[Kenobi]

Has anybody seen the comparison here pitting the Ref 7 with the Resolution Audio Cantana ($6K) and the Prism Sound Orpheus ($4.5K)? 
 
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Heads-DAC-not-mentioned-much-here
 
Have fun reading,
 
Kenobi

 

[Nifrigel]

Hello guys!
I'm planning my new rig and I have a question about ACSS vs Diamond Output. I've decided that my future rig should be balanced and based on R-2R DAC (no Sabre or Sigma-Delta) and HiFiMan HE-6 headphones. As for the amp, I currently have single-ended full MOSFET amp from my local (Russia, Novosibirsk) producer MS Audio Laboratory, which outclassed both Meier Concerto and AMB M^3. I want MS Audio to make a custom fully balanced version of this amp, optimized for HE-6. It will probably be something similar to well-known AMB Beta22. And here comes the DAC...
As I understand, Reference 7 implies the use of ACSS, which is Audio-GD feature that works only with Audio-GD amplifiers like Phoenix. So, if I use non-Audio-GD amp through XLR, I can't achieve maximum of Ref's 7 sound quality. On the other hand, Ref 8 doesn't have ACSS, so there is no difference whether I use Audio-GD or non-Audio-GD amp. But even in this case, which exact amp is being used still might be of a vital importance. I doubt if Ref's 8 output stage suits well for a MOSFET amp. I am a total noob in this stuff. Could you please help me to make right desicion. By the way: it really doesn't matter for me if it's "neutral" or "musical" flavor - I like them both, as long as it's PCM1704.
Best regards, Igor.
PS: I know, that both Ref 7 and 8 are nearly out of stock, but my local reseller still have them in stock so I can buy each one.

 

[purrin]

Quote:

PS: I know, that both Ref 7 and 8 are nearly out of stock, but my local reseller still have them in stock so I can buy each one.

You should see if you can get a listen from your local reseller from both the REF 7 and 8 on your current amp (which I assume your new custom balanced design will be based on). ACSS not withstanding, the DACs do sound different. I've heard fairly strong opinions both ways on whether to go neutral (REF7) and musical (REF8).
 
Since you are getting a custom amp built, maybe you can ask your builder to accept ACSS / CAST inputs and do the I/V conversion in the amps. 

 

[Nifrigel]

Quote:

You should see if you can get a listen from your local reseller from both the REF 7 and 8 on your current amp (which I assume your new custom balanced design will be based on). ACSS not withstanding, the DACs do sound different. I've heard fairly strong opinions both ways on whether to go neutral (REF7) and musical (REF8).

 
Since you are getting a custom amp built, maybe you can ask your builder to accept ACSS / CAST inputs and do the I/V conversion in the amps. 

I've only heard Reference 8 and DAC19 with my current single-ended amp (and also with DarkVoice 337) and Beyerdynamic T1 headphones. I prefered Ref's 8 sound signature. I've heard neither Ref 7, nor any of them in balanced setup. As for your suggestion, I'm afraid that if ACSS is Audio-GD-only feature, other producers won't be able to use it. Though, I should ask them...

 

[Currawong]

You may as well just get the full Audio-gd rig in that case, then you don't have to worry about the cables at all.

 

[les_garten]

I occasionally run my REF 1 into my DV-337SE.  It sounds absolutely killer.  I use all 3 outputs on my REF1, just not all at once.  Don't get too hung up on the ACSS/CAST deal.  It would be nice to have it as an "option" for future growth and use.  Unless you buy a Krell or A-GD amp or Pre-amp, you most likely won't run across a manufacturer to use the ACSS/CAST output.
 

 
Quote:

I've only heard Reference 8 and DAC19 with my current single-ended amp (and also with DarkVoice 337) and Beyerdynamic T1 headphones. I prefered Ref's 8 sound signature. I've heard neither Ref 7, nor any of them in balanced setup. As for your suggestion, I'm afraid that if ACSS is Audio-GD-only feature, other producers won't be able to use it. Though, I should ask them...

 

[Nada]

With this discussion of the Reference 7 versus the Reference 8 I wonder if there is anyone who has heard them side by side and can add some comments about their similarities and differences?
 

 

[jimmychan]

To full utilitize the Audio-GD equipment, the ACSS connection and equipment has to be used.
 
The RCA or XLR output is only 80% Sound Quality of ACSS.

 

[regal]

Quote:

To full utilitize the Audio-GD equipment, the ACSS connection and equipment has to be used.
 
The RCA or XLR output is only 80% Sound Quality of ACSS.

Rediculous,  first of all less than half of Audio-GD equipment even has ACSS.  Where did you pull the 80% figure from,  I would love to know.

 

[sokolov91]

Quote:

Quote:

To full utilitize the Audio-GD equipment, the ACSS connection and equipment has to be used.
 
The RCA or XLR output is only 80% Sound Quality of ACSS.

Rediculous,  first of all less than half of Audio-GD equipment even has ACSS.  Where did you pull the 80% figure from,  I would love to know.

We are discussion audio at head-fi... does he need to have any justification whatsoever to make these claims? Nope! Actually, if he does testing in order to be able to factually make sure claims (assuming they are true), he will be banned for voiding the rules.

 

[les_garten]

Did you work that out with a Slide Rule?
 
 
Quote:

To full utilitize the Audio-GD equipment, the ACSS connection and equipment has to be used.
 
The RCA or XLR output is only 80% Sound Quality of ACSS.

 

[les_garten]

He got that info from KW...
 
I don't subscribe to any of the this is 8000% better than that is stuff though...
 
I don't know how anybody can quantify that and state it as a percent.
 
Quote:

Rediculous,  first of all less than half of Audio-GD equipment even has ACSS.  Where did you pull the 80% figure from,  I would love to know.

 

[regal]

I didn't mean to be curt its just that folks reading a post like that may just avoid buying an Audio-gd DAC not owning an Audio-gd amp if they believe such silliness .  

 

[sokolov91]

Quote:

I didn't mean to be curt its just that folks reading a post like that may just avoid buying an Audio-gd DAC not owning an Audio-gd amp if they believe such silliness .  

Oh i know, I just used it as a chance for my personal agenda >: ). you are doing the right thing... to not buy one of the dacs simply because it has ACSS is indeed silly.

 

[spyder187]

Another question. I'm very close to ordering the Reference 7.
 
If I will almost 100% not ever make a balanced system, should i still get the Reference 7 (even though I'm just using single ended)?