[HeadphoneAddict]

Mike, sometimes I think maybe you should have gotten the original DACport with the headphone amp and volume control built-in, stead of the LX.  Although it wont drive the LCD-2 as powerfully as a high voltage balanced PB2, I think it would make you quite happy with your IEM and most full size phones.  I just love the mids with mine, and I don't think the mids would be any worse with or without the amp section.  And, from your descriptions I think the original DACport could be more like a mix of the DACport LX mids and the DF highs, with the bass of both.
 
Without having heard one, I am guessing that the DACport LX must be crisper and more detailed like the DACmini, so I look forward to reading your impressions in that arena as well.  In my case the Pico and D4 DACs are slightly brighter than my original DACport, when feeding another amp.  And based on all of your impressions posted, I think my original DACport is maybe a little darker and smoother than your LX (like the DF).  So maybe not as good to feed the darker sounding PB2, but an improvement when directly driving something like your SE530 or feeding an SR-71b which isn't too dark.  My particular SE530 are in a custom shell and can be a little sibilant at times, and my DACport does tame that a bit.  And, my DACport sounds good with all of my custom IEM, whether UE11Pro, ES3X, JH13Pro or ES5.  So I imagine it would suit your SE530 well too.
 
It's always difficult when working through component synergy, where you are forced to pick your source to accommodate a colored amp, or pick your amp to accommodate a colored source - or pick bright gear to lift up a dark headphone and visa versa, and pick powerful gear at the expense of detail to drive an inefficient phone.  But I think the original DACport was still a good place to start.  Maybe the DF is a good place for a lot of people to start with too - you get it and use it now, and add to it later with a properly matched amp and phones when you can afford it..
 
The DACport also sounds good with LCD-2 and HE-500, but doesn't have quite enough juice to give them the weight and impact you'd want or can get from a desktop amp.  The DACmini is more powerful and better with those, but the balanced SR-71b adds several more DB of headroom and more impact above that (like the PB2).  In a pinch the original DACport works well with full size phones and no amp, especially my HD600.  I saw that you used the PB2 and the Stepdance to drive the LCD-2, but I must have missed it if you wrote about how the DF did driving the LCD-2 directly.  I went back a couple of times to read but it's late and I'm tired.  I'd be interested in hearing how well the DF performs as a DAC/amp combo with full-size phones, for when you don't want to mess with adding amps to the mix.  What I like about the DACport is that I don't need an awkward adapter to listen to full size 1/4" phones, and the adapter to listen to 1/8" IEM is quite small and easy to use.
 
I love the smaller size of the DF and I have gone to Amazon several times and put the DF in my shopping cart.  But not once have I pulled the trigger because I pull out the DACport and listen, and decide that I'd be wasting my money.  That's because I'm at the point now with my gear where I don't just buy everything that I can get my hands on to play with like I used to, but aim mostly for things that I believe will improve the sound, or improve the function over what I have now.  For instance, I only have my uDAC-2 SE or Audioengine D1 because I wanted something small with variable line-out to feed my A2 speakers, but didn't want to have to unplug the speakers every time I wanted to listen to a headphone.  Yet, I still find myself gravitating to the DACport when I'm not using the speakers, and have it plugged in at the same time.

 

[zilch0md]

Larry,
 
I really like the way you have emphasized the impact that components have on each other.  
 
Re-reading my comparison, I have to admit that it gets a bit tedious as I went out of my way to ensure that I was qualifying my impressions in the context of the various chains I tried.  Had I written the comparison for just one component chain, I would have had a lot less to say, but as you've pointed out, synergy cannot be ignored.  
 
Regarding the DACport LX vs. DACport, I've never heard the DACport, but I've read a couple of reviews, including Headfonia Mike's review of the DACport LX, where it's said that it offers more detail than the DACport.  Allegedly, the amp section of the DACport is not ultra-transparent in terms of retaining detail.   I have no idea how significant this lack of transparency is, having never listened to it myself, but judging by your very experienced ears, I'm more curious about the DACport, now.
 
