Best Soundstage? Headphones for Gaming :)
Sep 19, 2008 at 6:39 AM Post #106 of 179
Yes, but that depend of the headphone that you use. it sounds more natural when it is enabled in the majority of the cases.
With my dac/dsp i have not necessity to enable it (it already have the multichannel support for his own). The CMSS3D is ideal/useful when you watch TV/listen music in mono/stereo. It helps with the image/soundstage/spaciousness of the sound and give to the mids more presence in the soundstage. However it is something useless with binaural recordings (it spoils the soundstage) and some songs/x.1 movies. Clearly, it depend of the amount that you use (fortunately it can disabled; and you can graduate it), but in the minimun it is nice, and works excellently/in balance with almost all the material, including games.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nocturnal310 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Dude i ve been through that.

CMSS 3D is good for positioning but the it makes my headphones sound like Metal Tins..

the screws up with headphone acoustics also.

if all u want is enemy position then yes CMSS-3D works but the Sound itself comes out horrible.


 
Sep 19, 2008 at 7:10 AM Post #108 of 179
Quote:

Originally Posted by fraseyboy /img/forum/go_quote.gif
AD700.

Disregard all other suggestions.


Please tell me you're not still going with the Audigy 2?

I have an old Audigy 2 and I won't let it anywhere near my new cans. Get a prelude or something, seriously.
 
Sep 19, 2008 at 7:34 AM Post #109 of 179
If you all will listen to My new creation (hehehe), my hybrid headphone (it get the best of the Denons and the best of the DT990 and improve beyond...., but without his weaknesses [bright highs, bright mids (in denons) sibilance in both (no a lot in reality (but a little less in denons)), not ultra high separation (excellent in both but not perfect))], it blown away all your subgestions (even my beloved stock DT990 and stock Denons) for a larger margin.
Obvously it is a mod, but a not very hard to do....
 
Sep 19, 2008 at 7:51 AM Post #110 of 179
Quote:

Originally Posted by Trepid!ty /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Please tell me you're not still going with the Audigy 2?

I have an old Audigy 2 and I won't let it anywhere near my new cans. Get a prelude or something, seriously.


Hell no!

iRiver H120 -> Beresford TC-7510 -> Little Dot MK II -> Headphones
biggrin.gif
 
Sep 19, 2008 at 4:38 PM Post #111 of 179
Quote:

Originally Posted by wilashort /img/forum/go_quote.gif
...I experiment it everyday, and you said me that i am wrong?. Yes, all the headphones have two channels, but the technology use/emulate realistically the 3D sound if the source have x.1 sound in a game or movie (it decode any x.1 format...) .... And CMSS 3D is the more accurate implementation, period.
For answering your question again, i already had tested my onboard audio card (that is of a reasonable good quality) + my amp with crossfeed and i can't listen the center and rear channels in a movie for example (yes i can listen sounds in center, but it is mixed and not dedicated for voices as it is/should....).
At purpose, have you listen the CMSS 3D demo in the creative labs's site?, i want that you check it; for that you can have a true impression of how this technology really works.
Ah, with my dac/dsp i don't need crossfeed [(it have an integrated one...) it only expand the sounstage and attenuate a little (clean) the harsness in the highs when i use it with my dac/dsp]. But obviously without it [(the dac/dsp) and you have reason with that you have said], i need of the crossfeed with some music records, because of the extreme separation to the left, right of sounds, but that is for all (or almost all) of the standalone dacs without crossfeed integrated.


I have used CMSS, not on the creative website, but in actual games with a Creative sound card, and a crossfeeded stereo feed and I prefer the crossfeed. It sounds a lot better (more natural) and still provides positioning info.

Crossfeeding, while mainly used for music, is useful in gaming as well. Crossfeeding has been developed to deal with the inherent flaw in headphones, extreme stereo separation. It is supposed to give the listener a more natural sounding experience. The result is that the sound field expands outward and it becomes more enveloping. It better approximates binaural listening, which is more natural.

At any rate...It works great for me and I think a lot of other people could back me up on crossfeeding and gaming if they gave it a try.

Now...If you are sending a 5.1 signal to a device that has Dolby headphone that might be a better way to handle it. I don't know, I have never used it. I will be getting an amp with Dolby headphone and I have high hopes for it.

But till then I think:

Analog stereo line out --> Stereo amp w/ crossfeed --> Good headphones

is superior to

CMSS-3D on a soundcard --> Headphone out --> Good headphones

Just my opinion using both in PC shooters.
 
