Beyerdynamic DT 48 vs. Beyerdynamic DT 250

[Sonic Atrocity]

Okay, why are the DT 48s 400 bucks and the DT 250s are like 200 bucks... okay... oh god this is tough hahahaa...

 

[EYEdROP]

For an amp and DAC, Id say skip head-fi stuff and go straight into professional audio stuff. Go to http://www.bhphotovideo.com/ and see what they have under headphone amplifers and "d/a converters" (not dac). 
 
I would love a Grace 902.

 

[kool bubba ice]

If you really feel that strongly, then get the DT48.. Based on your latest post. You will hear a night a day difference in bass impact & extension. Listen to a rock song, then listen to a rap song like it's going down from JOC.. The never knew the DT48 was capable of such deep bass.. Never heard that type of bass from any rock song I played..
 
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You sure you aren't on Beyer's payroll? 

 I'm just kiddin'. Hmm, of course if the DT 48 is flat I will hear the bass and the full extension that exists in the recording. But, if I have the DT 250 then I will have added bass extension that is added by the headphone itself. Something about that just rubs me the wrong way. It seems almost ridiculous that there are headphones that do this. In an ideal world I would want all headphones to be flat and exactly what was recorded and intended to be heard is being reproduced. No tinkering, nothin'. Just straight up sonic fidelity. 

You should. How is B&H return policy?
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Then again, perhaps I will just buy both HAHAHA

 

[kool bubba ice]

The bass difference does vary greater depending on the genre & recording.

 

[kool bubba ice]

Build quality. Construction. Accuracy. Theres no plastic or glue anywhere in the design, which makes them very unique. Everything is nuts & bolts..Even the diaphram & magnetic are seperated into their own metal housing. This is un head of.. Even the most expensive headphones glue them together. The MSRP is actually 449.00 for the DT48e.. The DT48a usually cost more, & is usually a special order item.. As I read, they are not mass produced, & come with their own FR graph chart, since each vary slightly, but have a deviation under 1DB. Some sell the DT48A for 470 or 500.. Above MSRP, which is criminal IMO.. The DT48A tranducers are personally hand selected & matched for optimal balance.. The only other Beyer headphone that gets such treatment are the T1's.. The T1 & DT48 also share the same ring design, & have similiar drivers minus the material being used..
 
I never read a thread about the DT48 having imbalance problems.. I read many about the DT880/990 having such problems. One of my 990 had a balance problem. One side was a few DBs higher then the other. You can search if you doubt me.
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Okay, why are the DT 48s 400 bucks and the DT 250s are like 200 bucks... okay... oh god this is tough hahahaa...

 

[joelpearce]

From what I've experienced, go for the newest iteration of the 25ohm DT48E.  It should give you enough low end, while maintaining a high level of balance.  It's also relatively easy to drive and not too tough to get a hold of.

 

[lejaz]

According to a couple of reviewers the dt250 is very neutral...not emphasized in the low end. You see, it all depends upon who you ask. I know of a very talented AE who swears by the RP21 and they have MORE low end than the dt250. So which has neutral bass...the dt48, the dt250, or the RP21...or the k70X? Depends who you ask.
Of all those four phones, on my set up, the dt48 has the most rolled off bass.
BTW, I feel the dt48 has the most neutral mids of any phones I've heard...more so than the dt250, IMO. With my amp, the ld mkV I am struggling to get decent low bass no matter how loud I play the songs. I haven't tried the current model, which is supposed to have better lows.
YMMV on any of this.
 
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Why would the DT 250 be better for my needs? I want sonic fidelity. It sounds as though the DT 250 has an emphasized low end. That doesn't sound like sonic fidelity to me. One more question: I listen to a lot of Meshuggah. They play with down tuned eight string guitars. Is there any possibility that the DT 48s or 250s could not reproduce such low frequencies?

 

[kool bubba ice]

No doubt they have a better low end.. I just don't know if they will be better enough for you.. That is the 60,000 question.. How is the transformer coming along.. I really hope you find the perfect medium for bass quantity & impact... I know you love the DT48, but the bass really has you on edge a bit.. Frustrating wise.. Too bad you can't have the HP1/ Great bass/Great mid range.. Maybe even better then the DT48 in that regard.. Would be a honor & privledge to hear such a highly regarded headphone.. As always.. Best of luck with the DT48 & more importantly your teeth..
 
The DT48 has the most roll off bass of any hi end headphone I have heard or owned.. DT770/DT880/DT990/Y1/K280/K340/K501/K701/SA5000/650/K240/K280/K1000/HD600/HD595/MDR F1.. But are the 2nd best on the list behind the K1000.
 
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According to a couple of reviewers the dt250 is very neutral...not emphasized in the low end. You see, it all depends upon who you ask. I know of a very talented AE who swears by the RP21 and they have MORE low end than the dt250. So which has neutral bass...the dt48, the dt250, or the RP21...or the k70X? Depends who you ask.
Of all those four phones, on my set up, the dt48 has the most rolled off bass.
BTW, I feel the dt48 has the most neutral mids of any phones I've heard. With my amp, the ld mkV I am struggling to get decent low bass no matter how loud I play the songs. I haven't tried the current model, which is supposed to have better lows.
YMMV on any of this.
 