In terms of retaining detail, would you say the DACport is as transparent as your DACmini CX (when using the DACmini's amp)?
 
On using the Dragonfly -> LCD-2 rev.1, it's weak - the Dragonfly's 150mW leaves the LCD-2 with no dynamics - it sounds compressed and there's a loss of detail in the low bass.  I'd even say that there's a loss of bass extension, but I might be imagining that.  It makes sense, given that even a 15V Stepdance, which offers almost seven times as much power as the Dragonfly (~1000mW vs. 150mW), sounds good, but not great in terms of dynamics and bass control with the LCD-2.  Consider that I routinely allow myself to suffer a loss of resolution (that's nowhere near as severe as the less-resolving Schiit Lyr, by the way) to obtain the dynamics offered by the 16V-powered IBasso PB2 with LME49990s and HA5002 buffers.  With ~2500mW, the LCD-2 is enjoying about seventeen times as much power as the Dragonfly can produce, and from what I've read, the LCD-2 would sound all the better at higher power levels - all the while going for an 85.0 dB SPL.   
 
Coincidentally, the first thing I did this morning after making my tea, was to grab my Sennheiser HD280 Pro and plug them straight into the Dragonfly.  They're known for being very efficient and they do sound a lot better on the Dragonfly's 150mW than the LCD-2, in terms of dyanmics, but after just a couple of tracks worth of Con Funk Shun's Best of Con Funk Shun, not for the sake of comparison, but just so that I could enjoy the music, I reached for my 15V Stepdance, inserted it between the Dragonfly and the HD280s (Dragonfly -> 15V Stepdance -> HD280), and snap, das wad I'm talkin' 'bout!  HD280 got me bustin' a move juss sittin' in mah chair!
 
 

 
I'm still listening to that chain at the moment and it works very well.  The 15V Stepdance has more than enough power to make the HD280s strut and the Dragonfly is a great source for that combo.  OK, now I'm in comparison mode.  Dang!  I was groovin' to the funk, but now I'm going to replace the 15V Stepdance and HD280 with SE530 to see what the HD280 has been leaving out... (Dragonfly -> SE530)  Moving my volume slider from 36 to 18...   Oh man...  The SE530s sound so nice with the Dragonfly - way more detail than with the 15V Stepdance -> HD280, with improved bass extension and control.  
 
In fact, I neglected to mention in yesterday's comparison, that my SE530 have never sounded better than they do with the Dragonfly (in my experience, at least, with my tastes, my ears.)   But, I haven't tried them with the 15V Stepdance inserted...  here goes... (Dragonfly -> 15V Stepdance -> SE530)  Moving the volume slider to 100...   Nope!   No improvement that I can hear - in fact with the Stepdance in the chain there's a very slight softening of detail in the highs - no amp is perfectly transparent, not even the Stepdance which comes real close to being perfectly neutral and transparent, in my opinion.  Nope, the Dragonfly's amp does a fine job with the SE530s - no need for external amplification.
 
I just decided to play one of my best recordings for dynamics in the absence of clipping or hard-limited peaks:  Jennifer Warnes'  First We Take Manhattan, from Famous Blue Raincoat - The Songs Of Leonard Cohen:
 
 

 
This track sounds great with the Dragonfly -> SE530!  The SE530 is known for its mids, and again, we're talking about synergy, here - the SE530 is filling in the only hole I've found in the Dragonfly - its somewhat thin mids.  This is a great pairing.
It makes me think I could sell everything and be happy with just a Dragonfly and the SE530.  Did I say that?  

   Sheesh!  I may not sell anything, but it's getting harder and harder not to buy a Dragonfly, now...   In truth, the Dragonfly -> SE530 combo isn't delivering the deep bass than can be had with my 16V PB2 -> LCD-2 rig, of course, and it's brighter, but man, it's really hard to ignore just how awesome this sounds for the size and convenience. 
 
