[Anaxilus]

Quote:

Round of applause, dude.
 
Anybody want to argue back against that?

Nope not at all.  Pretty valid.  I'll say this though, his argument isn't really with Monster, it's with the consumer.  You can't fault a company for providing a service or product that people want.  As sad as that is.

 

[Jibbie]

Very true.  People should take the time to research such an investment in headphones (or anything for that matter).  
Quote:

Nope not at all.  Pretty valid.  I'll say this though, his argument isn't really with Monster, it's with the consumer.  You can't fault a company for providing a service or product that people want.  As sad as that is.

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

 
And you know those are the Studios how?  The FRC on Headroom doesn't look like the Studios.  You realize there are four different Beats headphone not counting IEMs.  Btw, only one of them is referenced as 'Professional' and I'm pretty sure 99.999% of this site hasn't heard them.  I'm pretty sure many who have commented on what they thought they heard wasn't the phone they thought they heard.   
 
http://beatsbydre.com/products/showproducts.aspx?startBanner=1

Because it has the same curves as on this page.

 

[ktsai1283]

How are the Beats are noise-canceling?  They make nothing but noise! 

 
In all seriousness, in the audiophile world, can anyone actually say with a straight face that 90% (heck, 99%) of headphones actually cost as much as they should sound?  Especially given how subjective audio quality & enjoyability are?
 
To some, the Beats are the best pair of headphones they've ever heard and are happy spending $300 on it.  If they don't know any better, why question their judgment?  They ARE the best!  For THEM!
 
To some, Ultrasone's Edition 8 sounds like garbage, whereas to others, they are the best $1500 spent.
 
Seriously, it's time for everyone to accept that many people are biased when it comes to a hobby like this--or any other hobby, for that matter, and that the wide range of tastes in terms of music reproduction is the reason why we have such an amazing array of choices out there right now--it allows people to buy multiple headphones to suit their moods, time of day, etc. and allows others to try out different headphones to find the style THEY like the most--there is no objective definition of "good" or "best".
 
To me, it's ridiculous that the Beats get so much hate for being overpriced while Grado gets a pass on their PS1000.  But again, that's my opinion, and for some it is well worth the $1700 spent.

 

[Dev Avidon]

Quote:

Nope not at all.  Pretty valid.  I'll say this though, his argument isn't really with Monster, it's with the consumer.  You can't fault a company for providing a service or product that people want.  As sad as that is.

 
It's actually with both, but more with Monster than the consumer.  It does sadden me that marketing campaigns and tie ins such as this are as successful as they are, and that more people don't take the time to research before they buy, but demand is not a finite, independent phenomenon.  Market demand, especially in the market for non-essential, luxury goods (for most people headphones are non-essential anyhow

) must be crafted and cultivated.  I would posit that if every consumer had a reasonable understanding of the relative cost-to-produce, merits, competition and alternatives to the likes of something like Beats or Bud, there'd be a whole lot less volume getting sold for both.  Insofar as that, I not only fault, but am morally outraged by a company that has largely premised its business model on reinforcing the ignorance of its consumers.  It's one thing to offer an ultra-luxury good that few are going to deem worth the ask, but that is of undeniably superior quality, or to offer a lower cost, high value added product that may not live up to the standards of its more expensive brethren but nevertheless represents a respectable level of quality at a given price point.  I have no problem with companies trying to make an honest profit.  What bothers me is when companies like Monsanto hire 80 full time staff members to spy on independent farmers who still refuse to use their genetically patented soybeans, and sue them if there's so much as a bean of cross-pollination (or for that matter even if there isn't, not like the small farmers can afford millions of dollars to fight frivolous lawsuits...), or when companies like Bose or Monster offer middling quality level products at exorbitant prices, market the hell out of them making ridiculous claims that their real world performance can't back, pay "neutral" publications to hype them up and then threaten to sue anyone who says anything negative about them (fortunately truth is a full defense to libel

).  Just ask Kurt Denke, the owner of Blue Jeans Cable.  Monster tried to sue him 2008 because he was making a better product for less, figuring they'd send him a big dog cease and desist letter and that he wouldn't know what to do.  Alas, he was a litigator for 19 years, but that's another story.  Anyhow, for me, that kind of behavior is no different from securities fraud or short-selling people's mortgages.  It's little removed from theft as far as I'm concerned.
 
