[SomeGuyDude]

those two are great dacs for the price, really great. Soncoz a bit on the shouty side, like khadas 1. Perfect dac's, don't get me wrong, but if you can get something like a topping e30 with AKM dac chip, it sounds smoother overall, still giving perfect detail. Still shouty, but a tiny bit less than ess dac's.

So hard to buy headphones without been able to test them. I want to buy something but can't decide between 770, 1770, sundara, lcd 2c, lcd X... I want something bassy, and apparently it has to be planar or closed cans with dynamic driver. 2nd option much cheaper...

If you want bassy get the hell away from anything by HiFiMan.

 

[aleniola76]

something like a topping e30 with AKM dac chip, it sounds smoother overall, still giving perfect detail

I think the DT1770 pro will need something on the screaming side to bring the mids upfront, otherwise you could find them a bit V-shaped. The E30 is a great DAC from a Q/P perspective, but may not be the ideal match for 1770.
If you want something with very good bass, 1770 would be a good choice imho, and also Shure SRH 1540.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

those two are great dacs for the price, really great. Soncoz a bit on the shouty side, like khadas 1. Perfect dac's, don't get me wrong, but if you can get something like a topping e30 with AKM dac chip, it sounds smoother overall, still giving perfect detail. Still shouty, but a tiny bit less than ess dac's.

So hard to buy headphones without been able to test them. I want to buy something but can't decide between 770, 1770, sundara, lcd 2c, lcd X... I want something bassy, and apparently it has to be planar or closed cans with dynamic driver. 2nd option much cheaper...

The DT1770 is a great all around pair if you want specifically closed. The treble is not harsh and for me there is no sense of a V signature. Vocals and mids are fine. Bass can get a little boomy due to the closed config. The headstrap is not comfortable for me. I also don't like the Fostex head strap.

If you want something lively yet smooth and warmish with slammin' bass and you can afford the LCD-2C, just get it. They are a wonderful set of headphones that have no obvious faults. And they are easier to drive than the DT1770s. My Audeze are surprisingly among the most comfortable cans I have despite the weight.

 

[Lolito]

The DT1770 is a great all around pair if you want specifically closed. The treble is not harsh and for me there is no sense of a V signature. Vocals and mids are fine. Bass can get a little boomy due to the closed config. The headstrap is not comfortable for me. I also don't like the Fostex head strap.

If you want something lively yet smooth and warmish with slammin' bass and you can afford the LCD-2C, just get it. They are a wonderful set of headphones that have no obvious faults. And they are easier to drive than the DT1770s. My Audeze are surprisingly among the most comfortable cans I have despite the weight.

Thanks for the help. Main problem is not being able to test stuff. Even some online shops now they do not accept returns of headphones, due to pandemic reasons... If I could test these models, it would be easier to make a decision. But LCD2C lot of people say it lacks details, better 2F or X, then that is almost 1000€ for a headphones. I mean, it better be like taking a shot of heroine, let me tell you, at that price. Jesus christ. 1000€ cans, and the cheap ones, lcd 3 or 4... buffff...

DT1770 Y can bet them new b-stock at about 333€... 333€ for a very well finished cans, german made, reliable brand, good warranty, great durability... cheaper cables, cheaper spare pads. Then again, DT770 at just 100€+VAT, some say sound even better.

 

[Lolito]

I own an HD25, those sound great, I would like something like that, just with more detail overall, and over ear so they are more comfortable. No tasking for a lot I guess.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

Thanks for the help. Main problem is not being able to test stuff. Even some online shops now they do not accept returns of headphones, due to pandemic reasons... If I could test these models, it would be easier to make a decision. But LCD2C lot of people say it lacks details, better 2F or X, then that is almost 1000€ for a headphones. I mean, it better be like taking a shot of heroine, let me tell you, at that price. Jesus christ. 1000€ cans, and the cheap ones, lcd 3 or 4... buffff...

DT1770 Y can bet them new b-stock at about 333€... 333€ for a very well finished cans, german made, reliable brand, good warranty, great durability... cheaper cables, cheaper spare pads. Then again, DT770 at just 100€+VAT, some say sound even better.

Well sure the higher Audeze models are better but in my opinion the 2C is kinda the HD 600 of planars. It hits the sweet spot, it sounds great for most kinds of music. It has a good build, it's comfortable, it uses standard connectors (mini XLR). For the price I don't think anybody could go wrong.

Everything is relative. It doesn't lack detail. It lacks detail compared to 3F which costs 4X the price.

One thing I forgot to mention about the DT1770s, the channel separation is pretty extreme. It might because they are closed and seal very well. But it's distracting for me. For most music I need crossfeed.

We're in Europe, it should be easy to buy Beyer. Beyer doesn't even sell to us, we're in the next country. I had to buy mine from Jan Meier the amp guy (@Jan Meier ) who is a great guy to deal with but Beyer shouldn't make this hard. I don't know about the warranty or Beyer service. I do know Audeze service is not very good outside America and it's iffy inside America. But I doubt you'll need it, the 2C seems stone reliable.