 

[Sonic Atrocity]

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According to a couple of reviewers the dt250 is very neutral...not emphasized in the low end. You see, it all depends upon who you ask. I know of a very talented AE who swears by the RP21 and they have MORE low end than the dt250. So which has neutral bass...the dt48, the dt250, or the RP21...or the k70X? Depends who you ask.
Of all those four phones, on my set up, the dt48 has the most rolled off bass.
BTW, I feel the dt48 has the most neutral mids of any phones I've heard...more so than the dt250, IMO. With my amp, the ld mkV I am struggling to get decent low bass no matter how loud I play the songs. I haven't tried the current model, which is supposed to have better lows.
YMMV on any of this.
 

Hmm, okay you jut made this more complicated ya jerk!

 Nah, I'm just kidding. Seriously though, the DT 48 has a lot of rolled off bass? Hmm, see, this doesn't necessarily come off as "neutral" to me. To me, a neutral setup is completely flat and nothing is rolled off. After all, as I have stated before, it is not up to the headphone producer to decide what I am hearing. It is up to the artist and studio producer. I don't want ANYTHING rolled off. Does the DT 250 have such roll off?
 

 

[lejaz]

That's the thing...I just wanted to warn the OP that they may have more bass roll off than he's used to hearing....and that there's no real consensus on what is 'neutral'. Think of all the heated arguments on the forum about the k70X bass. The transformer  based impedance adapter was a big disappointment. It made the bass even lighter...but it increased the highs. I think the mids may be improved too, but I haven't done enough testing yet. I'm kind of enjoying them with the adapter because of the better highs. Still, I think I eventually need to get a better amp for them. I'd sure love to hear them with a killer set up!
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No doubt they have a better low end.. I just don't know if they will be better enough for you.. That is the 60,000 question.. How is the transformer coming along.. I really hope you find the perfect medium for bass quantity & impact... I know you love the DT48, but the bass really has you on edge a bit.. Frustrating wise.. Too bad you can't have the HP1/ Great bass/Great mid range.. Maybe even better then the DT48 in that regard.. Would be a honor & privledge to hear such a highly regarded headphone.. As always.. Best of luck with the DT48 & more importantly your teeth..
 
The DT48 has the most roll off bass of any hi end headphone I have heard or owned.. DT770/DT880/DT990/Y1/K280/K340/K501/K701/SA5000/650/K240/K280/K1000/HD600/HD595/MDR F1.. But are the 2nd best on the list behind the K1000.
 

 

 

[kool bubba ice]

Bass roll off by most accounts is between 50-60. I know of 4 DT48 members who will attest to this..Joel/Eyedrop/Shamu/etc.. which isn't bad for any headphone. Not the greatest either..Lejaz thinks it rolls off between 70-90 which is very un normal.. The DT48 are still labeled as Neutral/accurate/flat.. They are used for testing, ENT DR's.. Hearing test, lab work, ENG field work, etc.. So regardless of the bass roll off for music... They are precise instruments for some intricate testing which demand accuracy & neutrality..
 
& theres also also a quote by the Motown engineer who claimed the DT48e sound exactly like the sound he heard in the recording studio minus the spatial difference.. Every instrument sounded the same as in real life to this engineer.. He would compare the two.. wearing the headphones then taking them off.. & he was convinced the headphones were 100% accurate to the live sound he heard in the studio.. I know opinions vary...
 
All headphones have some type of emphasis or roll off.. There's no perfect headphone.
 
The HP2 would probably come the closest to what you are looking for but cost a lot more..
 
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Hmm, okay you jut made this more complicated ya jerk!

 Nah, I'm just kidding. Seriously though, the DT 48 has a lot of rolled off bass? Hmm, see, this doesn't necessarily come off as "neutral" to me. To me, a neutral setup is completely flat and nothing is rolled off. After all, as I have stated before, it is not up to the headphone producer to decide what I am hearing. It is up to the artist and studio producer. I don't want ANYTHING rolled off. Does the DT 250 have such roll off?
 

 

[lejaz]

After listening at full volume with the original impedance adapter, I'm finding it starts to roll off around 70 or so. .... though I'm no expert in judging the exact frequencies of these kind of things. Mid bass seems to be at the level of the 240DF which sounds pretty neutral with acoustic jazz.  This is consistent with what Shamu found with the LD mkIII...but switching to the lavry, the bass was a lot better. So if the OP is thinking of buying them he should try to get an amp that synergizes with them.

 

[Sonic Atrocity]

Oh my... I'd get the HP-2 but they are open cans. I need closed cans. Hmm, all I want is a flat frequency response, fantastic sound staging, extremely low sibilance (or even non-existent), no roll off, and really good isolation. Anyone have any other suggestions?

 
Yes... I am difficult to please hahaha. I appreciate you guys helping me out by the way. I want everyone to know that I value my place here! I LOVE this forum.

 

[kool bubba ice]

70 still seems a bit high.. I'm no engineer though.. I just know the norm from what I gathered is between 50-60..
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After listening at full volume with the original impedance adapter, I'm finding it starts to roll off around 70 or so. .... though I'm no expert in judging the exact frequencies of these kind of things. Mid bass seems to be at the level of the 240DF which sounds pretty neutral with acoustic jazz.  This is consistent with what Shamu found with the LD mkIII...but switching to the lavry, the bass was a lot better. So if the OP is thinking of buying them he should try to get an amp that synergizes with them.

 

[lejaz]

 
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People considering the DT48 should ask themselves this: 
 
1. Would you rather have a cable going straight to your brain feeding you the recording of the live event?
 
2. Or would you rather be in a perfect concert hall with the band playing in front of you? 
 
 
 
 

That's a pretty good analogy....a direct mic feed to your brain...to borrow someone else's metaphor for the dt250....applies even more so to the dt48: They're like having the mixing desk wired directly to your brain.