I once had dinner with a congressman who shall remain nameless who explained to me, in all sincerity, that corporate lobbyists in congress were a necessity because they tend to represent the primary source of factual information on any given topic for lawmakers, and that said politicians wouldn't have time to educate themselves at all on anything if it weren't for them.  He explained that, oftentimes, the only source of information whatsoever he might have on a given piece of legislation was given to him by a lobbyist.  And he considered this to be "better than nothing."  This kind of cronyism ends up creating a self-fulfilling prophecy, as it continues to aggregate wealth in a smaller number of more and more well-connected hands.  So, given that we Americans at least (and honestly we're one of the less corrupt countries in this regard) find ourselves with politicians who think the internet is made of tubes running IT subcommittees (and subsequently producing such wonderfully convoluted, confused pieces of legislation as the Digital Millennium Copyright Act), in my mind, we need to vote with our dollars.  When consumers educate themselves, they swing the pendulum of demand generation back into their own hands.  The more people that refuse to buy what they're told to buy, that support the producers that do things the right way, the more viable an ethical, responsible business model becomes.  If knowledge is power, apathy will enslave you.

 

[Dev Avidon]

Quote:

How are the Beats are noise-canceling?  They make nothing but noise! 

 
In all seriousness, in the audiophile world, can anyone actually say with a straight face that 90% (heck, 99%) of headphones actually cost as much as they should sound?  Especially given how subjective audio quality & enjoyability are?
 
To some, the Beats are the best pair of headphones they've ever heard and are happy spending $300 on it.  If they don't know any better, why question their judgment?  They ARE the best!  For THEM!
 
To some, Ultrasone's Edition 8 sounds like garbage, whereas to others, they are the best $1500 spent.
 
Seriously, it's time for everyone to accept that many people are biased when it comes to a hobby like this--or any other hobby, for that matter, and that the wide range of tastes in terms of music reproduction is the reason why we have such an amazing array of choices out there right now--it allows people to buy multiple headphones to suit their moods, time of day, etc. and allows others to try out different headphones to find the style THEY like the most--there is no objective definition of "good" or "best".
 
To me, it's ridiculous that the Beats get so much hate for being overpriced while Grado gets a pass on their PS1000.  But again, that's my opinion, and for some it is well worth the $1700 spent.

I think the issue is that most Beats consumers have absolutely no point of reference, and buy Beats because an advertising campaign told them to.  I personally am not a particular fan of the Grado aesthetic, on average, but I respect that the people who do favor them have put the time, interest and education into establishing that this is the sound for them.  I'd wager that 9/10 people who buy Beats have never heard another comparably priced headphone (or even a headphone that costs half of what the Beats cost) in their entire life.  Grado is not out suing people who malign their "house" sound. 

 

[lie495fc]

will beats studio sound better if by pass noise canceling function.

 

[stevenswall]

^According to Monster, their Beats PRO model is better sounding than the Studio model because it does not have noise cancellation, or a powered amp inside. It would seem then that bypassing the noise canceling circuitry would improve the sound, but again, according to Monster...
 
Since Monster is mentioned, I'd like to point out a few discrepancies between the real world, and what Monster says:
 
Flat cable on headphones was first done by Sony I believe, before Monster made headphones, and the swivel feature was on the Sennheiser HD 203 came first... Monster did not invent this with the PRO model. Also with the PRO model, they are taking away features and calling it an improvement... Sounds like Apple with their shuffle... buttons... no buttons... buttons, Hey, new feature!

 

[matthewh133]

By better sounding they of course mean more bass right?

 

[stevenswall]

That's typically the only frequency range they mention, so I would assume so. Once you listen to Noel Lee video propaganda though, you get the idea that his headphones are perfect with everything, bass, mids, treble... just not music in my opinion.

 

[wind016]

My experience is not entirely that bad. Portapros are completely different headphones with no similarities. Closed headphones with greater bass emphasis should have smaller soundstage than open.
 
Have you tried using IEMs on long trips? Seriously, especially 10+ hour flights. I'd rather not have speakers in my ears for that long.
However, you are correct with all your other points, but sometimes NC is just a better option than tight isolation due to comfort.
 
I am actually considering Bose Noise canceling headphones seeing how Denon and Audio Technica noise canceling does not seem to compare. I travel alot and listen to music alot. Comfort is a must.
 