Sep 19, 2008 at 5:59 PM Post #113 of 179
Don't be stubborn man, believe that i said you; Try the Demo....
The CMSS 3D is much better than the old CMSS (for something it is new...) and better than dolby headphone* (i had tested it in the past, and i to be unimpressed. *There is some serious profesional reviews that prove it).
Yes, i known that is your opinion, but don't be stubborn...
Cheers.
Quote:

Originally Posted by jmb /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I have used CMSS, not on the creative website, but in actual games with a Creative sound card, and a crossfeeded stereo feed and I prefer the crossfeed. It sounds a lot better (more natural) and still provides positioning info.

Crossfeeding, while mainly used for music, is useful in gaming as well. Crossfeeding has been developed to deal with the inherent flaw in headphones, extreme stereo separation. It is supposed to give the listener a more natural sounding experience. The result is that the sound field expands outward and it becomes more enveloping. It better approximates binaural listening, which is more natural.

At any rate...It works great for me and I think a lot of other people could back me up on crossfeeding and gaming if they gave it a try.

Now...If you are sending a 5.1 signal to a device that has Dolby headphone that might be a better way to handle it. I don't know, I have never used it. I will be getting an amp with Dolby headphone and I have high hopes for it.

But till then I think:

Analog stereo line out --> Stereo amp w/ crossfeed --> Good headphones

is superior to

CMSS-3D on a soundcard --> Headphone out --> Good headphones

Just my opinion using both in PC shooters.


 
Sep 19, 2008 at 6:39 PM Post #114 of 179
Quote:

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice /img/forum/go_quote.gif
There are better for gaming.. & much better for headphones.


You can tell us which are better.

AD900?
 
Sep 19, 2008 at 6:50 PM Post #115 of 179
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nocturnal310 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
You can tell us which are better.

AD900?


Yes, & a few more off the top of my head.. 601/DT880 & any electrostat.. Will get my DT48a soon. I will check them out.
 
Sep 19, 2008 at 6:54 PM Post #116 of 179
Hello,

First off crossfeeding mixes the channels to overcome that seperation as you stated, but this is a horrible thing for gamers. In games you want maximum seperation, thats why you dont use speakers. Sound quality is also almost disregarded because all a gamer is focused on is what is happening, where are the people, and did i hit/kill them.

For instance, dust2, if your a T moving up long and you killed the guy playing long then when you hear the people to the left you need to be able to hear the difference between cat and ct spawn. with crossfeed on the left channel is mixed into the right channel and you lose the ability to discern the finer points of sound such as catwalk or ct spawn. Countless other examples would be spamming 1 on mill, spamming rafters on nuke, credit card on nuke, cat on russka, etc. etc.

Cheers
Dave
 
Sep 19, 2008 at 7:12 PM Post #117 of 179
Quote:

Originally Posted by myinitialsaredac /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Hello,

First off crossfeeding mixes the channels to overcome that seperation as you stated, but this is a horrible thing for gamers. In games you want maximum seperation, thats why you dont use speakers. Sound quality is also almost disregarded because all a gamer is focused on is what is happening, where are the people, and did i hit/kill them.

For instance, dust2, if your a T moving up long and you killed the guy playing long then when you hear the people to the left you need to be able to hear the difference between cat and ct spawn. with crossfeed on the left channel is mixed into the right channel and you lose the ability to discern the finer points of sound such as catwalk or ct spawn. Countless other examples would be spamming 1 on mill, spamming rafters on nuke, credit card on nuke, cat on russka, etc. etc.

Cheers
Dave




I can agree with u ... the Crossfeed tends to make the sound come out natural but it doesnt help for Gaming.

what u need to be able to do is tell where the enemy is approaching from on what part of the LEft channel.

if its left ..is it Front left or Back left.

With Crossfeed this doesnt happen.

Btw which Crossfeed plugin did u try?
 
Sep 19, 2008 at 8:44 PM Post #119 of 179
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nocturnal310 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
You can tell us which are better.

AD900?


The AD900 is my choice for gaming. The sound stage is almost too big as it can make things seem further away than they are. It took a while for me to learn the sound stage and gage the distances but once I did I liked them very much. The closed A700 are a good choice as well. The sound stage is very large but more accurate when it comes to distance. I'd probably still use the A700 if they didn't get so hot.

I've also tried the MS-1 which has some crazy mixed up sound stage with holes and the HD650 which is too congested and misplaced. Neither are good for gaming IMO.

I'm not talking about music, just games.
 
Sep 19, 2008 at 9:29 PM Post #120 of 179
Does anyone have any opinion about the JVC DX1000 for gaming? I really want closed headphones, and these are praised alot for their soundstage; I wish I could find a pair of these to test them out. xD
I know they're pricey; but I'm in the head-fi forums; you know? ;D
 
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