the small difference). The other amp previously mentioned used Watts so I calculated with the same unit for comparison. Although you're right, Wrms is the more useful unit for headphone amps and audio in general. The b22 is a DC coupled amp though and it can handle that power output.

It's all good - now people know how to do it both ways

 

[Parafeed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamaster /img/forum/go_quote.gif Me: The new Beyerdynamic T1 use 6 wire system, means 3 wires on each driver. Are you able to rewire this headphone and keep their 6 wire system? Thanks. Warren Audio: Yes I can. Their 6-wire system is 2 wires to signal, 1 to ground. My cables are normally two, or four, to each signal and ground, however I can surely make a custom cable leaving out 1 of the ground conductors for each channel making it a 6 wire cable. Alright, the only difference is, double helix is a 16 wire cable geometry. You will benefit from it drastically over the 6 wire, and at any rate, 6 wire cannot be "balanced" as it has uneven conductors for signal and return and would cause a phase shift. 6 wire can only work for unbalanced, and if wanting the quality of the double helix, the 16 wire is a large part of that as it uses multi-gauged conductors per signal.

This is the same Warren Audio whose soldering skills were highlighted here?

 

[Seamaster]

Oh crap, I totally forgot that was Warren Audio. I emailed him this post.

 

[DarKu]

seamaster i've seen other "operas" of this man, you should think twice...

In the near future I do plan to buy a T1 too

 

[Helmore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0dhi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Both of us are correct. It's just that mine were in Watts and yours in Watts RMS (also note that I used a more conservative 38V vs your 42V, which accounts for the small difference). The other amp previously mentioned used Watts so I calculated with the same unit for comparison. Although you're right, Wrms is the more useful unit for headphone amps and audio in general. The b22 is a DC coupled amp though and it can handle that power output. It's all good - now people know how to do it both ways

A 2 or 3 board (active ground) β22 will not be able to supply a 38 V potential difference between the signal and ground output that goes to the headphone, but only a 19 V potential difference between signal and ground. You may be right that the β22 is capable of supplying DC power and in that case it would be able to supply 606 mW in a 600 Ohm headphone. You have to keep in mind though, that headphones are not capable of handling DC power and you may thus destroy your headphone if you did this. In other words, the root mean square power for a sinusoidal signal would be 300 mW in the case of a 38 V peak to peak signal. amb.org does state though, that for unloaded output (i.e. headphone with infinite impedance) the β22 will be able to supply 43 Vpp. We're getting a bit off topic though.

P.S. I don't think that paragraph was very coherent

.

 

[ElephantTLK]

I am thinking of buying this headpone. And this is where my headphone journey ends... For a long long time... So do you guys think that its worth to buy this? I have DT880 (2005, 250ohm) and HD595, HD650 (2008)...
But i want to go to level higher. I love DT880 but i need more bass.
So what do you think guys. Should i pull the trigger?

One more question. Is it possible to pay through wire transfer or what are other options? Because i have limit on my credit card (500€) and i cant pay with cc...
Advance payment? Please explain...

 

[argentum]

I used payment in advance variant and payed via bank transfer. Using SEPA transfer the transfer fees are very little compared to usual cross border transfer (assuming you are from EU area). And my T1 will probably end my headphone journey too. I'm only a little bit interested in AKG's new rumored flagship, but this hasn't seen any official light yet. Stax demands the whole system exchange and I'm not ready to do it, despite how good high end staxen might be. My wallet needs rest and repair, it has been hemorrhaged for almost 2 years by this darn hobby.

 

[xnor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElephantTLK /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have DT880 (2005, 250ohm) and HD595, HD650 (2008)... But i want to go to level higher. I love DT880 but i need more bass.

At least from looking at graphs I can tell you that the T1 will not fix that.

 

[Seamaster]

Quote:

Originally Posted by xnor /img/forum/go_quote.gif At least from looking at graphs I can tell you that the T1 will not fix that.

People should stop using graphs to tell story, use your ears.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarKu /img/forum/go_quote.gif seamaster i've seen other "operas" of this man, you should think twice... In the near future I do plan to buy a T1 too

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parafeed /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is the same Warren Audio whose soldering skills were highlighted here?

Warren Audio:

That solder job was done ages ago, and was at cause to a horrid soldering gun and very little sleep.
I now have a digital soldering station and all jobs are completely clean.

Please note: I have nothing to do with Warren Audio. These are the pictures that he sent to me.

 

[ElephantTLK]

Ok i am almost sure that i will get T1. argentum thanks for the info...

 

[b0dhi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helmore /img/forum/go_quote.gif A 2 or 3 board (active ground) β22 will not be able to supply a 38 V potential difference between the signal and ground output that goes to the headphone, but only a 19 V potential difference between signal and ground.

D'oh, yes you're both right. My eyes were seeing Vpp yet my brain was seeing Vpk. Thanks for catching that. Now what else was I working on at the time...

 

[MrGreen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by xnor /img/forum/go_quote.gif At least from looking at graphs I can tell you that the T1 will not fix that.

Did you take into account impact/attack?

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parafeed /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is the same Warren Audio whose soldering skills were highlighted here?

He bought a new soldering station and changed the way he puts the cables together, and this is what my current Warren Audio Double Helix HD800 cable looks like now, before and after hot glue to protect the wires inside the HD800 connector. I can say it is better than with my original cable from last summer):





This next one is the wiring inside the ear cup connector after hot glue was added:

 

[Skylab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by xnor /img/forum/go_quote.gif At least from looking at graphs I can tell you that the T1 will not fix that.

There is no question that the T1 has more bass weight (and better bass quality) than the DT880. I own both of course, so I speak from direct experience.