I also find many arguments are against Monster's business "tactics." Well, none of you have to worry because you are not their target market. Real audiophiles would check out any of the headphone forums. VERY easy to find if I must say. Head-fi and other sites are very popular
 
Quote:

I, alas, have a ton of experience dealing with incredulous neophytes for whom Beats are their only experience with better phones than iBuds, (the irony of the allusion in the aforementioned name to said phone's brewing equivalent is not lost on me), each of which insist that I can't possibly have heard these Monstrosities, and that I'm clearly being little more than an arrogant, elitist, reclusive audiophile with little better to do with my life than to work 80 hour weeks and eat ramen 3 meals a day just to save up for a slightly better piece of gear that I will soon be looking to upgrade anyways (all quite possibly true, but the provenance of a source of information doesn't overdetermine its validity

).  As such, I've had to pop on a pair and listen at least five or six times now.  Usually in these situations all I've got on me are my TRIPS, and since those are most certainly not going in anyone's ears other than mine (no seriously...), I can't exactly show them the light.  But the experience is the same every time, no matter how I try them (everything from straight out of a Sansa Clip+, to out of an HM-801, to out of a Duet fed Scherzo Andante): muddy, aggressive, extremely poor detail recovery, cramped soundstage...the list pretty much goes on.  They're basically a nightmare.  I honestly prefer my old Portapros...  Oh, and as a quick aside for the "sometimes you need NC" crowd: buy some decent IEMs.  You'll get better isolation than with pretty much any close shell OR active NC headphone anyways.  Hell, at 350 dollars buy some CUSTOM IEMs...you'll get a 28db pad out of those!

 

[blackzarg]

I think the whole Head-Fi community (and Hi-Fi audio people in general) now know how the Creationalists feel in America. Evolution is taught in schools, and is commonly accepted as fact. You don't have to believe it, but the majority of the population talk about it as fact. You could just let others mind their own business, but it's going to BUG THE HECK OUT OF YOU.
 
Same with headphones. You can let other people buy Skullcandy and Monster, while you yourself use AKG, Denon, and Sennheiser. But seeing the vast majority of the population think highly of Monster, Bose, and Skullcandy is really going to make you upset.
 
 
 
Disclaimer: I believe in evolution, but I'm stepping in their shoes for a sec. This is not intended to start a religious/political debate.

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

Have you tried using IEMs on long trips? Seriously, especially 10+ hour flights. I'd rather not have speakers in my ears for that long.
However, you are correct with all your other points, but sometimes NC is just a better option than tight isolation due to comfort.
 

To me IEMs are way more comfortable than any other type of headphone.  I usually wear my SE530s at least 8 hours straight every day at work and they don't get uncomfortable in the slightest.  Most full size 'phones I've tried start to get slightly annoying after 4 hours, and certainly by 6.  The only full size I think might even come close is the HD800, though I've only heard them at meets and never got to try an extended session with them.  Of course those aren't portable at all.
 
I haven't had a custom IEM so I can't say for sure, but I'd bet they be comfortable enough to wear all day every day.  That's basically what people with hear aids do and it seams to suit them just fine.

 

[baka1969]

I was on a flight recently and what I did almost totally blocked all ambient sound. I wore my RE0 IEMs and on top of that I used my Shure 840 for extra isolation. Worked like a charm.

I took out the IEMs and it's amazing how loud the engine drone really is.

 

[haveblue]

Quote:

To me IEMs are way more comfortable than any other type of headphone.  I usually wear my SE530s at least 8 hours straight every day at work and they don't get uncomfortable in the slightest.  Most full size 'phones I've tried start to get slightly annoying after 4 hours, and certainly by 6.  The only full size I think might even come close is the HD800, though I've only heard them at meets and never got to try an extended session with them.  Of course those aren't portable at all.
 
I haven't had a custom IEM so I can't say for sure, but I'd bet they be comfortable enough to wear all day every day.  That's basically what people with hear aids do and it seams to suit them just fine.

Agreed. I don't have full customs. I have Westone 3's with custom UM56 eartips and I can literally wear them permanently. There is absolutely zero discomfort. I go to bed and fall asleep with them on all the time. But then of course I have gotten very used to sleeping with earplugs in. Having something in my ears doesn't bother me at all, which isn't true for everyone.