I'm sure other high-end IEMs would sound great, too, as long as they're not power-hungry (like the Etymotic ER4S, among others.)
 
I just went back to Dragonfly -> 15V Stepdance -> SE530, so that I could listen to a few tracks of Famous Blue Raincoat with more power to the SE530.  Again, the Stepdance smooths out the details a bit, but with these very dynamic recordings, having increased the power seven-fold via the Stepdance, I'm not hearing any improvement in bass extension or dynamics - just a slight loss of detail.  
 
Quickly revisiting  yesterday's DACport LX vs. Dragaonfly comparisons, listening to Famous Blue Raincoat now, the DACport LX -> 15V Stepdance -> SE530 combo delivers more detail than the Dragonfly -> 15V Stepdance -> SE530 combo.  The DACport LX is brighter, too.  
 
But I would much rather listen to the very efficient SE530 plugged straight into the Dragonfly.  I'm impressed.  Not so with the HD280s driven by the Dragonfly, and even less so with the LCD-2 on the Dragonfly.
 
OK, one last revisit of yesterday...  DACport LX -> SE530 vs. Dragonfly -> SE530, with Famous Blue Raincoat (matching volume levels):  The DACport LX offers a bit more detail across the spectrum and the mids are more forward with the DACport LX - more like what the SE530 is known for.    Hmmm...  back to the Dragonfly -> SE530.  OK, it's like the difference between a California orange and a Florida orange, but I definitely prefer the SE530's synergy with the Dragonfly.
 
Oh man, I want to stop comparing stuff and just listen to some music...  Dragonfly -> SE530, for now...
 
Mike

 

[longbowbbs]

As with any DAC or AMP the pairing with the right headphones is critical. The DF would have a tough time with the HE-6's but with something like the Senn HD25-1's or the HD650's it is no trouble and a great pairing.
 
Good work Mike!
 
Now go enjoy some music!

 

[Pratt]

So it's $250 for a thumb drive dac/amp? Price it $100 less, give it some air for the electronics to cool so they'll last more than a year and then it might be interesting. What is this, 2008? There is no reason for this thing to cost this much.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Larry,
 
I really like the way you have emphasized the impact that components have on each other...snip...
 
(1) In terms of retaining detail, would you say the DACport is as transparent as your DACmini CX (when using the DACmini's amp)?
 
(1) No, the DACmini CX is more transparent and detailed.  But the DACport competes quite well vs things like the Pico DAC-only, and I like it's natural warmth and tone enough to prefer the DACport over the Pico as a DAC feeding another amp.  I can't say that it's less detailed at all than the Pico DAC, but that it does tend to slightly smooth out the edges in comparison to the Pico DAC which is slightly ruthless at times.  But nothing is really missing.  The DACmini CX is a little more neutral and transparent, like a "wire-with-gain".  That is what I think you seem to be describing with the DACport LX, so they may be very similar.
 
(2) On using the Dragonfly -> LCD-2 rev.1, it's weak - the Dragonfly's 150mW leaves the LCD-2 with no dynamics - it sounds compressed and there's a loss of detail in the low bass.  I'd even say that there's a loss of bass extension, but I might be imagining that.  It makes sense, given that even a 15V Stepdance, which offers almost seven times as much power as the Dragonfly (~1000mW vs. 150mW), sounds good, but not great in terms of dynamics and bass control with the LCD-2.  Consider that I routinely allow myself to suffer a loss of resolution (that's nowhere near as severe as the less-resolving Schiit Lyr, by the way) to obtain the dynamics offered by the 16V-powered IBasso PB2 with LME49990s and HA5002 buffers.  With ~2500mW, the LCD-2 is enjoying about seventeen times as much power as the Dragonfly can produce, and from what I've read, the LCD-2 would sound all the better at higher power levels - all the while going for an 85.0 dB SPL.   
 
