[drarthurwells]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerius The PH-12 is not a top-tier amp, not even close. Since that review was written my amp has gotten nice toroidal output transformers and a tube rectified power supply. It is I think close to extracting the full potential of 6SN7 tubes, on a scale of 1-10 it's a bit under 9. The Bada would be about 5.5 or so, nice for the price, but not anywhere near state of the art.

I've owned some real good amps - home as well as headphone - including Stax amps with none of them give me the sound of the Bada PH12 - particularly in regard to forming a 3-D palable tones in empty space that are properly paced on a large soundstage.

I am talking about amps I have owned and listened to for long periods - most of which are not in my signature - not amps of others that I have just auditioned.

I am ready to get another amp in a heartbeat if it beats the Bada. I look forward to the new Eddie Current hybrid as a potential succesor the the Bada.

Those listening to aerius, who has said the Sony SA 5000 lacks detail, about the Bada PH12, may be not getting the best opinion.

The only complaints about the Bada I have ever heard is from those who used it with Grados (with their low impedance) but many other amps yield less than ideal results with Grados.

 

[PFKMan23]

Quote:

Originally Posted by drarthurwells I am talking about amps I have owned and listened to for long periods - most of which are not in my signature - not amps of others that I have just auditioned.

Care to list examples?

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by drarthurwells Those listening to aerius, who has said the Sony SA 5000 lacks detail, about the Bada PH12, may be not getting the best opinion.

He's not the only one who thinks that Art...

sibilant overemphasized treble != detail

...please, deal with the fact that we have a different opinion on the sound of the SA5000 and stop invalidating our opinions because of it.

Frankly, I have not heard the Bada, but have heard aerius' amp... I also trust his ear and opinion as we know eachother personally and have listened to a lot of gear together. Based on that I can hazard a guess that the Bada is not a 'top tier' headphone amp.

Just curious, have you heard any of Mikhail's amps? If so, what did you think of them? What about Ray's stuff? You mentioned Craig's amps [Eddie Current], have you heard them?

 

[tourmaline]

I will get one in a few weeks. Mine is on it's way and i will tell ya what i think of it. I also owned maxed out stax amps etc. Also heard alot of other commercial amps. It could be that the Ph-12 has good synergy with the Esound E5 and less with other cdplayers. I just know from experience that certain equipment sound better in combination with other equipment then others. But to be honest, i doubt that this amp is a high end killer. It could well be that it is a very good amp for the price indeed, but as i said, i'll let you know.


Overemphasized trebble is mistakenly interpreted as extra detail/more detailed! It isn't any more detailed as other trebble but is just louder and hence easier recognized.

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox He's not the only one who thinks that Art... sibilant overemphasized treble != detail ...please, deal with the fact that we have a different opinion on the sound of the SA5000 and stop invalidating our opinions because of it. Frankly, I have not heard the Bada, but have heard aerius' amp... I also trust his ear and opinion as we know eachother personally and have listened to a lot of gear together. Based on that I can hazard a guess that the Bada is not a 'top tier' headphone amp. Just curious, have you heard any of Mikhail's amps? If so, what did you think of them? What about Ray's stuff? You mentioned Craig's amps [Eddie Current], have you heard them?

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline I just know from experience that certain equipment sound better in combination with other equipment then others.

That is for sure, one of the truisms to the hobby.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline It could well be that it is a very good amp for the price indeed.

This is what I would expect. China made products do offer great value. I look forward to your impressions.

 

[aerius]

Quote:

Originally Posted by drarthurwells Those listening to aerius, who has said the Sony SA 5000 lacks detail, about the Bada PH12, may be not getting the best opinion.

That's a funny one coming from a person who claims the SA5000 has more detail than other headphones because it hides details which other headphones reveal and is thus more "true to the source". Right after claiming the SA5000 has more detail because it reveals things which other headphones don't. No folks, that's not a typo, he really does contradict himself repeatedly. Not to mention the claims of "more detailed and neutral than a Stax". Frankly a politician's opinion is more trustworthy & reliable than drathurwells's.

 

[tourmaline]

LOL. having owned a stax i can tell that it is really very detailed and neutral. high and mid are very clean but low end is a bit lacking. I don't think however that something hiding details would be more neutral or realistic.
To me neutral means revealing what is there and not being in it's way. Not adding anything to the signal. If you have that neutral components, details will show by itself. Overemphasizing treble could well unbalance the complete picture of the music. Personally i rather would have somewhat less detailed highs then emphasized if the balance is right. It will just add to listeners fatigue.

"I reject your reality and substitute my own" - Adam Savage

Seems like you are one of the mythbusters now.


Quote:

Originally Posted by aerius That's a funny one coming from a person who claims the SA5000 has more detail than other headphones because it hides details which other headphones reveal and is thus more "true to the source". Right after claiming the SA5000 has more detail because it reveals things which other headphones don't. No folks, that's not a typo, he really does contradict himself repeatedly. Not to mention the claims of "more detailed and neutral than a Stax". Frankly a politician's opinion is more trustworthy & reliable than drathurwells's.

 

[elrod-tom]

OK...last warning. Let's everyone just lighten up and stop with all the nasty back and forth.

 

[drarthurwells]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerius That's a funny one coming from a person who claims the SA5000 has more detail than other headphones because it hides details which other headphones reveal and is thus more "true to the source". Right after claiming the SA5000 has more detail because it reveals things which other headphones don't. No folks, that's not a typo, he really does contradict himself repeatedly. Not to mention the claims of "more detailed and neutral than a Stax". Frankly a politician's opinion is more trustworthy & reliable than drathurwells's.