Bottom line, the LCD-2C is gonna be more enjoyable, more spacious, better overall sound quality than the DT1770s. Both are bricks, the DT1770 feel more like it since the headband is uncomfortable. The wide headstrap on the 2C spreads the weight real well and you don't feel it. I also like that I feel like I'm down in the 2C, it adds to the immersive quality of the sound. Like I said, a magic pair of cans. Ticks all the boxes, easily could be an all-day, everyday listen. The only cans I have in the category are the HD 600, 2C, and Fostex TH900. But the Fostex is the least comfortable of the three.

I own an HD25, those sound great, I would like something like that, just with more detail overall, and over ear so they are more comfortable. No tasking for a lot I guess.

You know I'm with you on the HD 25s. They are more resolving than most people realize. But you're gonna get a dumb smile on your face for hours when you put on a pair of 2C...

 

[SomeGuyDude]

Thanks for the help. Main problem is not being able to test stuff. Even some online shops now they do not accept returns of headphones, due to pandemic reasons... If I could test these models, it would be easier to make a decision. But LCD2C lot of people say it lacks details, better 2F or X, then that is almost 1000€ for a headphones. I mean, it better be like taking a shot of heroine, let me tell you, at that price. Jesus christ. 1000€ cans, and the cheap ones, lcd 3 or 4... buffff...

DT1770 Y can bet them new b-stock at about 333€... 333€ for a very well finished cans, german made, reliable brand, good warranty, great durability... cheaper cables, cheaper spare pads. Then again, DT770 at just 100€+VAT, some say sound even better.

When people are talking about headphones at this bracket "lacking details" or this or that, they're splitting hairs that had been previously split already. I've owned a ton of Audeze (not the LCD-2 closed, but the regular LCD-2, X, and 3) and the idea of them lacking details is hilarious to me. They aren't detail monsters like an HD800 or HE1000. They have body to them. When a headphone has potent bass, even if that bass is perfectly executed with no bloom or distortion, the mids and highs will be less pronounced by comparison so it becomes less "detailed." That's just the nature of sound.

Way too many people think that "detailed" means the headphone is this perfectly transparent product that's so damn good that you can hear every little teeny thing in the recording, but usually it just means it has a shitload of treble because those details people rave about always exist at that treble region like the scrape of fingers against guitar strings or the click of keys on a saxophone. If you listen to a big full-room speaker system and unplug the subwoofer by god you'll be hearing all kinds of things you wouldn't normally hear, but that doesn't mean the system as a whole sounds better.

If springing all the way for the LCD-2 is daunting, pull back. If the cost is prohibitive, you'll have a hard time enjoying them because you'll be sitting there worrying that they aren't good enough to justify spending so much on them. The law of diminishing returns is a thing. No one needs to drop huge money on headphones, you're not missing out on a whole new world of sound. Just speaking personally, once you start creeping towards $1000 I felt like the differences are about personal preference more than anything else.

 

[jonathan c]

When people are talking about headphones at this bracket "lacking details" or this or that, they're splitting hairs that had been previously split already. I've owned a ton of Audeze (not the LCD-2 closed, but the regular LCD-2, X, and 3) and the idea of them lacking details is hilarious to me. They aren't detail monsters like an HD800 or HE1000. They have body to them. When a headphone has potent bass, even if that bass is perfectly executed with no bloom or distortion, the mids and highs will be less pronounced by comparison so it becomes less "detailed." That's just the nature of sound.

Way too many people think that "detailed" means the headphone is this perfectly transparent product that's so damn good that you can hear every little teeny thing in the recording, but usually it just means it has a shitload of treble because those details people rave about always exist at that treble region like the scrape of fingers against guitar strings or the click of keys on a saxophone. If you listen to a big full-room speaker system and unplug the subwoofer by god you'll be hearing all kinds of things you wouldn't normally hear, but that doesn't mean the system as a whole sounds better.

If springing all the way for the LCD-2 is daunting, pull back. If the cost is prohibitive, you'll have a hard time enjoying them because you'll be sitting there worrying that they aren't good enough to justify spending so much on them. The law of diminishing returns is a thing. No one needs to drop huge money on headphones, you're not missing out on a whole new world of sound. Just speaking personally, once you start creeping towards $1000 I felt like the differences are about personal preference more than anything else.

Good points. When attending a concert outdoors, in a hall, in a club, does anyone rave about “detail” (and all the other items: soundstage etc)? I think that personal preference can govern at any price point.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

Good points. When attending a concert outdoors, in a hall, in a club, does anyone rave about “detail” (and all the other items: soundstage etc)? I think that personal preference can govern at any price point.

MAN that's a good point. I cannot imagine anyone sitting in an actual symphony hall leaning over and going "the sound is so detailed in here, I can hear the spit on the clarinet player's lips!!"

 

[jonathan c]

MAN that's a good point. I cannot imagine anyone sitting in an actual symphony hall leaning over and going "the sound is so detailed in here, I can hear the spit on the clarinet player's lips!!"

Maybe the orchestra member next to the clarinetist......?

 

[Cevisi]

MAN that's a good point. I cannot imagine anyone sitting in an actual symphony hall leaning over and going "the sound is so detailed in here, I can hear the spit on the clarinet player's lips!!"