(2) I have spent time with both the preproduction and production Stepdance and find that it's pretty good with LCD-2, but when pushed it could sound strained more easily than I liked when driving the LCD-2, and there was a little grain to the sound with that pairing that I didn't get my my Practical Devices XM5.  In terms of synergy, my XM5 amp was my best portable for the LCD-2 until I got my SR-71b. When I heard the SR-71b prototype at RMAF with the LCD-2 I was blown away, and I was one of the 1st to buy the amp when it became available.  So, it's no surprise the DF isn't up to the task of driving the LCD-2.  They are fairly demanding phones in my opinion.  Many amps can sound good tonally with LCD-2, but fail to deliver the punch when needed.
 
Coincidentally, the first thing I did this morning after making my tea, was to grab my Sennheiser HD280 Pro and plug them straight into the Dragonfly.  They're known for being very efficient and they do sound a lot better on the Dragonfly's 150mW than the LCD-2, in terms of dyanmics, but after just a couple of tracks worth of Con Funk Shun's Best of Con Funk Shun, not for the sake of comparison, but just so that I could enjoy the music, I reached for my 15V Stepdance, inserted it between the Dragonfly and the HD280s (Dragonfly -> 15V Stepdance -> HD280), and snap, das wad I'm talkin' 'bout!  HD280 got me bustin' a move juss sittin' in mah chair!
 
 

 
I'm still listening to that chain at the moment and it works very well.  The 15V Stepdance has more than enough power to make the HD280s strut and the Dragonfly is a great source for that combo.  OK, now I'm in comparison mode.  Dang!  I was groovin' to the funk, but now I'm going to replace the 15V Stepdance and HD280 with SE530 to see what the HD280 has been leaving out... (Dragonfly -> SE530)  Moving my volume slider from 36 to 18...   Oh man...  The SE530s sound so nice with the Dragonfly - way more detail than with the 15V Stepdance -> HD280, with improved bass extension and control.  
 
...snip
 
(3) More proof that synergy is important.  
 
(4) Further down was evidence that excellent gear on paper isn't always the best choice if the synergy isn't there.  It sounds like DACport LX + Stepdance + SE530 > Dragonfly + SE530 >> Dragonfly + Stepdance + SE530.  This is where you took an excellent amp/IEM combo and made it sound worse with the wrong DAC/source.  Could it be that the last rig of the three is worse due to double amping?  No way to know for sure.

 

[mtkversion]

Quote:

So it's $250 for a thumb drive dac/amp? Price it $100 less, give it some air for the electronics to cool so they'll last more than a year and then it might be interesting. What is this, 2008? There is no reason for this thing to cost this much.

 
$250 is a great deal when you put things into perspective ...
 

 
 
These cables are 12ft. in length and simply carry current from an amp to a speaker .... $21,000.
 
You could buy 8 of them in what you'd pay in sales tax for those cables. 

 

[Currawong]

Quote:

So it's $250 for a thumb drive dac/amp? Price it $100 less, give it some air for the electronics to cool so they'll last more than a year and then it might be interesting. What is this, 2008? There is no reason for this thing to cost this much.

 
I reckon you should make the same $100k outlay as Gordon did and make your own for $100 less. 

 

[longbowbbs]

Bob Harley used the DF in his $100K home rig for his review in the October 2012 issue of The Absolute Sound....He loved it. Interesting to see which piece of gear in that system we would consider overpriced!
 
Also, Neil Gader of TAS named the DF the most significant new product at T.H.E. Show in Newport Beach:  http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/the-show-newport-beach/   

 

[Currawong]

HeadphoneAddict: I felt the L3 didn't improve the results with the Dragonfly as much as I expected, so it could be double-amping indeed. Ignoring orthos and maybe high-impedance cans for the moment (I don't have any suitable handy to try) I feel the Dragonfly is simply best as a standalone DAC and amp. It'd be interesting if someone found an amp it combines with well.