Where did I ever say that the SA5000 hide things that are revealed by other headphones?

This is what you said when you said the SA5000 lacked detail - I never said it you did.

I have always said the SA5000 was a high resolution headphone with detail revealing sound.

 

[drarthurwells]

deleted - see page 5 for tube advice with Bada PH 12

 

[tbonner1]

Thanks for keeping us updated on your progress with the Bada despite all the sniping attacks. Perhaps why some are reacting so strongly is due to what they perceive as a pre conceived agenda and bias for the Bada and, to a lesser extent, the Sony SA5000 and AKG 701. It is clear (to me) that you have spent much time critically listening to music with the tools we all love on this forum and want to share your knowledge. As a person who has wondered through the audio forest of buying and selling an endless amount of audio gear of the years, I thank you for not withering under all this noise.

I have found drautherwells posts to be very closely aligned with my own findings. It was 30+ years ago Harry Pearson of the Absolute sound introduced the synergistic pairing of the ARC SP3A tube preamp and solid state power amp(GAS Ampzilla). This gave us the tubey sound in the midrange and soundstage but the grip of solid state bass, which correlates to the reports on the Bada PH12, G&W T2.6F and the OK2000 hybrid.

These Chinese amps are relatively inexpensive and represent real value for the headphile. I share your genuine enthusiasm about this new generation of amps and look forward to the future.

 

[bluemeteor]

The real issue with these three fine amps, the issue that we all have to address, is that the Chinese are doing more with Vacuum tubes than anyone in the world and thereby keeping our hobby alive.

Read the blog on the PVC web site - it is really interesting.

 

[chesebert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by drarthurwells These quotes of yours 'tube input; tube amplify; tube driving; field effect transistor power amplification' indicate to me that the three triod tubes of the Bada PH12 are very much involved in the sound output. This is confirmed by significant changes in sound quality that result from tube changes in the three tubes. You can effect more of a tube sound or more of a transistor sound by making such changes - dial your sound. How can this be if, as you say, "...the output device is just FET."? The three tubes are very much involved in sound quality, and thus in amplification, it would seem. The FETs are used in gain amplification. Comments?

OK..reading the Chinese version of description indicated to me that the actual amplifiation stage is FET based and not tube based. the Tube is only used in the input, votage regulation and power stage. Singal amplification is done via FET entirely.

I don't think Chinese amp is anywhere near the quality of the amps we get here even compare to DIY. One reviewer on Erji.net just recnelty compared AM650 (one of the better all tube design) with Xcanv3 and Xcan beat it silly. And I know what Xcan sounds like

(not even close to my Dynahi

 

[tourmaline]

You would be surprised how good this amp sounds. Especially with good tubes it sounds wonderfull. Never heard any amp that gives a realizm that the bada does. The bada sounds lots better then xcan v3! heard that one myself for a week or so! The bada can reproduce lifelike instruments.
Also owned a very expensive maxed out stax tubes amp wich never sounded as nice as the bada. With the bada it's like listening to the real instrument up close. Some people like more detail, wich most of the time means loss of tonal body! hence sounding lean or dry!

The fets give it speed and accurasy and the tubes give it body! You will never get that rich tone with a transistor amp! Not even the dynahi!

That is just alot of nonsense! They use the same parts as you guys do but are cheaper per hour, that's why they make cheap good amps!

Also alot of good dacs are comming from china beating alot of americans in that pricerange!


The only other real great headphone amp i think is worth owning is the cary audio 300 sei, wich is the best tube headphone amp, period! but also very expensive, at 4000 dollars. Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert OK..reading the Chinese version of description indicated to me that the actual amplifiation stage is FET based and not tube based. the Tube is only used in the input, votage regulation and power stage. Singal amplification is done via FET entirely. I don't think Chinese amp is anywhere near the quality of the amps we get here even compare to DIY. One reviewer on Erji.net just recnelty compared AM650 (one of the better all tube design) with Xcanv3 and Xcan beat it silly. And I know what Xcan sounds like (not even close to my Dynahi

 

[drarthurwells]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert OK..reading the Chinese version of description indicated to me that the actual amplifiation stage is FET based and not tube based. the Tube is only used in the input, votage regulation and power stage. Singal amplification is done via FET entirely.

[size=x-small]So, what is your point here? Tube changes in the Bada serve to drastically alter the sound, even more so that in many all tube amps. I am always amazed at this. I can make it sound like a solid state amp or a really lush and liquid all tube amp by using certain tubes.[/size]


Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert I don't think Chinese amp is anywhere near the quality of the amps we get here even compare to DIY. One reviewer on Erji.net just recnelty compared AM650 (one of the better all tube design) with Xcanv3 and Xcan beat it silly. And I know what Xcan sounds like (not even close to my Dynahi

[size=x-small]Chinese amps can be world class. NTA makes a KT88 based Class A amp that Hyperion markets for about $3000 - nearly 10 times as much as the Chinese price - an award winning amp. Mark Levinson sells Chinese-made amps in the west under his Rose brand. No amp at the same price can surpass the Ming Da MC66AE for $325, the G&W T2.6F for $355 or the Bada PH12 for $425 (prices for new, shipped, paypal fee includedamps), and many (if not all) amps at twice these prices are not as good.[/size]