If I could not hear that i would leave the building

 

[jonathan c]

If I could not hear that i would leave the building

Or yell out: “play harder!”....

 

[Lolito]

Thanks for the long reply's, I appreciate it, spatially the long ones, makes more understandable all this, that I could solve doing a test, or a demo, but I started the hobby 2 months before corona, and before that my life was less boring that I am willing to spend now 1000€ in a headphones instead of holydays or travelling or visiting the family or... hehe... anyhow.

Everything is relative of course. Of course, and I know the difference between detailed driver and the highs not rolling off and appearing as detailed. I do know that, non audiophile but sound and music lover for few decades now almost...

The thing is this, i have sennheiser hd6XX and I have sennheiser hd25. HD 6XX I call it detailed, HD25 I call them not detailed, at all, but hey, for 99€ and for the ipod, more than good enough, for outdoors, for putting them on abag and not breaking, marvelous, sound signature, even more marvelous, detail; amazing for 99€. Now, if I spend 900€ and I get the same detail level than the HD25, I may return them the very same day, and order LCD X. So because everything is relative, and since I haven't tested them, detail needs to be kind of rated, as well as any other of the sound specs. You do not get out of my pocket 1000$ so easily. I mean, I´m deeply stupid, good, ok, but so so stupid, no my dear, no. Now, when you say, when I put those lcd2 in my head I am going to crap on my pants pretty much, that's what some people said, that is what I need confirmation about. Lot of people say that hd6XX or sundara have better detail retrieval than 2C, although maybe it is actually the sound signature of those with the highs rolled of. HD6XX has highs rolled off a bit to, but they sund detailed, they can retrieve the detail, with them it's easier to notice, sound quality, sampling rate. With non detailed headphones, sounds the same a high quality mp3 against a red book or a DSD/real high res stuff.

Anyhow, 610€ shipped gets me an LCD-2C new "b-stock", returned and vat free. 990€ shipped gets me an LCD-X. Hard to decide. The third candidate DT770 80 Ohm, the other was the Neumann 500€ closed cans, I already removed that candidate.

Amp will be the SIngxer SA1.


About the DT1770, after so much people telling me that is pure crap, without wanting to tell me that they are crap, I give up on them.

 

[Lolito]

Good points. When attending a concert outdoors, in a hall, in a club, does anyone rave about “detail” (and all the other items: soundstage etc)? I think that personal preference can govern at any price point.

When I go to a concert, we always meet same place; in front of the mixing desk. Easy to find, there is always one, less crowded than the front, can't get you lost, and sounds the very best. That is when you go to concerts with people who know music. When I go with dumb people, drugs techno music events, or pretentious hipster, then the place doesnt matter that much indeed. If you go with retards, it doesnt matter at all ever, that is true.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

Thanks for the long reply's, I appreciate it, spatially the long ones, makes more understandable all this, that I could solve doing a test, or a demo, but I started the hobby 2 months before corona, and before that my life was less boring that I am willing to spend now 1000€ in a headphones instead of holydays or travelling or visiting the family or... hehe... anyhow.

Everything is relative of course. Of course, and I know the difference between detailed driver and the highs not rolling off and appearing as detailed. I do know that, non audiophile but sound and music lover for few decades now almost...

The thing is this, i have sennheiser hd6XX and I have sennheiser hd25. HD 6XX I call it detailed, HD25 I call them not detailed, at all, but hey, for 99€ and for the ipod, more than good enough, for outdoors, for putting them on abag and not breaking, marvelous, sound signature, even more marvelous, detail; amazing for 99€. Now, if I spend 900€ and I get the same detail level than the HD25, I may return them the very same day, and order LCD X. So because everything is relative, and since I haven't tested them, detail needs to be kind of rated, as well as any other of the sound specs. You do not get out of my pocket 1000$ so easily. I mean, I´m deeply stupid, good, ok, but so so stupid, no my dear, no. Now, when you say, when I put those lcd2 in my head I am going to crap on my pants pretty much, that's what some people said, that is what I need confirmation about. Lot of people say that hd6XX or sundara have better detail retrieval than 2C, although maybe it is actually the sound signature of those with the highs rolled of. HD6XX has highs rolled off a bit to, but they sund detailed, they can retrieve the detail, with them it's easier to notice, sound quality, sampling rate. With non detailed headphones, sounds the same a high quality mp3 against a red book or a DSD/real high res stuff.

Anyhow, 610€ shipped gets me an LCD-2C new "b-stock", returned and vat free. 990€ shipped gets me an LCD-X. Hard to decide. The third candidate DT770 80 Ohm, the other was the Neumann 500€ closed cans, I already removed that candidate.

Amp will be the SIngxer SA1.


About the DT1770, after so much people telling me that is pure crap, without wanting to tell me that they are crap, I give up on them.

On the Audezes, ask yourself if you want treble energy or smoothness. If you want something more laid back, get the LCD-2C. If you want extra top end, get the X.

The Sundara doesn't have "better detail retrieval," it's just a lot brighter. Some people like that, personally I found them unengaging and impossible to enjoy.