 

[zilch0md]

Larry,
 
Quote:

 

(4) Further down was evidence that excellent gear on paper isn't always the best choice if the synergy isn't there.  It sounds like DACport LX + Stepdance + SE530 > Dragonfly + SE530 >> Dragonfly + Stepdance + SE530.  This is where you took an excellent amp/IEM combo and made it sound worse with the wrong DAC/source.  Could it be that the last rig of the three is worse due to double amping?  No way to know for sure.

 
As I wrote in the post you're quoting:
 
 

But I would much rather listen to the very efficient SE530 plugged straight into the Dragonfly.

 
 
Thus, the ranking goes like this, for the various SE530 combinations I've tried, from best to worst:
 
Dragonfly -> SE530
DACport LX -> 15V Stepdance -> SE530
Dragonfly -> 15V Stepdance -> SE530
 
But your punchline is correct - that even with a great amp, when power wasn't needed (as it would be with less efficient headphones), it was best to use the Dragonfly without an external amp.
 
Thanks,
 
Mike

 

[bobeau]

Quote:

HeadphoneAddict: I felt the L3 didn't improve the results with the Dragonfly as much as I expected, so it could be double-amping indeed. Ignoring orthos and maybe high-impedance cans for the moment (I don't have any suitable handy to try) I feel the Dragonfly is simply best as a standalone DAC and amp. It'd be interesting if someone found an amp it combines with well.

 
There could definitely be some confirmation bias at play here, but everything I've thrown at my DF -> O2 combo it either improved the sound (EPH-100/FXD80/Ed8/TP1) or produced no audible difference when compared to the DF out (GR07MKII/JVC S500).

 

[zilch0md]

Quote:

So it's $250 for a thumb drive dac/amp? Price it $100 less, give it some air for the electronics to cool so they'll last more than a year and then it might be interesting. What is this, 2008? There is no reason for this thing to cost this much.

 
In support of your position Pratt, let me make a more realistic comparison:
 
 
For $399.00, you can buy this USB DAC + Amp:
 
 

 
 
 
Or for $249.00, you can buy this USB DAC + Amp:
 
 

 
 
Independent of differences in SQ, differences in Watts RMS output, differences in size, weight, synergy with various chains, convenience and style...
 
Going only on component count, as hard as I try to imagine that the Dragonfly has a lot of components inside, looking at these two photos, there haven't been enough advances in miniaturization in the past two years to explain the dramatic difference in size.  
 
Thus, I think the Dragonfly is a poor value relative to the DACport, considering only the component count, but it's not necessarily overpriced.
 
Everything is worth precisely what people are willing to pay.  And people are snapping up these Dragonfly's at a hectic clip, from what I can tell.  More power to them -  we're fortunate AudioQuest didn't set the retail price any higher.  
 
The problem with saying that the DACport is a better value on component count, alone, is that this statement ignores everything else that should influence a purchase decision.
 
Mike

 

[crzycuyler]

Quote:

 
In support of your position Pratt, let me make a more realistic comparison:
 
 
For $399.00, you can buy this USB DAC + Amp:
 
 

 
 
 
Or for $249.00, you can buy this USB DAC + Amp:
 
 

 
 
 

lmao, I could have sworn you were going to use this comparison for praise of the DF. You'll see it all on these here forums

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

If I wasn't going to miss my DACport so much I'd offer to send it to Mike to try out for a little while.  
 
Maybe he could come to RMAF next month and try it out and compare it to his LX feeding an amp.  

 

[longbowbbs]

Quote:

lmao, I could have sworn you were going to use this comparison for praise of the DF. You'll see it all on these here forums

 
I could give a rip about component count. I am interested in sound quality. Burson just made a big deal about reducing the parts count in their new Soloist compared to the 160. Output is the point, not price per part.